Railway Observations for 2022.

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Post Reply
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Fleet Lists »

As for 2021.
For the time being the current separate threads will continue for Light Rail and as well as for the Metro rail.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
gilberations
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:36 am

Re: Railway Operations for 2022.

Post by gilberations »

Could metro not be included here, and then start separate threads:
Light Rail (Operation) 2022
Light Rail (Construction) 2022
Metro (Construction) 2022
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Railway Operations for 2022.

Post by Fleet Lists »

Any other opinions???
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Railway Operations for 2022.

Post by Fleet Lists »

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... erallPos=6
New Transport Minister David Elliott flags timetable change for Sydney trains

The number of trains running in Sydney are set to be cut by the new transport minister, as passenger numbers plunge amid the pandemic.

NSW transport minister to resolve shorts issue
Newly minted NSW Transport Minister David Elliott is unhappy with his department chiefs over the refusal to allow rail staff to wear shorts.
NSW

Don't miss out on the headlines from NSW. Followed categories will be added to My News.

New Transport Minister David Elliott will push for a stripped-back January train timetable amid plummeting patronage and rising cases of Covid-19 among workers, declaring he’s “not going to run ghost trains” as Omicron hits the city’s transport ­system.

Mr Elliott will advise Premier Dominic Perrottet to adopt an enhanced weekend timetable during the week, with extra services during peak hours from January 10 to the end of the month.

He says running full weekday services isn’t in the best interests of taxpayers as booming numbers of new Covid cases have Sydneysiders working from home and avoiding public transport.
All these empty seats on so-called “ghost trains” are what Transport Minister David Elliott is trying to avoid. Picture: Monique Harmer
All these empty seats on so-called “ghost trains” are what Transport Minister David Elliott is trying to avoid. Picture: Monique Harmer

“I’m not going to run ghost trains,” Mr Elliott told The Daily Telegraph.

“I’m ruling it out because it’s not in the best interests of taxpayers or commuters.”

Mr Elliott said the move would also ensure there would be enough frontline staff and reserve workers to man trains from February 1, when school returns and hundreds of ­students flood back to the rail network.

There are currently 60 rail workers confirmed as Covid-positive, with another 11 isolating, along with an increase in leave applications.

Mr Elliott confirmed that rapid antigen testing for ­transport workers is currently being provided at 13 sites across NSW, based on “business criticality”.

The rapid testing regime would be expanded when enough kits are secured, he added.

While patronage on the city’s rail network usually drops by 25 per cent in January, the Omicron outbreak has led the government to predict it will drop by another 7 per cent.

Mr Elliott confirmed key event planning for New Year’s Eve and Sydney’s Ashes Test was also continuing, amid government expectations that the numbers of punters boarding trains to get around the city will likely drop. However, the government is still planning on running bulked-up timetables for major events, with Mr Elliott confirming extra services were scheduled to run on the first and second days of the cricket Test at the SCG on January 5 and 6.

The proposed rail timetable will mirror that adopted between August and October during Sydney’s lockdown.

It means trains will run to their weekend timetable, with additional early morning and early afternoon services to cater for workers.

Current protocols like deep cleaning of trains and mandatory mask wearing will remain in place in January, while other modes of transport – including buses and light rail – will run on their regular timetables.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
ACM
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:33 pm
Favourite Vehicle: O305 / V Set

Re: Railway Operations for 2022.

Post by ACM »

Fleet Lists wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:24 am https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... erallPos=6
New Transport Minister David Elliott flags timetable change for Sydney trains

The number of trains running in Sydney are set to be cut by the new transport minister, as passenger numbers plunge amid the pandemic.

NSW transport minister to resolve shorts issue
Newly minted NSW Transport Minister David Elliott is unhappy with his department chiefs over the refusal to allow rail staff to wear shorts.
NSW

---

Current protocols like deep cleaning of trains and mandatory mask wearing will remain in place in January, while other modes of transport – including buses and light rail – will run on their regular timetables.
It would be nice if they could come with a steady timetable, instead of the 'lets make it up as we go along timetable'.
To my understanding, running trains at less than 100% capacity will slow the spread of Omicron (somewhat). A medium must be struck between social distancing. It depends if his idea of a cut-down timetable is the same off-peak frequency with cuts to peak hour service, or a bare bones service.

