New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

[swtt]

I couldn't believe after all that work to deliberate duplicate the International Terminal <-> Mascot section, we're now back to only Route 420 serving the International Terminal.

[In Transit]

... which is still more frequent than the original 400 in that section.

For what purpose was the 400/420 duplication? It only came about as part of the separate of Region 6 from STA. It was hardly hard work, nor had any hallmarks of a grand strategic plan for better services - more by accident than deliberate design.

[Fleet Lists]

The comment
"Connections will be available to Route N20 at Mascot Station for travel towards the International Airport and Route 333 at Bondi Junction for travel towards the city." does not seem to make sense as there does not appear to be such a connection during the day except I guess "by train".

[In Transit]

Those connections are both from the 350. Outside overnight hours you can connect from the 350 to the International Airport by the 400, and similarly continue to connect to the 333 at Bondi Junction for the City - and of course also by train for both of those connections at those times. Looking at the timetables, the 333/350 and N20/350 overnight connections appear to be deliberately timed to connect.

[tonyp]

As far as I can see, 373 terminates at Museum so interchange is still required for anybody going further, not much of a concession. The poor interchange at Randwick does justify some concession unlike Kingsford.

[stupid_girl]

https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... %20map.pdf
Will these routes be transferred from Region 6 to Region 9?
305,308,320,348,389,440

Together with the truncation of 418 and 420, Transit Systems may be losing a large chunk of service kilometres.

Here is a link to large PDF which shows all timetables for regions 6 and 9 as from 5/12/2021 and I think alll routes you ask about still show as Transit Systems
https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... nd%209.pdf

It seems Region 6 retain these routes and also gain 303 and 358.

[stupid_girl]

This is kinda interesting: Some new 399 services will morph into 394X as it arrives Kingsford and customers can remain on the bus for a direct trip into town.

I don't understand why it is not called 399X.

It is more logical and much less confusing if services to/from UNSW High Street are called 399 and services to/from city (not via High Street) are called 399X.

I can hardly understand the insistence to dump route number 399X.

https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... nd%209.pdf
It is absolutely confusing to have a 394X departing Martin Place at 17:00 for Little Bay via existing route, and then another 394X departing Martin Place at 17:05 for Little Bay via route 399.

[Jurassic_Joke]

If I’m reading the map and the changes correctly, is this correct - Frenchman Road (between Randwick and Bondi Junction, currently served by limited stops 400 and all stops 348, 316, 317, 314) is gunna drop down to only the new 390X? I’m curious to see what the overall buses/h will look like and further, will stops in Frenchman Road currently only served by 348, 316, 314, 317 and skipped by 400) be served by 390x, if not, looks like those stops will be discontinued too.

Also a side observation, note that Botany St in Randwick, close to UNSW High St LR stop, will no longer have a regular bus service with the 357 being withdrawn and replacement 358 running a different route in Randwick

[Merc1107]

But Rail, Tram and Bus Union division secretary David Babineau said the government was only addressing as many concerns as it had been forced to in order “to tick boxes”.

“We are still getting service reductions and job losses,” he said.

Residents in the southeast protested against the changes to bus services at a rally in Randwick in May, while thousands have signed two separate petitions to save routes.

Have no problems with the need for Unions in the transport industry - but when they overstep the mark and stand in the way of actual progress that will keep their members in a job in the long run (i.e. a failing network will slowly be frittered away to nothing), then I begin to be frustrated.
Seriously folks - focus on the real issues bus drivers face rather than worrying about the planning department making what should be positive changes!

[boronia]

They put a lot of emphasis on services that have been cut, but do not mention services that have been introduced or upgraded. How many additional new buses have been added to these fleets in the last 10 years?

[swtt]

They put a lot of emphasis on services that have been cut, but do not mention services that have been introduced or upgraded. How many additional new buses have been added to these fleets in the last 10 years?

Plenty of growth buses in fact. The reality is also the silly unions are probably gaining membership as the number of drivers might not have even decreased - they've simply been redeployed?

[Linto63]

How many additional new buses have been added to these fleets in the last 10 years?

While other things need to be factored in, e.g. most of the Metrobus services in 2013 in region 9 were operated by buses from outside the region, the three region 9 depots had a combined
586 buses in June 2013 vs 544 in November 2021, a 7% decline.

[swtt]

How many additional new buses have been added to these fleets in the last 10 years?

While other things need to be factored in, e.g. most of the Metrobus services in 2013 in region 9 were operated by buses from outside the region, the three region 9 depots had a combined
586 buses in June 2013 vs 544 in November 2021, a 7% decline.

What about transfers out of Region 9 into Region 6 (or into Regions 7/8)?

