Use of Back Door on Buses

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by J_Busworth »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:17 pm A refusal or hesitation for bus drivers in the the western suburbs to use the rear door might be due to the high number of public housing estates or suburbs that only consist of government funded housing
Surely the private school kids on the North Shore and Eastern Suburbs are just as bad! Most people in public housing are just trying to get by and need the bus, whereas there are some entitled brats who like to mess around as if there are no consequences...

All door boarding for school services sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

J_Busworth wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:12 pm
Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:17 pm A refusal or hesitation for bus drivers in the the western suburbs to use the rear door might be due to the high number of public housing estates or suburbs that only consist of government funded housing
Surely the private school kids on the North Shore and Eastern Suburbs are just as bad! Most people in public housing are just trying to get by and need the bus, whereas there are some entitled brats who like to mess around as if there are no consequences...

All door boarding for school services sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
I think the Busways driver dealing with a full load of trouble making teens witch live in public housing while operating a school service between a public housing area and the closest western district high school would be way worse off then a STA driver dealing with a full load rich private high school brats. So all door loading for school services could work as could all door loading for regular services
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

School services have to board through the front door because drivers have to see their passes. Also we're not talking about lost time at stops impacting on the efficiency of the journey. All door boarding is linked to prepaid fares and compliance policing by RPOs (or to fare-free travel of course).
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by rogf24 »

All door boarding for schools? No less unsafe than for regular services, even when there's a tree and uneven surface at the stop. Just do it already. Picture was taken before the pandemic. Image
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Swift »

J_Busworth wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:12 pm
Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:17 pm A refusal or hesitation for bus drivers in the the western suburbs to use the rear door might be due to the high number of public housing estates or suburbs that only consist of government funded housing
Surely the private school kids on the North Shore and Eastern Suburbs are just as bad! Most people in public housing are just trying to get by and need the bus, whereas there are some entitled brats who like to mess around as if there are no consequences...

All door boarding for school services sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Every area has those insolent turds who are beneath a piece of catshit you just stepped on!
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

rogf24 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:14 pm All door boarding for schools? No less unsafe than for regular services, even when there's a tree and uneven surface at the stop. Just do it already. Picture was taken before the pandemic.
Is that in Sydney? I hope RTBU doesn't see it, can't have hypocrisy being exposed. Private bus drivers go nuts if students don't enter through the front doors because drivers can get hauled over the coals if they haven't checked passes as directed by TfNSW. Surely the same applies at STA?
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Fleet Lists »

I think it is a Transit Systems bus.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by rogf24 »

Transit Systems and yes in Sydney too. And Region 6 so RTBU. Also, this was at a school, so it was the first stop where no one could alight anyway yet the centre door was open and students used it.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Swift »

Nothing whatsoever unsafe about what's in that picture but the Tuberculosis Union would doggedly condemn that.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

For all door loading to work buses would need to have double leaf centre doors and some type of full vehicle lower to curb air hydraulic kneeling system so older people can have a option of borading though the centre door without any issues
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by rogf24 »

Those aren't reasons to not do all-door boarding. Not many of the buses in Melbourne have double-leaf doors and that's not stopping them from doing all-door boarding in the coming months*. Elderly can continue to use the front door.

*Though I say again it's regularly done today anyway thanks to passengers that are more willing to break the rules regularly in Melbourne and that the single-leaf centre door isn't causing much of an issue.