I'll second him on reprimanding bosses for not letting staff wear shorts in summer. This is meant to be a working railway, not an air conditioned office block.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Railway Operations for 2022.

Post by Linto63 »

gilberations wrote: Could metro not be included here, and then start separate threads:
Light Rail (Operation) 2022
Light Rail (Construction) 2022
Metro (Construction) 2022
No real need, each of the lines already has its own thread, just maintain the status quo, amending headings if necessary. Appears to have been an error in setting up these threads with the established naming conventions of 2022 Railway Observations replaced with for 2022 Railway Operations for 2022.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Fleet Lists »

Oops yes fixed the Observations.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
ACM
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:33 pm
Favourite Vehicle: O305 / V Set

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by ACM »

Came across this article by chance:
https://urbantransportnews.com/news/als ... il-network
Long & Short of it is that ETCS will be / is being installed right now, starting with the Eastern Suburbs line. Is this old news (and me be an ostrich with head deep in sand) or was this a proposal that didn't get off the ground?
Qantas94Heavy
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Qantas94Heavy »

Cuts to train services confirmed: weekend base timetable (with additional peak services) from Monday 10 January.
https://transportnsw.info/news/2022/tra ... 10-january
User avatar
BroadGauge
Posts: 3740
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:20 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Car
Location: NSW

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by BroadGauge »

Looks like there will be a nearly unusable weekend timetable running on the Southern Highlands line from January 10th until further notice, which is a significant cut from during the lockdown last year when SHL, HUN and the Bomaderry service continued to run a weekday timetable.

The only "additional peak services" that ever operate on the line when this occurs (e.g. between Christmas and New Year) every year is the extension of some Moss Vale services to Goulburn, so there is still gaps of up to 120-150 minutes between peak services, when on a weekday timetable the gaps are 30-60 minutes.
User avatar
ACM
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:33 pm
Favourite Vehicle: O305 / V Set

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by ACM »

BroadGauge wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:41 pm Looks like there will be a nearly unusable weekend timetable running on the Southern Highlands line from January 10th until further notice, which is a significant cut from during the lockdown last year when SHL, HUN and the Bomaderry service continued to run a weekday timetable.

The only "additional peak services" that ever operate on the line when this occurs (e.g. between Christmas and New Year) every year is the extension of some Moss Vale services to Goulburn, so there is still gaps of up to 120-150 minutes between peak services, when on a weekday timetable the gaps are 30-60 minutes.
Bloody hell.
Looks like all of us good folk will have to email David Eliot. Here's a form I just came up with:

Dear David Elliot, NSW minister for transport.
It has come to my attention that train services will be cut to a weekend frequency (with some additional peak hour services) for the for foreseeable future. Whilst this is tolerable in metropolitan Sydney, this will cause issues outside of this area:
-Trains on the Southern Highlands Line (Cambeltown-Moss Vale) are typically separated by 1 hour on weekdays. On weekends this is typically every 2 hours.
-Trains on the Hunter Line (Newcastle-Maitland) are typically separated by 40 mins on weekdays. On weekends this is typically every 60 mins.
-Across all lines with lower frequency (i.e. ALL areas in NSW outside of greater Sydney), train-bus and bus-train connections will be disturbed, given how buses will continue to operate at a weekday timetable across the state (as weekend bus services are generally insufficient).
Assuming a reduced timetable is the logical response to the reduced travel by public transport resulting from Omicron, time should be spent writing a more cohesive timetable across all modes, acknowledging that those who must use public transport for their journey need it to work for the entire trip (e.g. those who can't/don't drive). Irrespective, small trains in regional areas should be the last services to be pruned.
Regards, ACM
Transtopic
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Transtopic »

