Safer Freight Package - Trucks can now be 2.55m

[moa999]

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/ ... -australia

From 1 October trucks with additional safety features are now allowed to be 2.55m which opens up more import options.

Doesn't seem to apply to buses where it would also add options.

[1whoknows]

Lets wait and see. There will doubtless be heavy lobbying from the European manufacturers to allow 2.55m Citaros etc to come here. Presumaby the same safety features coud be added to buses if not already included.

[eddy]

It was a worry when Bob Hawke reduced car protection and we could not compete with our wages and conditions and I heard it was too hard to put tariffs on again so we started the ITO to stop “dumping” because the Australian public would not object to that.

Now we are protecting Qantas pilots etc. from overseas competition and our 2.5m wide rule was just to protect our 200 body builders although they say they are set up to build 2.5m but I think it is just a way to stop another factory going overseas where it is a race to the bottom.

I know we love powerful European trucks and they are all going 2.55 m wide but our trailers will stay 2.5m and I think our buses will too to protect our bus factories but it will be interesting if the rigid trucks are 2.55m

At least we are allowed to keep our flat mirrors because the curved ones are dangerous being unable to judge distances.

We should not have agreed to have the EU to call the shots.

[Linto63]

There will doubtless be heavy lobbying from the European manufacturers to allow 2.55m Citaros etc to come here.

Except Mercedes-Benz has recentky 'withdrawn from the Australian market'.

[tonyp]

Now that buses (and soon trucks) are moving to electric propulsion, it's in our interests to provide some protection to local industry, because, after generations of relying on imported chassis, this is finally something we can do ourselves here. In any case, European and Chinese manufacturers (except Mercedes) seem to have had no issue supplying their electric chassis at 2.5 metres. We'd have to ask whether gaining an extra 5 cm on the aisle (if that) outweighs the benefit of building up production of integral buses in Australia.

[eddy]

Now that buses (and soon trucks) are moving to electric propulsion, it's in our interests to provide some protection to local industry, because, after generations of relying on imported chassis, this is finally something we can do ourselves here. In any case, European and Chinese manufacturers (except Mercedes) seem to have had no issue supplying their electric chassis at 2.5 metres. We'd have to ask whether gaining an extra 5 cm on the aisle (if that) outweighs the benefit of building up production of integral buses in Australia.

Tony, balance is my favorite word, once I went to Moruya with one pallet and even though there was a forklift there I had to wait 20 minutes for the driver to come back with the key, when I originally got my forklift and loader ticket it cost nothing and was for life but now you have to get a photo taken and pay $50 every five years and you know how reluctant we are to try new ideas in case someone laughs.

[1whoknows]

Mercedes withdrew precisely because they could not market their wider models here. If the wider buses are allowed, and that is by no means confirmed as yet, I would expect them to return.

[boronia]

A problem in many parts of Sydney is that traffic lanes are barely able to accommodate 2.5 width. Going wider just creates more safety problems.

[ScaniaGrenda]

although they say they are set up to build 2.5m but I think it is just a way to stop another factory going overseas where it is a race to the bottom.

It possibly seems ridiculous but if there is concerns in regards to this possibly sending local body builders out of business, is it out of the realms to have Mercedes-Benz for example to supply the shells & chassis for their integral builds and Custom & Volgren finish them off locally once they arrive here? That way there's still being work done here and it's not all going off shore.

I know we did this with the O405NH Citaros (The CNG ones for STA)

A problem in many parts of Sydney is that traffic lanes are barely able to accommodate 2.5 width. Going wider just creates more safety problems.

In that case it would only make sense that the 5cm wider buses can only legally operate within in certain areas, say Inner Sydney CBD where there is plenty of bus lanes around and width shouldn't be too much of a concern or if the state government and local councils pull their heads out of the sand build more dedicated bus only roads to accommodate this. I don't know too much about the T-way network but maybe around there too?

The release says they won't apply the changes to buses but something tells me that's only a matter of time before it is re-reviewed and the change is also applied to buses to go 2.55m. When it'll be can't say for certain, may be another 20 or 30 years although considering they've just practically announced this change for Trucks it's silly to leave buses prohibited to 2.5m. I just wouldn't be expecting the change anytime soon.

