New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by tonyp »

I've done a quick sweep of some random journeys after Monday, via both the Anzac Pde and Coogee corridors and, wow, have they pulled off a massive tram-avoidance strategy to appease those angry voters in the SE! It's like winning Lotto to find a journey that actually interchanges with the trams - basically only some, but not all, off-peak services. The peak services seem to heavily rely on the express buses to mid-northern CBD. They heavily tend to recommend walks or even train to complete some journeys, rather than using the tram.

It seems to me, though, that they will ultimately run out of bus capacity going down this path (the chronic issue since 1961) and it's certainly not conducive to the major development strategy proposed for the outer SE. That would now have to wait for the SE metro - or until after the next election.
stupid_girl
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by stupid_girl »

tonyp wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:34 pm I've done a quick sweep of some random journeys after Monday, via both the Anzac Pde and Coogee corridors and, wow, have they pulled off a massive tram-avoidance strategy to appease those angry voters in the SE! It's like winning Lotto to find a journey that actually interchanges with the trams - basically only some, but not all, off-peak services. The peak services seem to heavily rely on the express buses to mid-northern CBD. They heavily tend to recommend walks or even train to complete some journeys, rather than using the tram.

It seems to me, though, that they will ultimately run out of bus capacity going down this path (the chronic issue since 1961) and it's certainly not conducive to the major development strategy proposed for the outer SE. That would now have to wait for the SE metro - or until after the next election.
I think it makes perfect sense and avoid a fare increase.

Why should someone from La Perouse to Circular Quay be forced to take the tram and pay more?
390X+396 is a much better choice and both routes are frequent.

Why should someone from Coogee to Circular Quay be forced to take the tram and pay more?
373+333 is a much better choice and both routes are frequent.
(not to mention that Randwick light rail stop is not close to the bus stop)

https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... Report.pdf
Fare increase for transfers
Some respondents noted that the transfer of
services may incur a fare increase.
Response:
Some customers who transfer from a bus to
light rail may be required to pay more for their
journey under the current Opal fare structure,
however many customers will continue to have
a direct bus or light rail journey available to
their destination.
In the majority of cases where customers no
longer have a direct bus option in the new
network, there will be an option to transfer
between buses to continue your journey
. In
these instances there is no fare increase.
For transferring between different modes, like a
bus to light rail, there is a $2 transfer discount.
tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by tonyp »

I think it goes without saying that there should be no fare penalty for changing between bus and tram and vv. It's pretty disgraceful that they haven't eliminated these penalties and one hopes that that will happen before the metro is opened at least!
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by In Transit »

hornetfig wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:47 pm
stupid_girl wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:09 pm There is a new bus stop right next to Royal Randwick light rail. It's a bity that only 399/X stops here. If 373/X and 374/X makes an additional stop, then it would be a convenient interchange from light rail to bus towards Coogee.
339?

This section is really congested in peak so I can see drivers not wanting the delay and forced merge - lots of similarly positioned stops have been deleted or lost routes for the same reason in the past.
This is exactly why only the 339 and 339X will use this stop - they are already in the left lane as they take the next left turn - and exactly why the other routes passing here will not be using this stop, as they all continue straight and can remain in the centre lane avoiding the often congested left hand lane.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

stupid_girl wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:47 pm
Why should someone from Coogee to Circular Quay be forced to take the tram and pay more?
373+333 is a much better choice and both routes are frequent.
(not to mention that Randwick light rail stop is not close to the bus stop)
Why 373+333? Doesn't the 373 go all the way to CQ?
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stupid_girl
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by stupid_girl »

boronia wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:08 pm
stupid_girl wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:47 pm
Why should someone from Coogee to Circular Quay be forced to take the tram and pay more?
373+333 is a much better choice and both routes are frequent.
(not to mention that Randwick light rail stop is not close to the bus stop)
Why 373+333? Doesn't the 373 go all the way to CQ?
373 will become a loop service to Musuem.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by moa999 »

tonyp wrote:I think it goes without saying that there should be no fare penalty for changing between bus and tram and vv. It's pretty disgraceful that they haven't eliminated these penalties and one hopes that that will happen before the metro is opened at least!
The problem was made worse by the recent hike in 0-3km bus fares (from $2.15 or so to $3.24 in peak).
And no change in the transfer rebate..

Basically they need to jack up the transfer benefits in peak and index them..

Note that in off peak, transferring from mode can save you money.

