Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

[Special_K]

Glen, as previously mentioned, the humble Route 90, 624 etc is now the high frequency cross suburban 24 hours a day, Route 550. Parra to Macquarie Park via Epping. At the height of Covid, this route was operating a 7/8 minute headway during the day slack period.

Life goes full circle. For many years the old Route 508 (501, 511 etc) was the only "govo" bus that plied from West Ryde through the Valley and onto Carlingford, climbing the lofty heights to private bus territory! We drove Leyland Worldmasters and Mark Two Leopards with the Mercs coming into their own when the off-peak 501s ran from Carlingford Square to Central Railway.

[Glen]

Yes indeed and you'll find a bit of the old 165 in within the 550 as well. Interestingly that was at one stage Harris Park's only Sunday bus route, and actually also their only Sunday bus.

[tonyp]

Life goes full circle. For many years the old Route 508 (501, 511 etc) was the only "govo" bus that plied from West Ryde through the Valley and onto Carlingford, climbing the lofty heights to private bus territory! We drove Leyland Worldmasters and Mark Two Leopards with the Mercs coming into their own when the off-peak 501s ran from Carlingford Square to Central Railway.

508 was a service that started in great controversy, being one of three routes introduced quite suddenly and imperiously by the Labor government in 1959 in Ryde and Dundas in direct competition with existing private bus services. Moreover, the government then taxed the private operators under the State Transport (Coordination) Act of 1931 for operating in "competition" with the DGT. This resulted in the private operators, supported by the NSWOPA, going first to the NSW Supreme Court, then the High Court of Australia to challenge the decision. The High Court found in 1960 that the government's action was fully in accordance with Section 158 of the Transport Act (1930). Flushed with their success in polishing off the tramways and then getting to work on clearing away the privates, no doubt the DGT at the time considered this to be their Imperial Era!

Attempts by the OPA to negotiate with the government for fair compensation came to little more than vague promises and the situation settled in place until a Liberal government came into office in 1965, after which the new government took some steps to help the privates, including subsidies for pensioner and school student concessions like those available on DGT buses. Another of these initiatives, which Ken Butt would doubtless have pursued with great energy as soon as the Liberals came into office, was authorising Hunters Hill Bus Co to start a new route, 43 (Chatswood-West Ryde), cutting across a couple of DGT corridors, from 1967. I guess the full karma for the privates has finally arrived just now with Dick Rowe's old company taking over the whole region. I seem to remember the DGT running some of those nasty little Frogs around West Ryde, maybe 508, no substitute for the private buses they displaced. While Hunters Hill was affected by the incursions in Ryde, I think it was Harris Park at the time that took the hit in Dundas Valley(?).

[Swift]

Now we have monopolistic multinationals running our buses. Is that a victory?

[Fleet Lists]

But region 7 Willoughby and Ryde are the exception with Busways.

[Merc1107]

Now we have monopolistic multinationals subsidised by foreign governments running our buses. Is that a victory?

Fixed it for you. And the answer, I think, is no.

Some of the bumbling incompetence and top-heavy management of the privates is mind-bogglingly bad. If the anti-government types are correct, I'd hate to see just how bad the likes of the STA were.

The private sector is supposed to bring with them expertise in working things out to benefit the customer, that simultaneously help the bottom line. Is this overwhelmingly the case? I don't think so. Be it due to operator incompetence, extremely restrictive Government departments that don't want innovation or a mix of both.

[Fleet Lists]

I think that would be a case of a mixture of the two.

[Linto63]

Now we have monopolistic multinationals running our buses. Is that a victory?

As it will stand after Region 9 transfers in April and presuming the proposed flotation of 49% of ComfortDelGro hasn't occurred.

Sydney
Region 1 - Busways - 100% Australian owned
Region 2 - Interline - 100% Australian owned
Region 3 - Transit Systems - 100% Australian owned
Region 4 - ComfortDelGro - 100% Singapore owned
Region 5 - Punchbowl - 100% Australian owned
Region 6 - Transit Systems - 100% Australian owned
Region 7 - Busways - 100% Australian owned
Region 8 - Keolis Downer - 50/50 Australian / French
Region 9 - Transdev / John Holland - 75/25 French / Chinese
Region 10 - Transdev 100% French owned
Region 12 - Transdev 100% French owned
Region 13 - Transdev 100% French owned
Region 14 - ComfortDelGro - 100% Singapore owned
Region 16 - Busabout - 100% Australian owned

Outer Sydney
Region 1 - Rover Coaches - 100% Australian owned
Region 2 - Comfort DelGro - 100% Singapore owned
Region 3 - Port Stephens - 100% Australian owned
Region 4 - Comfort DelGro - 100% Singapore owned
Region 5 - Keolis Downer - 50/50 Australian / French
Region 6 - Busways - 100% Australian owned
Region 7 - Red Bus Service - 100% Australian owned
Region 8 - Comfort DelGro - 100% Singapore owned
Region 9 - Premier Transport - 100% Australian owned
Region 10 - Premier Transport - 100% Australian owned
Region 11 - Comfort DelGro - 100% Singapore owned
Region 12 - Dion's - 100% Australian owned

Summary
Australian owned - 14
Australian / foreign owned - 2
Foreign owned - 10

[Merc1107]

Transdev and Keolis both have a reasonable degree of public (French Govt) ownership, about 50% in both cases.

