Western Sydney Airport (WSA) Rapid Bus Routes - Campbelltown, Liverpool and Penrith

[boxythingy]

Just thought I'd start a new thread for anticipated discussion about new bus routes which would provide direct public transport links from Campbelltown, Liverpool and Penrith until more established rapid rail transit is built and operational.

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projec ... ern-sydney

Given that this trio of suburban centres have been named, I am praying that it won't be a single route from Campbelltown to Liverpool via WSA/Bradfield on the way out to Penrith.

It currently takes too long to travel by bus from the Campbelltown area during trackwork to neighbouring Liverpool because it doesn't use the highway.

[boronia]

Isn't there some dispute over who is going to pay for these. I read that the Feds are back-pedalling on a previous agreement to provide funding?

[Stu]

NSW Government press release.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... ern-sydney


TfNSW webpage.
New bus services for Western Sydney.

Reviewed 2 May 2024.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projec ... ern-sydney

Buses will run: every 30 minutes, 5am to 10pm daily.
Liverpool to Bradfield, via Airport. 67 minutes
Campbelltown to Airport, via Bradfield. 66 minutes
Penrith to Bradfield, via Airport. 60 minutes
Mt Druitt to Bradfield, via Airport. 60 minutes
Liverpool to Airport via Leppington and Bradfield. 55 minutes

[swtt]

NSW Government press release.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... ern-sydney


TfNSW webpage.
New bus services for Western Sydney.

Reviewed 2 May 2024.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projec ... ern-sydney

Buses will run: every 30 minutes, 5am to 10pm daily.
Liverpool to Bradfield, via Airport. 67 minutes
Campbelltown to Airport, via Bradfield. 66 minutes
Penrith to Bradfield, via Airport. 60 minutes
Mt Druitt to Bradfield, via Airport. 60 minutes
Liverpool to Airport via Leppington and Bradfield. 55 minutes

That's neither frequent nor rapid

[tonyp]

That's neither frequent nor rapid

They're appalling, but they reinforce how much we need all the metro connections.

The list doesn't even mention the "missing link" from Tallawong to the Airport. That's going to be towards two hours as currently proposed via Penrith. They really need to get that Daniels Road bus link going and have a reasonably quick bus link between the metros at Tallawong and St Marys. The metros will then take care of the speed.

[swtt]

All we can hope is that the SWRL is ever extended to the WSA ASAP. At least the T2 Leppington line gets a nice 15 min frequency all day (as a minimum).

[tonyp]

[Geo101]

NSW Government press release.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... ern-sydney


TfNSW webpage.
New bus services for Western Sydney.

Reviewed 2 May 2024.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projec ... ern-sydney

Buses will run: every 30 minutes, 5am to 10pm daily.
Liverpool to Bradfield, via Airport. 67 minutes
Campbelltown to Airport, via Bradfield. 66 minutes
Penrith to Bradfield, via Airport. 60 minutes
Mt Druitt to Bradfield, via Airport. 60 minutes
Liverpool to Airport via Leppington and Bradfield. 55 minutes

That's neither frequent nor rapid

From trip planner...

Liverpool to Bradfield, via Airport. 67 minutes
(Liverpool to Sydney Domestic 47 minutes)

Campbelltown to Airport, via Bradfield. 66 minutes
(Campbelltown to Sydney Domestic 47 minutes)

Penrith to Bradfield, via Airport. 60 minutes
(Penrith to Sydney Domestic 1h 4min BMT express / 1h 15min normal)

Mt Druitt to Bradfield, via Airport. 60 minutes
(Mt Druitt to Sydney Domestic 1h 1min)

Yep, and the big kicker is that driving from Parramatta CBD to SYD/YSSY is currently 30 minutes, probably be 25 minutes when the Sydney Gateway opens!

[tonyp]

Not only that, the proposed bus routes starting at the Western line don't make any sense. The journey times are over an hour and the services are half-hourly, whereas the metro will take 15 minutes (20 to Bradfield) and every several minutes.