--

And don't get me on spending $$ millions on free carparks, but then charging people to use a connecting bus.
tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by tonyp »

Commuters may well have the option of staying on one mode or not, but they're now being given the opportunity to interchange. Looking in Journey Planner at the departures from Kingsford interchange in morning peak this coming Monday, enthusiast photographers will have to switch to video to keep up with the stream of buses and trams that will be pouring through the interchange. Very much game on. It will be interesting to see how the traffic light cycles and shared lanes to the north will handle it all.
Linto63
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Linto63 »

Appears that the 373, 374 and 390X are being operated exclusively by artics.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Linto63 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:20 am Appears that the 373, 374 and 390X are being operated exclusively by artics.
Yup looks like 390X is recreating the 500X formula (every 10 mins, and operated fully with artics), guess that’s something better about the 390X
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Swift »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:42 pm
Linto63 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:20 am Appears that the 373, 374 and 390X are being operated exclusively by artics.
Yup looks like 390X is recreating the 500X formula (every 10 mins, and operated fully with artics), guess that’s something better about the 390X
What a shame to see STA doing something right so close to their demise.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Merc1107 »

Would that be the discretion of the operator, though, or a mandate from TfNSW?
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Fleet Lists »

I think it would be the latter in preparation for the handover in April.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Linto63 »

Timetable setting is the responsibility of TfNSW, although State Transit as the operator would have had input particularly around resourcing. Region 9 has been recast with local routes feeding off from core higher frequency services much like was done with regions 7 and 8, so no surprise that the high frequency routes are being operated exclusively by artics like similar routes 100, 333 and 500X.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by J_Busworth »

It is my understanding that the network was designed and timetabled at a TfNSW level regarding where artics would be used in the network. Remember that Region 9 has recently gained a number of artics off Region 6 and is set to gain more this week on the basis of a TfNSW directive, which would suggest that there has been quite a bit of planning behind the use of artics in Region 9.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Stu »

Region 6 is meant only have four artics remaining, the original metrobus trial units 2109 & 2110 (VOLVO B12BLEA), 2111 (Scania K310UA) and 2112 (Scania N310UA).
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

Linto63 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:20 am Appears that the 373, 374 and 390X are being operated exclusively by artics.
Saw a couple on 396 today.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

stupid_girl wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:45 pm
boronia wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:53 pm I don't think it has been mentioned, but is it intended that the new 39xX services will use the Juniors interchange?
No for 392X
Yes for 394X,396X,397X
Surprised to see today that 396 and 399 are also using it. This means that the next stop is up past Strachan St, a long walk either way from the central part of the shopping centre.
Last edited by boronia on Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

At Kingsford interchange today, the bus signage is till showing the 400/400n as the only services. The "next bus" indicators have been out of action for around 6 months. Are the IT guys all on L S Leave or something?

The old bus stop on Anzac Pde near the pedestrian crossing has been covered over with black plastic, a info panel instructing passengers for the 392/X to go to "Stand A" (no indication of where this actually is) and for 396/399 to walk up past Strachan St.
Last edited by boronia on Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

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Stu wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:49 pm Region 6 is meant only have four artics remaining, the original metrobus trial units 2109 & 2110 (VOLVO B12BLEA), 2111 (Scania K310UA) and 2112 (Scania N310UA).
On Weekdays except Tuesday ever since Transit Systems has taken over region 6, there has been an artic working route 751S in the afternoon from Sylvania High School to Kogarah which is worked in the morning by Transdev as route S256. I guess that wont happen after this. I could not check this afternoon because of the strike.

I have only managed to get a usuable photo of it https://www.flickr.com/photos/193972346 ... 686200239/ a couple of weeks ago.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Linto63 »

Volgren bodied Volvo artics 2062 and 2076 out on region 9 services this afternoon still with Transit Systems stickers, accreditation and shift boards. Route 343 that AFAIK has always been operated by rigids is now seeing artics.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

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That confirms that the 2062 of which I got the photo, has gone to region 9.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Swift »

Probably glad to get rid of them for their fuel consumption and constant suspension problems.
Two of the prototypes are far more fuel efficient.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Stu wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:49 pm Region 6 is meant only have four artics remaining, the original metrobus trial units 2109 & 2110 (VOLVO B12BLEA), 2111 (Scania K310UA) and 2112 (Scania N310UA).
Your forgetting Volvo B12BLEA 1701 witch would be one of the 2 euro 3 artics that got placed in the Metrobus service after the L21 became the M52 is still running in region 6 still wearing it's metrobus livery
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Stu »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:45 pm
Stu wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:49 pm Region 6 is meant only have four artics remaining, the original metrobus trial units 2109 & 2110 (VOLVO B12BLEA), 2111 (Scania K310UA) and 2112 (Scania N310UA).
Your forgetting Volvo B12BLEA 1701 witch would be one of the 2 euro 3 artics that got placed in the Metrobus service after the L21 became the M52 is still running in region 6 still wearing it's metrobus livery
I forgot about this one.

1701 was transferred from Region 8 Mona Vale to Region 9 Port Botany for the purpose of the metrobus route 10 (renumbered M10) which was on trial. The bus had some seats removed as well as additional panels in the roof to hide the air-con units. When the Volvo B12BLEA Volgren bodies units were being commissioned into service, 1701 was moved to Tempe as more metrobus routes were being introduced and eventually spent almost 6 years at Ryde for metrobus routes M52 & M54.

Because there were only two of these type of Volvo B12BLEA Custom Coaches body with 1.5 doors in Region 7, they were transferred away to Region 6.
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