[boronia]

THe only reason we don't build 2.55 in Australia is because there is no market for them. Local body builders could put up a 2.55 body just as easily as a 2.5. Most chassis, or subframes, are easily adaptable to either width.

What sort of operator's nightmare would result from having two different widths, some of which were restricted?

And councils are not responsible for building bus lanes.

[Merc1107]

What sort of operator's nightmare would result from having two different widths, some of which were restricted?

I seem to recall some of Adelaide's MAN SL200s were actually overwidth, but not sure what sort of hurdles they had to jump through to get them registered (the STA being Government presumable helped), or keep them registered throughout their lives. Not to mention any restrictions placed on their usage.

[tonyp]

I read in the news yesterday that SA intends to seek exemption from the NHVR regs to enable electric trucks to exceed their axle load restrictions. It only applies to state roads, I imagine because councils would be kicking up a stink at the additional road repairs that will inevitably follow. Easing of axle load restrictions would help the commuter bus sector a lot more than 5 cm extra width, but be prepared for the roads to get a battering, as if having standard cars now weighing as much as an SUV because of the batteries isn't enough.

It highlights the blind stupidity of the rush into battery vehicles, nowhere more than for buses where potential passenger capacity is reduced by around 20 and trucks where the payload has to be reduced, unless rules are bent like in SA. In Europe, they're trying to retain their passenger capacity by having opportunity charging while in service, at the cost of downtime. Little wonder that the existing trolleybus sector is now holding firm and starting to grow again.

[Linto63]

Adelaide bought over width buses for many years. Leyland Worldmasters were narrowed for Sydney and Melbourne operators in the 1970s, while AEC Swift and Volvo B59s were narrowed in large numbers for Queensland operators in the 1990s.

[boronia]

Adelaide bought over width buses for many years. Leyland Worldmasters were narrowed for Sydney and Melbourne operators in the 1970s, while AEC Swift and Volvo B59s were narrowed in large numbers for Queensland operators in the 1990s.

I recall these buses were designed to allow easy narrowing for second lives.

[Linto63]

Given that most of the latter were primarily for school operators, unlikely to have been an expensive operation as there were plenty of other ex government operator buses of similar age available at the same time that didn't need modification.

[eddy]

Basically every Australian pays more every time we protect one section and the only way to compete with the world is to try new ideas.

[boronia]

Given that most of the latter were primarily for school operators, unlikely to have been an expensive operation as there were plenty of other ex government operator buses of similar age available at the same time that didn't need modification.

A lot of MTT Worldmasters ended up with route operators in NSW.

[Lt. Commander Data]

I seem to recall some of Adelaide's MAN SL200s were actually overwidth, but not sure what sort of hurdles they had to jump through to get them registered (the STA being Government presumable helped), or keep them registered throughout their lives. Not to mention any restrictions placed on their usage.

There was a blanket Government Gazette allowing the use of buses up to 2.6m wide in metropolitan Adelaide. This excluded the Adelaide Hills, and outer southern suburbs which also had some narrow hilly roads. This Gazette was only replaced fairly recently when the NHVL overruled it.

[Swift]

They should have 5m width buses used on multi lane trunk routes designed to take up two lanes like the tarmac buses. That way you can have doors at the front and rear as well. They'll make a good alternative to a bendy or decker and soak up a whole heap of passengers allowing lots of standees.

[eddy]

They should have 5m width buses used on multi lane trunk routes designed to take up two lanes like the tarmac buses. That way you can have doors at the front and rear as well. They'll make a good alternative to a bendy or decker and soak up a whole heap of passengers allowing lots of standees.

Be lucky to even get a Trailerbus approved in case someone laughes at it.

[Swift]

in case someone laughes at it.

Couldn't care less.

[eddy]

in case someone laughes at it.

Couldn't care less.

I know you could not care less but trying to change a 1945 rule is too hard so what chance of anything wider.

[boronia]

Up to the 1960s, buses were limited to 2.44 width.

[eddy]

Up to the 1960s, buses were limited to 2.44 width.

I was talking about trailerbuses mate.

[Swift]

Up to the 1960s, buses were limited to 2.44 width.

I take it was in imperial measurements then. Might explain why the Leopards were noticeably narrower than the Mercedes that followed. Even though nearly all mark 2 Leopards were built in the 70s, they were a continuation of the Mark 1 from 1967.