Obviously with M30 (430) and M40 (340) not crossing the harbour anymore (or even, axed), this would be reflected in the Nov 2021 figures.

[tonyp]

The insertion of a light rail system with a capacity of over 200 rigid buses into region 9 would make that 2021 figure the equivalent of about 740 buses which would be about a 20+% increase. Obviously the advent of the light rail would have caused a decrease in the number of buses.

[Linto63]

What about transfers out of Region 9 into Region 6 (or into Regions 7/8)?

As I said there are factors other than just the raw numbers that need to be taken into account.

Obviously with M30 (430) and M40 (340) not crossing the harbour anymore (or even, axed), this would be reflected in the Nov 2021 figures.

The 430 had nothing to with region 9, being operated out of Leichhardt, North Sydney and Tempe. The 340 was operated jointly by Waverley and Willoughby, so would have released only a handful of buses.

Obviously the advent of the light rail would have caused a decrease in the number of buses.

Except that the light rail has largely been operating over and above the existing bus services, rather than instead of. Apart from the withdrawal of the region 6 operated M10 and M50, Sydney High school services and UNSW 89x express services, services in region 9 are operating to the same frequencies as before the L2 opened in December 2019. So again wouldn't have reduced peak requirements by much.

[J_Busworth]

There will also be fleet changes as a result of the new network that is being implemented, which will further reduce the overall number of buses in Region 9. It is my understanding that there will be a net loss of 40 buses by April, made up of a net loss of 17 at Port Botany, 14 at Randwick and 9 at Waverley.

[1whoknows]

Assuming your figures are correct then 40 buses are being lost. However there are 30x2 tram sets each of which has the carrying capacity of 2-3 buses so in fact there is a nett increase in carrying capacity across the network plus better utilisation of the buses instead of running processions of them along Anzac Parade from every suburb below Randwick..

[tonyp]

Assuming your figures are correct then 40 buses are being lost. However there are 30x2 tram sets each of which has the carrying capacity of 2-3 buses so in fact there is a nett increase in carrying capacity across the network plus better utilisation of the buses instead of running processions of them along Anzac Parade from every suburb below Randwick..

The cited figure for a coupled tram set is 450 passengers, I think at 6 ppsm. 400 would be more comfortable, so I'd run with that figure. The only bus type that could fairly compete with that is the artic which can comfortably carry 100, so that would be four artics to a tram set. With rigid 12.5 metre buses, they're progressively downrating the capacity, so this type of bus which is usually rated at 90-100 passengers (with three doors) in Europe, has been knocked down to 70-80 in Australia and, with the advent of weighty electrics, is being further downrated to about 60. So that would be about 6+ buses per tram's carrying capacity, not 2 or 3!

It's not enough to compare just numbers of buses. Capacity is very significant too. We need more artics.

[Qantas94Heavy]

Not sure if I missed it or they added it afterwards, but there's now a 'consulation report' on the SE bus changes: https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... Report.pdf

It explains the main changes for each bus route and overall feedback.

Sounds like they're keeping bus and light rail as separate Opal modes: "For transferring between different modes, like a
bus to light rail, there is a $2 transfer discount."

[Linto63]

$3.3 billion to replace 40 buses. Granted a bit simplistic, but works out at $82.5 million per bus replaced. The $3.3 billion would have bought about 6,000 buses, enough to replace every bus in Sydney and then some. What a dog of a project this was, as discredited as the transport minister who implemented it.

[tonyp]

$3.3 billion to replace 40 buses. Granted a bit simplistic, but works out at $82.5 million per bus replaced. The $3.3 billion would have bought about 6,000 buses, enough to replace every bus in Sydney and then some. What a dog of a project this was, as discredited as the transport minister who implemented it.

They'd need to be buses with a door at each end so that commuters could just walk through the stationary conga line of buses from Circular Quay to Anzac Pde.

That's actually about 200 rigid buses so recalculate ad see what you get.

[Linto63]

Yet the tram is only a couple of minutes quicker than the equivalent peak hour bus, conga lines on Elizabeth and Oxford Streets seem to be not as big an issue as some believe. It may have been envisaged that the light rail would replace more buses, but clearly some of the backpedaling required, e.g. the retention of route 373, has made inroads into that, and reportedly it will only save 40.

[Fleet Lists]

That 40 is in addition to those saved when the Metrobus routes stopped operating in the area as well as the replacement of the University routes which was done some time ago.

[boronia]

A lot of the UNSW buses were just add-ons at the start or finish of regular shifts, so perhaps not many buses displaced?

[Swift]

If only they'd just reinstate self serve doors and cut the dwell times at each stop. The refusal continues...