State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

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J_Busworth
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by J_Busworth »

25 Oranas remain in the East as of this morning. 15 L113s at Randwick and 10 B10s at Waverley. To think 2 months ago there were 61 Oranas in the East :(
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Swift »

Aren't some only 22 years old? Why so eager to dispose of them? They still look and feel modern and actually look newer than a lot of the younger fleet.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Swift wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:28 pm Aren't some only 22 years old? Why so eager to dispose of them? They still look and feel modern and actually look newer than a lot of the younger fleet.
There are a few Melbourne based operators withdrawing their fleets of 1999-2001 built O405HNs and B10BLEs witch would be around the same age as the STA B10BLEs
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

At least those Melbourne buses are finding new homes / uses after withdrawal and will continue to live on, same with the Transperth O405NH's. The only ones that went for scrap were CNG units (Tho I am aware of a small number existing as static non runnable units)

Which is a shame the same can't be said for Sydney side of things, do not pass go, do not find a new owner go directly for scrapping.

Would've been neat if Charter operators could've taken up these withdrawn B10's & L113CRL's as there's definitely possibly a market for them, I know of one operator in my region with an ex STA B10BLE bus and there would be another running around in Gosford (tho that one I've never personally seen).

I don't expect everything to be saved, it isn't a perfect world we live in but for something that still has life in it, scrapping it is a waste. If you give it time you'll find the right person to buy it. If it still hasn't sold after a while then maybe it definitely needs to go but just directly scrapping seems a waste in my opinion.

Hoping some small number can escape and make it into preservation if all else fails.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Swift »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:35 pm
Swift wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:28 pm Aren't some only 22 years old? Why so eager to dispose of them? They still look and feel modern and actually look newer than a lot of the younger fleet.
There are a few Melbourne based operators withdrawing their fleets of 1999-2001 built O405HNs and B10BLEs witch would be around the same age as the STA B10BLEs
Do they have the same age limits though?
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by 1whoknows »

Melbourne route buses generally come off contract at 18-20 years but, if desired, can be retained by the operator for non contract duties (rail fleets or school charter) for several more years.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Linto63 »

ScaniaGrenda wrote: Would've been neat if Charter operators could've taken up these withdrawn B10's & L113CRL's as there's definitely possibly a market for them
Some L113s have passed to private operators, North Sydney Bus Charters have 4. In terms of the Volvos, Transport Brisbane withdrew its very similar examples that were built at the same time in 2014/15. Back when State Transit (and most other Australian government operators) used to dispose of buses after 12-15 years, many would go on to have long afterlives, but now that they are retained for 25 years, most go straight for scrap.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by tonyp »

Full size route buses on European chassis start going into decline after 15 years and are only fit for scrap by 25. Chinese buses aren't built for a long life and are likely to be retired by 15 years.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Merc1107 »

That said, Eastern Europe (and beyond) seem quite happy to take the young retirements of the West and extract a full usable life from the vehicles.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Linto63 »

European chassis, as in those operating in Europe, tend to have shorter lives because of roads being gritted with salt to melt snow. Plenty of European chassis operating here have gone well beyond 25 years. Some Leyland Worldmaster, Mercedes O305 and Volvo B58s have operated for over 40 years after being rebodied, while some of ACTION's Renaults are now over 30 years old. As to how long Chinese built buses, we will have to ait and see.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by tonyp »

I'm talking about the body and chassis considered as a whole. If one goes before the other, what goes earlier determines the life of the bus in frontline service. I'm not talking about continuing second tier service or motorhome conversions.

I think the mandatory frontline service cut-off for European diesel buses is something under 15 years iirc (much longer for electric buses of course). Certainly the buses physically last longer. Those countries running older buses often don't have the legal mandate or can't afford replacements.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Merc1107 »

To me the young age restrictions are foolish, and only result in more finite resources being dug out of the ground to build a replacement for something that may well be working perfectly. I would like to think this won't be the case with electrics ... but then, buses built to last 30yrs don't make money for the manufacturer, do they?