Interesting then that Australian public considers government undertakings as 'always unprofitable', but are willing to let foreign entities backed by their states have the reigns when it suits.

[tonyp]

Now we have monopolistic multinationals running our buses. Is that a victory?

I think Linto63's list answers that for you. In fact, the trend seems to be that, after the initial foreign incursion, Australian interests have gathered forces and come forward to take ownership of a growing number of contracts across the country.

Fixed it for you. And the answer, I think, is no.

Some of the bumbling incompetence and top-heavy management of the privates is mind-bogglingly bad. If the anti-government types are correct, I'd hate to see just how bad the likes of the STA were.

The private sector is supposed to bring with them expertise in working things out to benefit the customer, that simultaneously help the bottom line. Is this overwhelmingly the case? I don't think so. Be it due to operator incompetence, extremely restrictive Government departments that don't want innovation or a mix of both.

The NSW Auditor did find that the privates were more efficient than the STA. That should answer your question about the STA.

I think one of the inevitable, but unacknowledged rules of business is that, if you're not careful, the bigger you grow the more bureaucratic you become. Not as bureaucratic as a government agency because the financial bottom line typically pulls things up, but inefficiencies can creep into a private entity if it's not sufficiently diligent.

As for customer interface, I find the drivers employed by the Perth privates to be extraordinarily friendly and helpful. It comes as quite a shock if you've spent years using government services in Sydney. The Perth drivers remind me of how private drivers have been for years in NSW, like making sure you have a seat or a firm hold before driving off and so on. There are always exceptions on both sides of course, but overall, things like this have traditionally been a hallmark distinction between public and private operations from the passenger perspective.

Other customer interface issues in the privates are more constrained than they used to be because of the restrictive government oversight, as you mention. I've seen an example of TfNSW coming down on a contract operator like a ton of bricks for being a little bit too innovative or too candid and helpful to customers. Public servants are notorious killjoys and they know zip (from lack of real-life experience) about running a business. Living a secure life funded by taxpayers completely divorces them from reality, especially when there are no adverse consequences for them when money runs out, with the expectation that the taxpayer will bail them out. We don't need that ethic at the business face. That's why governments have generally pulled back to policy and oversight, subcontracting the business side as much as possible.

[Swift]

Busways drivers I the central coast have become like the stereotype hard impassive Sydney government bus driver.
It was a real contrast when I got on a Red Bus Services bus a couple of years back with a driver that went out of his way to make sure I knew my best options to get to Gosford and was very affable. Like two planets.

Summary
Australian owned - 14
Australian / foreign owned - 2
Foreign owned - 10

12 too many. Our buses used to be all Australian run.
What do overseas interests want with our domestic bus industry and why do we need them?
Even America's iconic schoolbuses have been heavily infiltrated by Transdev and First of the UK. Why do we roll over for these foreigners to come in and meddle?
I miss the days of the nice insular little industry we had that worked perfectly well without those guys.

[Linto63]

All very well to look at the world through rose tinted glasses and pretend that we would be better off if we remained an insulated country with protectionist trade barriers, but the reality is that much of our wealth has been built on being a trading nation, and that works both ways. Plenty of Australian transport companies have, or at least attempted to, establish operations in foreign countries, Busways in Singapore, Transit Systems in England and Singapore, Westbus in England.

[LB608]

in the early 70's the Government of day was doing a lot of charter both sydney and newcastle to outside of there areas.
25/8/1970 Newcastle sent Leopard 3696 to Sydney,on arrival at Wynyard the driver picked a inspector and went with the driver to destination,drop of,then to Burwood Depot for his meal break,while at the depot the bus was washed and fueled,4 hours later the return of forward trip.
3/5/1971 Willoughby sent 3345 to Port Waratah (Newcastle)
10/5/1971 Brookvale send Atlantean 1051 to Port Waratah
There were a lot of other charters but i didn't write them down.
in January 1971 over a period of 2 days Newcastle sent 63 to Taree for flood work
3/2/1971 Newcastle sent 8 to Maitland and 2 to East Maitland for flood work

[tonyp]

Charters were becoming a bigger thing for privates then too, to make ends meet, and many were adding a coach or two to the fleet. At school a decade or so earlier we'd get a mixture of privates and govvies for excursion charters and on one occasion a valuable lesson was learnt when a couple of chartered DGT double deckers (probably from Y) got us out to the Hawkesbury a couple of hours late after a gruelling slow trip that was, figuratively speaking, derailed when they got lost in the Dundas Valley and came up against a railway bridge that they couldn't fit under, having to reverse out up some rural lane. That was a long day.