If you are coming from Penrith, it's quicker to catch the Western line to St Marys (10 minutes) and then the metro (total less than 30 minutes) and, from Mt Druitt, 5 minutes by train to St Marys and then metro (total less than 25 minutes). There should also be an express bus route from Rouse Hill/Tallawong to St Marys via the proposed Daniels Rd busway.

It makes sense to optimise the use of the metro. What are they thinking with some of these bus routes? And electric buses too, whose range will be challenged over these long routes. I think it's simply about Minns promising these bus routes (and with electric buses) at the election and it hasn't been thought through. I hope people at Penrith and Mt Druitt will quickly realise that it's much faster by train and ignore the buses.

[boronia]

I doubt the buses would be running non-stop between stations and the airport, there is plenty of potential passenger catchment along the routes, who might prefer not to have to go to stations.

As most of the routes start near bus depots, there would seem to be ample opportunity to recharge during the day if necessary. They might even get smart and provide charging facilities at the airport or Bradfield.

[tonyp]

They were promoted as "BRT" during the election, which implies fast and not many stops.

From the southern side too, it's going to be much faster using the metro, simply because the road approach to the airport is from the north (Elizabeth Drive). It'll be far quicker to get off at Bradfield and finish the final leg in 5 minutes, but at least the routes seem to recognise this - 15 minutes from Oran Park to Bradfield, 10 minutes from Leppington to Bradfield. I don't know why they're even running the buses through to the airport. The much vaunted BRT from Liverpool via extension of the T Way onto a new busway on 15th Avenue has degenerated into more than an hour via various existing roads. It would be quicker to get a train from Liverpool to Leppington (20 minutes), 10 minutes to Bradfield, then 5 minutes by metro into the airport, even with interchange times.

It seems odd that they're not optimising the use of the metro, which offers far faster and more frequent services than buses can.

[Linto63]

Looks like some people haven't bother to read the document properly and are carrying on as if the services proposed are express services along the line of SkyBus in Melbourne or the former Airport Express that ran to Mascot until 2000. The document is crystal clear that it is about services that will commence before the airport opens.

The proposed services are primarily aimed at residents of the area, from where the airport workforce are expected to be drawn, in the lead up to the airport opening, not services for airport passengers. The reason that they are proposed to start from railway stations is that they will likely be extensions or variations of existing region 1, 2 and 3 services.

As for the hysteria about electric buses, Busways and Transit Systems already have these type of vehicles in their fleet, so it is quite feasible that these will be used given that they already operate on services out of Liverpool, Leppington, Mount Druitt and Penrith. The document doesn't suggest that new buses will be specifically purchased for these routes, meaning a mix of existing diesel and electrics are likely to be used.

These routes will be like the 350 and 420 are to Mascot, i.e. they operate to service the areas surrounding the airport, not as a means of people to get to the airport from Bondi Junction or Burwood. Unless they are trying to avoid the access fee, people use the train.

When the airport does open, most people will travel by the Sydney Trains network and change at St Marys. There has been a suggestion that the T5 service may be expanded to operate alternatively from Campbelltown and Leppington to Penrith and Schofields once WSA opens.

[tonyp]

The buses still aren't going to be the quickest way to get to the airport precinct by public transport, even for workers. It's not like they're going to serve any additional aerotropolis destinations not served by the metro.

[Linto63]

Depends on where you are coming from.

[Campbelltown busboy]

Looks like some people haven't bother to read the document properly and are carrying on as if the services proposed are express services along the line of SkyBus in Melbourne or the former Airport Express that ran to Mascot until 2000. The document is crystal clear that it is about services that will commence before the airport opens.

The proposed services are primarily aimed at residents of the area, from where the airport workforce are expected to be drawn, in the lead up to the airport opening, not services for airport passengers. The reason that they are proposed to start from railway stations is that they will likely be extensions or variations of existing region 1, 2 and 3 services.

As for the hysteria about electric buses, Busways and Transit Systems already have these type of vehicles in their fleet, so it is quite feasible that these will be used given that they already operate on services out of Liverpool, Leppington, Mount Druitt and Penrith. The document doesn't suggest that new buses will be specifically purchased for these routes, meaning a mix of existing diesel and electrics are likely to be used.