Linto is correct about the examples of O305s, B58s etc giving stellar service here in Australia. Some of those have now spent longer in their second lives as charter vehicles than they did with the original owners. They keep on going - some doing more work each day than many public route buses. That is a great testament to the simplicity of these buses. While computers have brought advancement for emissions and comfort, their lifespan and availability (plus that of the sensors and other doodads) is questionable - a computer failure can now render doors, airconditioning and lighting inoperable in one fell swoop.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Stonesourscotty »

If your going to not build new buses every 25 then you either need to rebuild or refurbish buses to modern standards
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by tonyp »

Stonesourscotty wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:39 am If your going to not build new buses every 25 then you either need to rebuild or refurbish buses to modern standards
There isn't too much needed on a modern commuter bus. The decor has been much the same for decades now. It's not like your kitchen looking dated. Upholstery might need renewing. Trolleybuses have lived with this for generations as they are typically good for 25 or 30 years, trams even more so. The biggest issue would be the electronic systems, like updating PIDs, installing cameras etc.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by boronia »

Stonesourscotty wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:39 am If your going to not build new buses every 25 then you either need to rebuild or refurbish buses to modern standards
The life of a bus is primarily dictated by its chassis and body strengths. Any metal will "fatigue" over time; using stronger metals for longer life can create more weight. Using "exotic" lighter metals in build can increase the cost. It comes down to cost vs benefit mathematics.

How many people would keep their primary car for 20-25 years?
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by tonyp »

boronia wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:59 pm
How many people would keep their primary car for 20-25 years?
Me.

A local acquaintance is still daily-driving their 55 year-old Austin 1800, still as sound as when in its infancy. You see lots of 25+ years old BMWs, Ford Falcons driving around here. Those brands in particular just keep on going and going. The rapid advance of electronic gizmos probably plays more role in the life of new cars now than the actual build quality of the car and engine themselves. Battery cars may have a short life as few will be able to afford to replace the batteries when life-expired and there'll be no second hand market for them for that reason.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Noel »

Waverley lost four B12BLEs to Randwick on Christmas Eve which is likely to have displaced more low floor Scania's. The numbers are starting to dwindle.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Linto63 »

The corner of Waverley depot where the remaining Volvo B10BLEs stable was empty this afternoon at 1520. In recent weeks even in peak hour there were always some present. Maybe they have left the building?
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by J_Busworth »

Linto63 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:38 pm The corner of Waverley depot where the remaining Volvo B10BLEs stable was empty this afternoon at 1520. In recent weeks even in peak hour there were always some present. Maybe they have left the building?
They would have all been out in service this afternoon. I noticed multiple of them operating on 350s around that time.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by idontknow556 »

The Scania L113CRL replacements have arrived, it will most likely be the Yutong electrics
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Swift »

They should have converted the Scanias to electric and kept them on for another 10 years and granted an age exemption to them. Would have been way cheaper.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Linto63 »

No chance, would cost more to rebuild than start afresh.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by GriffinRoads1 »

Went onto google maps and found a ton of Oranas at Port Botany depot, guessing that's just where they're dumping them until they're disposed of. It's the same spot the Citaro's were stored at.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Slowly becoming the end of another era in our transportation history.

Despite these Ansairs being around for the past 20+ years, I rode my first Scania L113CRL back in December of last year with Transit Systems to Domain on possibly the 461 or close about (hard to believe I've done numerous trips to Sydney in my life but have never ridden the L113CRL's, mostly due to time constraints) as I prioritised getting photos of them over riding.

They most definitely are showing their age even more so on the interior with their type of bucket style seats and chipping poles & dated fittings tho are still another Australian classic (well 50% given the chassis is Swedish) however I still love them. Sydney & Newcastle (In remembering there is also B10 APG Ansairs up here) would be the only places left in Australia still using these low entry Ansair buses in commercial route service. Brissy retired theirs a decade ago but their numerous B10L's remain with various charter operators.

Really happy to still see some kicking on but with time running out for these I suppose we'll have to make the most & best of it. Shame they won't all continue onto a 2nd life with Charter operators which is rough but as long as their history is documented & preserved (through what can also be kept of them) they'll still remain with us even long after their time is wound up.

If Ansett hadn't collapsed, I wonder what their future releases would've looked like and whether they would've continued to go on with Bus Building or eventually wind down the operation.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Post by Merc1107 »

Not only are the Orana B10Ls getting about with charter operators, but, out west (and maybe elsewhere, depending on age limits), the Orana-rebodied O305s are still doing the rounds in modest numbers.
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