ACM wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:46 pm Came across this article by chance:
https://urbantransportnews.com/news/als ... il-network
Long & Short of it is that ETCS will be / is being installed right now, starting with the Eastern Suburbs line. Is this old news (and me be an ostrich with head deep in sand) or was this a proposal that didn't get off the ground?
This is somewhat confusing. It was my understanding that Siemens had been awarded contracts for the digital signalling upgrade to ETCS - Level 2 standard, unless the Alstom contract was for the initial trialling from Erskineville to Bondi Junction and Sutherland to Cronulla.

https://www.railway-technology.com/news ... rk-sydney/
matthewg
Posts: 1704
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by matthewg »

One of the key objectives of ETCS back in Europe is cross-vendor compatibility so probably both Siemens AND Alstom have contracts for the Sydney project and TfNSW is expecting the two vendors to ensure proper cross-compatibility with each other's products.
A train equipped with Alstom onboard should be able to seamlessly cross to Siemens interlocking from an Alstom one, and likewise, a train with siemens onboard equipment should function perfectly talking to Alstom ground equipment.
The best way to ensure that from the start, give work to both contractors at the same time and make it clear trains need to be able to cross from one vendor's region to the other without issue and fully safety case verification. Better than finding out years later when the 'other' vendor gets the contract to supply new trains and they find they can't talk to the competition's signalling equipment...
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by tonyp »

I've never seen this movement before, but I understand that the last south coast Endeavour of the day (2212 ex Bomaderry) goes to Wollongong for stabling. So it runs empty ahead of the train it meets (2255 ex Kiama to Sydney) as far as Wollongong. Last night driving past Bombo (using the car precisely to avoid such single-track shenanigans on the rail!), I saw the two trains waiting nose-to-tail (no block signalling then?) at the platform, presumably waiting to pass a south-bound Manildra. I wish all the Endeavour services would just run through to Wollongong, it would save so much time and hassle. There's quite a heavy demand for Nowra-Wollongong intra-region commute.

The waits for crossing on this single track line (especially at Albion Park Rail) are an absolute pain, rubbed in by watching the traffic roaring past at 100 on the adjacent motorway while you're standing still. There was much political fanfare a couple of years ago about a second track through Toolijooa but there is no sign of any activity at all. If it was a motorway, it would be well in motion by now. As mentioned in another post, pretty well all of the physical barriers to duplicating Unanderra to Shellharbour have been removed, but nothing has happened since.

Another "interesting" feature of the service is the mid afternoon Bermuda Triangle where you definitely choose to drive because the Endeavour runs out of puff in its efforts to run a roughly hourly service and expires to the extent that it takes 2 hours 4 minutes (average speed 40 km/h) to get to Wollongong during the 1400 to 1630 time band! Maybe it's the crew shift break or something like that. Funnily enough, the same black hole doesn't appear at the same time in the south-bound direction, but if you want to have a nice night with a few drinks in Wollongong and go home to Nowra on the 2353 ex Wollongong, then it takes you a mind-numbing 2 hours 30 minutes to get back to Bomaderry. I guess the good news is that when you get into your car at Bomaderry to drive the last leg home, you'll definitely be stone-cold sober. Maybe TfNSW does it deliberately for this reason.

The Endeavour doesn't spend long at Wollongong because it's back at Kiama at 0319 (presumably having run empty from Wollongong yet again tagging along with an Oscar) to start again for the day. If there's a competition for a wasted dead running award, this one would be on the list. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just send a maintenance team down to Kiama in a truck every night?
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Railway Observations for 2022