And I saw the Baylink Shuttle (a non TfNSW bus service) back in 2018 doing all-door boarding with single-leaf too.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Swift »

Monkey see monkey do. Not hard to teach old dog new tricks. Much harder to train the NSW bus industry on all levels however.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

Double leaf doors are preferable but any type of door is possible. In a lot of European buses, the narrowest door is the front door because that's typically the least-used. Most people board and exit through the rear doors. When the practice takes hold, this is what will happen here too, so the sooner the agencies set a minimum standard of double leaf centre/rear doors, the better. However, this is all just talk in NSW. What I found out during the time that the virus situation started is that the attitude of RTBU (with NSW TWU tagging along tamely) is absolutely rigid. With TfNSW in on it too we're dealing with granite-like resistance. I did once say roll out the trams, but look what happened there, so now I'd say roll out the metro. The more bus routes replaced as soon as possible, the better.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:29 pm Double leaf doors are preferable but any type of door is possible. In a lot of European buses, the narrowest door is the front door because that's typically the least-used. Most people board and exit through the rear doors. When the practice takes hold, this is what will happen here too, so the sooner the agencies set a minimum standard of double leaf centre/rear doors, the better. However, this is all just talk in NSW. What I found out during the time that the virus situation started is that the attitude of RTBU (with NSW TWU tagging along tamely) is absolutely rigid. With TfNSW in on it too we're dealing with granite-like resistance. I did once say roll out the trams, but look what happened there, so now I'd say roll out the metro. The more bus routes replaced as soon as possible, the better.
At least Transport For NSW has mandated the installation of a centre door on all new contracted buses. If they didn't mandate the centre door then most contracted operators in Sydney would be still be ordering front accessed only one door buses
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Swift »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:08 am At least Transport For NSW has mandated the installation of a centre door on all new contracted buses. If they didn't mandate the centre door then most contracted operators in Sydney would be still be ordering front accessed only one door buses
Thank heavens for that. Credit where it's due. Imagine the glut of single door buses the system would be stuck with for 20+ years if not for that life saving move by TNSW?
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

Flashed across my news today, DPP Prague is retiring and donating to museums its second series of fully low-floor buses dating back about 15 years Karosa Agoras/Irisbus Citelis (like the ones in Canberra and Perth), the previous low-floor Agoras dating back to 1996 having already been retired as they pass the mandatory bus-retirement dates. In this video they're celebrating 24 years of operating fully low floor city buses.

https://www.facebook.com/DopravniPodnik ... 3749058685

Meanwhile, in NSW we're still buying new buses with stepped doorways and high floors. Canberra has even managed to go backwards, starting well with the ex Kings Agoras and then reverting worse and worse as the years go on, finishing up with Bustechs. Then they decide to introduce all-door loading ..... :roll:
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:56 am Meanwhile, in NSW we're still buying new buses with stepped doorways and high floors.
Something says that operators in Sydney need to be told by someone from Transport For NSW that has a actually been somewhere where full flat floor aisleway/doorway buses are the main type of bus in use the differences between the perferred low entry flat floor to centre door layout and the full flat floor aisleway/doorway layout
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:02 pm Something says that operators in Sydney need to be told by someone from Transport For NSW that has a actually been somewhere where full flat floor aisleway/doorway buses are the main type of bus in use the differences between the perferred low entry flat floor to centre door layout and the full flat floor aisleway/doorway layout
Plus, the problem with the Bustechs is that they don't even have the low entry flat floor extending to the centre door.

There's some awareness of the issues emerging in Victoria and Queensland, but in general the Australian bus sector is still stuck about 25 years back. Nobody in TfNSW would understand anything about operational efficiencies - issues like passenger exchange and internal passenger flows and distribution - and how improved design engineering could increase productivity. I haven't looked at figures since a couple of years back, but DPP Prague carries about 360 million people per annum over a similar-sized network with about 1,150 buses while STA as it then was needed about 2,000 buses to move less than 200 million ppa. The answer in NSW to poor productivity is to throw more buses at the problem, money no object, and the politicians and auditors don't have the knowledge to know that there's a better solution. In any case, the unions in NSW put the lid on the notion of improved efficiencies too, so we're stuft.

A few years back, my answer was to roll out the trams as quickly as possible, but since they've stuft that too, I believe the faster they roll out the complete metro network, the better. Take the pressure off both the suburban network and the buses as much as possible. Much higher capacity, far better productivity and no unions.

I do think it's amusing that in Europe they're already putting in museums buses that are more advanced than any latest new bus currently in everyday service here.
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