Opal Discussion and Observations

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Merc1107
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

mattyc wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:37 pm
If you’re not willing to keep up technology, you’ll get left behind. Simple.

I haven’t used an Opal card for years - just tapping my phone on and off, never had a single fare issue and always made my trains.

I know I’ll get flamed down for this post, but just saying it as it is. It’s 2022, technology is king, adapt or get left behind.
Don't come crying when you drop your phone (or it's stolen), and your every means of communication, payment, proof of identity/vaccination etc is completely lost.

It is foolhardy to rely so heavily on one device for so much, when they are so vulnerable to damage, theft and planned obsolescence. Wallets aren't exactly thiefproof, but losing your wallet doesn't mean losing your means of communication, nor do you have to spend a grand on a new one whenever Apple says so.

As already pointed out, the industry supporting EFTPOS systems is worth trillions. We all pay for that - sometimes only card users, sometimes everyone pays a few cents more. I notice debit and credit card users (especially AMEX) are still flogged a few percent on many purchases. I also notice that card-only businesses are not offering discounts for the supposed "savings" from not handling cash.

I have no issue with technology, particularly where it offers redundancy to conventional technology if something goes wrong. But when we try to reinvent the wheel, and simply use technology as a means of advancing rampant, unsustainable consumerism, no. No one, except Silicon Valley, benefits from the rapid upgrade cycle needed for us to be so reliant on smartphones.
Tap-cards for buses may be soooooo 2006, but it's effortless. Having to go through the motions with the phone just to get on and off, seems a retrograde step.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Swift »

mattyc wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:37 pm How is this thread still taking about cash and top ups. It’s 2022 people, use a bank card to tap on and off. Simple. Cash is dying - it’s extremely expensive to maintain (not only from a logistics perspective but also business insurance).

And don’t give me the usual ‘technology’ complaint - every generation goes through it. Think about B&W television to colour, records to CD’s, VHS to DVD’s. The old fuddy-duddy rhetoric just doesn’t cut it.

If you’re not willing to keep up technology, you’ll get left behind. Simple.

I haven’t used an Opal card for years - just tapping my phone on and off, never had a single fare issue and always made my trains.

I know I’ll get flamed down for this post, but just saying it as it is. It’s 2022, technology is king, adapt or get left behind.
Tell that to the myriad Australian retail outlets who still insist on cash only due to the stupid fees the banks charge for this non cash method. So much for cash being expensive to maintain.

Not everyone want nor need these smartphone gadgets that spy on us and cost through the nose to purchase.

Not everyone wants to be forced into unwanted and costly tech just to go about their business day to day.

Those are weak examples using home entertainment devices as an argument.
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boronia
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

You don't need a smartphone for everyday financial transactions, a simple plastic card still does the same thing.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by TheOpalUser »

Park&Ride is now on Transport Connect (previously Opal Connect) – https://transportnsw.info/transport-connect/parkride
Using either an accepted Opal card or via your Transport Connect account, Park&Ride allows you to access up to 18 hours free parking each day when you complete a public transport journey.

By linking your Park&Ride with Transport Connect, there's no need to tap out when you leave the car park and all your parking history is available online.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

mattyc wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:37 pm How is this thread still taking about cash and top ups. It’s 2022 people, use a bank card to tap on and off. Simple. Cash is dying - it’s extremely expensive to maintain (not only from a logistics perspective but also business insurance).

And don’t give me the usual ‘technology’ complaint - every generation goes through it. Think about B&W television to colour, records to CD’s, VHS to DVD’s. The old fuddy-duddy rhetoric just doesn’t cut it.

If you’re not willing to keep up technology, you’ll get left behind. Simple.

I haven’t used an Opal card for years - just tapping my phone on and off, never had a single fare issue and always made my trains.

I know I’ll get flamed down for this post, but just saying it as it is. It’s 2022, technology is king, adapt or get left behind.
You more or less give the impression that a cashless, technological way of living ‘should’ be mandatory in today’s world. You’d be surprised at the number of people not all us ‘oldies’ who want nothing to do with it. As I mentioned in a much earlier post, our local Woolworths has gone from 6/8 card auto checkouts, to now only 1/8. People are fed up with being ripped off and rightly so, technology isn’t the wonder pill its made out to be and never will be.

It isn’t a matter of folks not keeping up with technology, it’s a matter of choice. As far as I know, we’re still a free society (for the time being) and with that, so long as cash is still currency, people will and should have the choice to pay their way in life by that means.

On this subject of the Opal card, the thing is just another money spinner for someone. But to the point of this thread, the purpose of my discussion on the topic is that the system is flawed. And until those in Macquarie street get their collective heads out of the sand and realise that not everyone is on the ‘technology’ bandwagon, nor should they be forced to be; the sooner we’ll have a fairer society.

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boronia
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Oh for the good old days of trading and bartering.

"Here's your shopping, Mr Ooogabalooga. That will be 2 goats and 3 chickens please. Sorry, we don't accept that newfangled "cash" here".

120 years ago, the horse and cart was a popular form of transport on our roads. They are still legal, but how many do you see these days?
Last edited by boronia on Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Linto63 »

Using debit (and in most cases credit cards) doesn't cost any more than paying with cash. Credit cards aren't exactly a new thing, they have been around since the 1970s, albeit now more refined and widely available, but the concept is the same.