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote: I wish all the Endeavour services would just run through to Wollongong, it would save so much time and hassle.
Point 1, would require cut backs elsewhere to provide rolling stock. Point 2, if it were done what was the point of electrifying the line south of Wollongong. While any change of trains is an annoyance, by degrees of difficulty this is an easy one being straight across an island platform.
tonyp wrote: There was much political fanfare a couple of years ago about a second track through Toolijooa but there is no sign of any activity at all.
The contract for the Environmental Impact Statement was only released in September even though the project was announced in the March 2019 election campaign. Hence my cynicism on another thread that a shiny website with lots of spin but no substance does not equate to action.
tonyp wrote: As mentioned in another post, pretty well all of the physical barriers to duplicating Unanderra to Shellharbour have been removed, but nothing has happened since.
But is there a need, even in peaks the service is only half-hourly, and while crosses do slow the service down, from my experience is only a couple of minutes.
tonyp wrote: Another "interesting" feature of the service is the mid afternoon Bermuda Triangle where you definitely choose to drive because the Endeavour runs out of puff in its efforts to run a roughly hourly service and expires to the extent that it takes 2 hours 4 minutes (average speed 40 km/h) to get to Wollongong during the 1400 to 1630 time band.
The 1431 ex Bomaderry takes 40 minutes vs the normal 27/28 and hence misses the connection at Kiama with the Sydney service. This is probably the service that after calling at Berry reverses into the siding at the southern end to allow the Manildra freight train to pass through. Previously the siding opposite the station was a loop, but the northern end was chopped some years ago, presumably when the freight trains grew in length and would have blocked the level crossing.
tonyp wrote: The Endeavour doesn't spend long at Wollongong because it's back at Kiama at 0319 (presumably having run empty from Wollongong yet again tagging along with an Oscar) to start again for the day. If there's a competition for a wasted dead running award, this one would be on the list.
There used to be a train in Queensland that travelled empty for 600km from Rockhampton to Brisbane. Dead running of 40km will be small beer when compared to the 400km that the XPT/Xplorer replacements will have to travel to reach Dubbo, all for pure political reasons.
tonyp wrote: Wouldn't it be cheaper to just send a maintenance team down to Kiama in a truck every night?
Possibly, but then you also have to factor in the cost of having to a maintain a security cage and fuel bay at Bomaderry although there may already be one of the latter for Pacific National IIRC.
BAMBAM
Posts: 814
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:37 am

Re: Railway Observations for 2022

Post by BAMBAM »

Also another factor is staff, Wollongong Depot operates the South Coast Line including Port Kembla and and Kiama services as well the endeavour services to Nowra. If trains do stable at Nowra or Kiama then either they will need Taxi to get them to and from Wollongong or set up an entire depot at Kiama or Nowra, something possibly not considered as cost for long term operations might not have any value and it’s better for dead running and being centralised at Wollongong.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by tonyp »

The Catch 22 on the south coast is that demand is low because the service is poor. There's a lot of latent demand. The volume of people coming in by train to Bomaderry during summer holidays is also surprising. Everybody most certainly doesn't drive on holiday. The two-hourly weekend and holiday service in particular is appalling. The point that eludes the planners is that better rail would help mitigate the road demand issues.
Scott4570
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:16 pm

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Scott4570 »

Just a further point to the South Coast Endeavour Set.

The Set is Tabled to go back to Eveleigh each Monday and Thursday Night for a Maintenance check or Set changeover. The Set generally returns early the next morning.

There are no Maintenance Staff at Wollongong, other than an Equipment Examiner.
The Equipment Examiner only checks minor Faults when notified by Crews. If the Fault cannot be rectified the Set would need to go back to Eveleigh or alternative arrangements made for Repair.

This also applies to the OSCAR Fleet running South Coast services.

These days Train sets cannot be Stabled at Locations which do not give suitable access to Crews to Prepare and Stable their Trains, e.g. walkways to sidings and track level access to examine their trains.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by tonyp »

Scott4570 wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:57 pm Just a further point to the South Coast Endeavour Set.

The Set is Tabled to go back to Eveleigh each Monday and Thursday Night for a Maintenance check or Set changeover. The Set generally returns early the next morning.

There are no Maintenance Staff at Wollongong, other than an Equipment Examiner.
The Equipment Examiner only checks minor Faults when notified by Crews. If the Fault cannot be rectified the Set would need to go back to Eveleigh or alternative arrangements made for Repair.

This also applies to the OSCAR Fleet running South Coast services.