These routes will be like the 350 and 420 are to Mascot, i.e. they operate to service the areas surrounding the airport, not as a means of people to get to the airport from Bondi Junction or Burwood. Unless they are trying to avoid the access fee, people use the train.

When the airport does open, most people will travel by the Sydney Trains network and change at St Marys. There has been a suggestion that the T5 service may be expanded to operate alternatively from Campbelltown and Leppington to Penrith and Schofields once WSA opens.

region 3 route 801 already terminates at the new airport but it only runs in the peaks

[Transtopic]

The business case for the WSA metro states that it would only have 880 passengers per hour in the peak direction in the early years. With 15tph, that equates to around 60 passengers per train or 20 passengers per carriage in a 3 car train. It's no wonder that the focus has now been changed to extension of the SWRL and conversion to metro, when it was previously given a low priority.

[Stu]

The surrounding suburbs around Western Sydney Airport in South Western Sydney towards Campbelltown will experience growth in public transport, maybe a new bus depot will be required somewhere in this part of Sydney.

[swtt]

The business case for the WSA metro states that it would only have 880 passengers per hour in the peak direction in the early years. With 15tph, that equates to around 60 passengers per train or 20 passengers per carriage in a 3 car train. It's no wonder that the focus has now been changed to extension of the SWRL and conversion to metro, when it was previously given a low priority.

But with luggage?

Good to see a change in focus to SWRL extension.

[boronia]

The business case for the WSA metro states that it would only have 880 passengers per hour in the peak direction in the early years. With 15tph, that equates to around 60 passengers per train or 20 passengers per carriage in a 3 car train. It's no wonder that the focus has now been changed to extension of the SWRL and conversion to metro, when it was previously given a low priority.

Do you think this would warrant a train every 4 minutes?

[Transtopic]

The business case for the WSA metro states that it would only have 880 passengers per hour in the peak direction in the early years. With 15tph, that equates to around 60 passengers per train or 20 passengers per carriage in a 3 car train. It's no wonder that the focus has now been changed to extension of the SWRL and conversion to metro, when it was previously given a low priority.

But with luggage?

Good to see a change in focus to SWRL extension.

Apparently the trains on the WSA Metro will be wider than the current metro stock with provision for luggage. Hence why they will be incompatible, as well as having different power sources (25kv AC v 1.5kv DC).

I have always maintained that the SWRL extension to the WSA Terminal as part of the Sydney Trains network should have taken precedence over the current WSA Metro Line from St Marys, which could be built later when the passenger demand was warranted. I expect that the patronage on the SWRL extension would be much higher, which would also include a more direct a faster rail link to the CBD, and Parramatta via an extended Cumberland Line. It doesn't have to be metro.

A business case is being undertaken for extension of the SWRL from Leppington to Bradfield and conversion of the whole line from Glenfield to metro. It has mistakenly been assumed by many that it would link directly with the metro line from St Marys at Bradfield, but I've never been convinced that this is the intention. The two lines are incompatible, with the WSA Metro from St Marys being restricted to 4 car trains and a different power source, similar to connecting with Metro Northwest.

The just released Federal Budget confirms this, with the allocation of funding for planning for extension of the WSA metro line to Macarthur, which was always the intended route.

With the Minns Government not supporting the extension of Metro West to Bradfield or the C&SW Metro from Bankstown to Glenfield via Liverpool, it brings into question the viability of converting an extended SWRL to metro. It could end up as a stranded asset. The best outcome would be to extend the SWRL as part of the Sydney Trains network, which was the original intention, but given a low priority, which I suggest was for ideological reasons.

[Transtopic]

The business case for the WSA metro states that it would only have 880 passengers per hour in the peak direction in the early years. With 15tph, that equates to around 60 passengers per train or 20 passengers per carriage in a 3 car train. It's no wonder that the focus has now been changed to extension of the SWRL and conversion to metro, when it was previously given a low priority.

Do you think this would warrant a train every 4 minutes?

No, it certainly wouldn't until the corridor reaches a critical mass to warrant it. But that's what we now have.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, an expanded bus network linking with the major regional centres could provide an adequate service connecting with WSA until the North-South Metro is justified. In the meantime, a SWRL extension would be far more useful.