The percentage of business done with it has been declining for years, will continue to do so and as the cost per transaction of handling cash rises, inevitably more businesses will go cashless. Cash will never die as long as there is a market for people want to conduct business off the books, but the number of businesses that will accept it will decline.

Opal wasn't introduced as a money spinner, but as a 21st century ticketing system to replace one that was old hat. Most if not all other major cities around the world have done the same thing.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

Linto63 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:44 am Using debit (and in most cases credit cards) doesn't cost any more than paying with cash. Credit cards aren't exactly a new thing, they have been around since the 1970s, albeit now more refined and widely available, but the concept is the same.
So why the surcharges on debit/credit to pay bills, airfares, at the petrol station on AMEX, Diner's Club, the local Chinese takeaway (there's a certain type of EFT terminal laced with foreign characters that are a telltale for a surcharge!)?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

boronia wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:42 am Oh for the good old days of trading and bartering.

"Here's your shopping, Mr Ooogabalooga. That will be 2 goats and 3 chickens please. Sorry, we don't accept that newfangled "cash" here".

120 years ago, the horse and cart was a popular form of transport on our roads. They are still legal, but how many do you see these days?
We almost lost our youngest daughter because of this 'advanced technology' so you might understand why I am so bitter about anything connected with it. Like the saying goes, "Old school still works"
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Swift »

boronia wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:42 am

120 years ago, the horse and cart was a popular form of transport on our roads. They are still legal, but how many do you see these days?
That goes back to choice. People chose to abandon horse and cart because it actually was a better way using a mechanical means.
This cashless is being imposed.
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Linto63
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Linto63 »

Merc1107 wrote: So why the surcharges on debit/credit to pay bills, airfares, at the petrol station on AMEX, Diner's Club, the local Chinese takeaway
Most of these are avoidable. If you pay bills by bank transfer / Bpay there is no surcharge. Airlines do charge, but at least it now is representative of their costs rather than the highway robbery where some charged up to $70. Amex and Diners Club have much higher merchant fees, hence why many retailers won't accept, or pass on a surcharge for the privilege. A surcharge on Mastercard or Visa is never charged at petrol stations. The local Chinese may charge a surcharge as they like cash that can fall onto the floor.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Merc1107 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:02 pm
Linto63 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:44 am Using debit (and in most cases credit cards) doesn't cost any more than paying with cash. Credit cards aren't exactly a new thing, they have been around since the 1970s, albeit now more refined and widely available, but the concept is the same.
So why the surcharges on debit/credit to pay bills, airfares, at the petrol station on AMEX, Diner's Club, the local Chinese takeaway (there's a certain type of EFT terminal laced with foreign characters that are a telltale for a surcharge!)?
When cards were introduced, all the merchant processing was done manually. Your card was placed into a small machine which imprinted your details (and the merchants) onto a self carbonated 3 piece docket. The seller would have to write in details of the sale and the amounts. If the sale was over a certain amount, the seller would have to ring a call centre, give the buyer's details and get an authorisation number to write on the docket. At the end of the day/week, the merchant would have to fill out a "deposit slip" and take it with all the dockets to a bank teller to process.

It would take a few days for the merchant to get the money (less the bank fees), and the buyer could wait for up to a month to get a statement with his balance.

BUT, there were no surcharges imposed on the customer for all this. Merchants were expected to recover the costs from their retail mark ups. This sneaky little ploy of CC surcharges is a relatively new phenomenon, at a time when the actual processing costs are much lower.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by TheOpalUser »

Tap and travel for free from 14 to 25 April - https://transportnsw.info/free-travel
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

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"Tap and travel free" will bring the conspiracy theorists out in large numbers. "Why do we have to tap if it's free?"
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

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I think that is pretty well explained - they still want the trip statistics.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

boronia wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:25 pm "Tap and travel free" will bring the conspiracy theorists out in large numbers. "Why do we have to tap if it's free?"
If paper tickets are still available from railway stations (etc), are they dispensing free tickets at present?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Aurora »

Single trip tickets will be available, although they will be at their regular price. One will need a valid Opal card or contactless method to get the free fare.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

Interesting. One would think door counters across all modes would alleviate the need to tap on/off to ascertain live and longer-term passenger loadings.

It's all well and good to say the data is used "to better plan services", but is it? Doubt that anyone here can (or would) answer such a question, although it's worth asking when even that certain city in the West, idolised for its relative perfection, has been found by the Auditor-General not to make any use of smart-card data other than determining total patronage. World-leaders in transport indeed...
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Glen »

Door counters don't give you origin/destination data.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Free travel during a holiday period is likely to result in a lot of "non-standard" travel patterns, which might be of little relevance unless they plan on doing the sane thing next Easter?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

Glen wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:56 pm Door counters don't give you origin/destination data.
No they don't; point being, IF the origin/destination data is seldom-used, what is the point?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Perth seems to have distance based fares, so tap off is necessary regardless. Travel data would be a bonus if they wish to use it.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by temer1ty »

I think it's because the station access fee still applies at the airport stations
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

It has been known Opal travel data can be used to assist with crime investigations. I imagine there will be a lot more offending especially people refusing to outright wear masks which is mandatory on public transport and have not bothered applying for and being in possession of a valid medical exemption except for maybe open alcohol containers, knife or cannabis. I wonder if Transport Officers will be out in force to assist with customer queries and provide compliant Opal card usage education and issuing cautions/$200 fees for said unsolicited education.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Swift »

Wanted offenders would be more likely to fare evade therefore not picked up.
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