These days Train sets cannot be Stabled at Locations which do not give suitable access to Crews to Prepare and Stable their Trains, e.g. walkways to sidings and track level access to examine their trains.
So the set I saw on Tuesday night was going to Wollongong. Like the empty Endeavours going to Sydney in tandem with an H set, it's a pity they can't carry passengers to at least give them a more comfortable ride on those trips.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Railway Observations for 2022

Post by Linto63 »

Given that the empty set runs just ahead of the passenger service, no point of running two services within minutes of each other. Back in the CityRail era there was a service that departed Wollongong at 1351 and operated through to Bomaderry, although there was seemingly no corresponding up movement. This was back when there were two units, was cut back to release one for the Bathurst Bullet as I recall.
Scott4570
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:16 pm

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Scott4570 »

The 2nd South Coast Endeavour set (in the CityRail era) used to come up on a service from Bomaderry arriving into Wollongong Up Dock Platform (now closed) at around 0840 hours. It would then shunt to the Down Dock to await the afternoon working at 1351 hours.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by tonyp »

Scott4570 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:11 am The 2nd South Coast Endeavour set (in the CityRail era) used to come up on a service from Bomaderry arriving into Wollongong Up Dock Platform (now closed) at around 0840 hours. It would then shunt to the Down Dock to await the afternoon working at 1351 hours.
At least that acknowledged the demand for travel between Shoalhaven and Wollongong, though it sounded like a wasted resource for a few hours during the day there. Unlike any of the other lines out of Sydney, the South Coast has a major regional city located halfway (at 80 kms) along the line, one that acts as a strong focus for commuting itself. Shoalhaven is within Wollongong's commuting catchment and has a population of 100,000, almost entirely car-dependent at present, but representing huge latent demand. There's definitely a strong case for a train service that's dedicated to linking Shoalhaven and Greater Wollongong on their own, let alone Sydney. So that second Endeavour set, with two sets running between Bomaderry and Wollongong full-time, would be a tremendous uplift.

However, we've entered an uncertain period now. One set has been taken away and new electrics are on the way, as well as a new regional trains with dual diesel'/electric capability. The latter would be an obvious solution for the south coast, eliminating both the break at Kiama and the need for electrification extension. But how would they fit those trains into a service pattern alongside the Sydney-Kiama electrics? We'll have to wait and see what they come up with, but continuing the break at Kiama, with its extra time and 50% reduction in service south of that point, is no longer a proper solution.
User avatar
Campbelltown busboy
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:56 am However, we've entered an uncertain period now. One set has been taken away and new electrics are on the way, as well as a new regional trains with dual diesel'/electric capability. The latter would be an obvious solution for the south coast, eliminating both the break at Kiama and the need for electrification extension. But how would they fit those trains into a service pattern alongside the Sydney-Kiama electrics? We'll have to wait and see what they come up with, but continuing the break at Kiama, with its extra time and 50% reduction in service south of that point, is no longer a proper solution.
If the government order enough trains of the new duel diesel/electric regional fleet thet could trial a direct peak hour Bomaderry-Sydney service morning peak x1 north and afternoon peak x1 south
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by boronia »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:07 pm
tonyp wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:56 am However, we've entered an uncertain period now. One set has been taken away and new electrics are on the way, as well as a new regional trains with dual diesel'/electric capability. The latter would be an obvious solution for the south coast, eliminating both the break at Kiama and the need for electrification extension. But how would they fit those trains into a service pattern alongside the Sydney-Kiama electrics? We'll have to wait and see what they come up with, but continuing the break at Kiama, with its extra time and 50% reduction in service south of that point, is no longer a proper solution.
If the government order enough trains of the new duel diesel/electric regional fleet thet could trial a direct peak hour Bomaderry-Sydney service morning peak x1 north and afternoon peak x1 south
From memory, there are to be less "outer suburban" cars in the new order than there are current Endeavours?
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
Aurora
Posts: 926
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:54 pm
Favourite Vehicle: C set
Location: Sydney Reg 3

Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Aurora »

BroadGauge wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:41 pm Looks like there will be a nearly unusable weekend timetable running on the Southern Highlands line from January 10th until further notice, which is a significant cut from during the lockdown last year when SHL, HUN and the Bomaderry service continued to run a weekday timetable.
This is not the case. Just like last year during lockdown, the weekday timetable will operate for diesel powered services (although a couple of services will be cut from the Southern Highlands line to help manage reduced manpower availability).
An asset of NSW. All opinions/comments are strictly my own.
M 5885.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”