[Swift]

Parramatta Ryde Bus Service were chosen a lot for charters by schools all around the northern districts. I asked a mechanic from there why they were chosen so much and he said because they are always on time and don't muck them around.

I remember when they sent out two luxury coaches and one of their SL200s (I thought it was odd at the time) on an excursion to Brooklyn to catch a ferry to Little Wobby on the Hawkebury River back in 86 and when we boarded the buses to return one of the rear corner window panels of the SL200 fell out!
With all their aging AECs and Leylands they were running at the time, I was stunned to see they had a modern luxury Domino Tourmaster and a very resplendent Eagle coach. Class!

The year before when I was in year six in primary school, they specifically ordered a bus, not a coach, from Deanes so they could fit three to a seat. What do they send out? a luxury coach. We had to sit three to a seat on twin buckets. Fortunately they weren't like the V set seats with a fixed armrest, so it worked out ok. Pity they didn't have a bendy bus.

[Special_K]

Swift. You must have had extensive bus industry experience! I noticed your reference to the Willoughby MANs. You might recall thet the first Volvos had a tendency for the front door entrance to move up and down while the door was open. This led to a Union black-ban until the matter was resolved.

Back in the day, well over half of Willoughby Depot lived on the Central Coast. A late running moning train from the Coast could see many trips departing late ex the shed, if the Depot Inspector couldn't madly swap work around and keep the runs on the road.The drivers often willingly operated a different shift to help out, What goes around, comes around!

[Glen]

I can remember in the early 1980's when the SRA introduced a new train from Gosford at 3.00am to Hornsby. I believe it catered for a lot of bus drivers and Emergency service workers.

[LB608]

in 1972 i worked at North Sydney, there was staff bus that left North Sydney at 3:15am,that ran special as a 288 to Eastwood, then onto Epping Station to meet the train from the Central Coast,then to Chatswood Station,then to Willoughby,back to Chatswood,back to willoughby then back to North Sydney.
I wonder if that still operates today.

[tonyp]

I can remember in the early 1980's when the SRA introduced a new train from Gosford at 3.00am to Hornsby. I believe it catered for a lot of bus drivers and Emergency service workers.

It's a subject that's sometimes discussed in the planning sector. In particular, the LGAs that often have the highest concentration of public transport use (and major hospitals, emergency services etc) are also the LGAs that the workers in those sectors can least afford to live in. So the transport of essential workers between those areas and their places of residence, in tune with their shifts, is quite a significant issue. It goes without saying that the name "Eastern Suburbs" figures prominently in this, but with the explosion of real estate values, the problem has spread widely.

[Merc1107]

With the present environmental crisis, and the ongoing desire to improve the pay and conditions of workers, I feel there should be a greater emphasis on the public contractors providing their workforce with additional services (even restricted-access specials for areas particularly afflicted with itinerants) to not only avoid the negative externalities of cars, but also give workers an indirect payrise by negating the need for an extra car in a household.

The last thing anyone wants after a full driving shift is driving home, particularly if it's a longer distance commute. And of course this becomes a fatigue (safety!) issue when you get those 10hr breaks between shifts.

[Swift]

Maybe subsidised accommodation within a 20 minute zone of the depot -on the proviso of a pay package to encompass it and move out in two months if you cease employment. Build a bus driver apartment tower!

[Special_K]

During a stint at North Sydney many years ago, I was surprised to learn that 75% of the drivers lived reasonably local. There must have been cheaper boarding houses tucked away on those ferry bus feeder routes!

A bus driver apartment tower. Could you imagine the hallway talk? (apologies to non-STA people.)
G'day, what's up.
Got a bung for FAR when I did a short shunt, had to see the DM.
I got a DOC on my ADO then got called in for being AA the next week.
Misread the green sheet , spilt my coffee on the moan sheet and upset the sheddie.
Park it on the garden, Parkers Corner, on the clock, on the bowser, where ever!
Shift got converted. I've got a late, can I have your early?
You have D006, I got D010, Yours finishes 6 minutes earlier.

Then the whinging would start, it would be a giant meal room.

I'm sure that there's no complaining in a private bus depot meal room. (Do they have one?)

[Merc1107]

I'm sure that there's no complaining in a private bus depot meal room. (Do they have one?)

The STA don't have the market cornered on complaining in meal rooms, car parks or interchanges; that I can say for certain!

[Glen]

I'm sure that there's no complaining in a private bus depot meal room. (Do they have one?)

Err, yes they do, they are not that backward.

[tonyp]

In the railways, they used to have locomotive enginemen's barracks. Many of them still exist, turned to other uses. Manly ferry officers (and often crew) would stay overnight in their cabins on the ship if they did the last run of the night and first in morning, particularly at Manly (do they still do that?). Nowadays most would have families to go home to, so a commute before and after work would be the norm and expectation I think.