Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

[alleve]

Town Hall needs platform doors, although that requires trains to have a common door pattern and stop accurately. We have neither.

Actually, we have both. All trains that regularly run around the City Circle and on the T1/4/9 have the same door spacings. V Sets have a different door spacing, but don't run through the city except for in trackwork, which is an arrangement that could be avoided if need be. So tick on the door spacing in the city stations.

As for the stopping accurately, our trains are good enough. There are numerous cities around the world that use platform screen doors on human driven systems. The solution to human inaccuracy? Wider doors that account for if a train is a bit off. Our trains aren't any more inaccurate than those overseas - you can see this for yourself by standing at Chatswood and watching trains arrive, and seeing how they line up with the door markers on the platform. Wide platform screen doors equals tick on that one too.

So really there's nothing preventing us from having platform screen doors on Sydney Trains stations (except stations like Sydney Terminal, Macarthur, Epping, Hornsby, etc that share platforms between Sydney Trains, V Sets, Endeavours, XPTs, historical trains, etc).

Platform screen doors won't solve dwell times though. They just lower the chances of some idiot walking onto the tracks.

[Bus 400]

PSDs aren't going to solve the double decks' dwell time and internal passenger distribution issues. I mean what would you do? Shut the doors after 30 seconds and let the crowds who couldn't make it on board increasingly block up the platforms and up the stairs? And trains leave loaded with less than capacity. Then the complaints start pouring in.

It's probably too late now. But when first introduced, passengers should have been taught to board in the rear doors & exit the front doors of each carriage. Back in the day, it would have discounts crowding around the doors too.


Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

[Campbelltown busboy]

Town Hall needs platform doors, although that requires trains to have a common door pattern and stop accurately. We have neither.

Actually, we have both. All trains that regularly run around the City Circle and on the T1/4/9 have the same door spacings. V Sets have a different door spacing, but don't run through the city except for in trackwork, which is an arrangement that could be avoided if need be. So tick on the door spacing in the city stations.

As for the stopping accurately, our trains are good enough. There are numerous cities around the world that use platform screen doors on human driven systems. The solution to human inaccuracy? Wider doors that account for if a train is a bit off. Our trains aren't any more inaccurate than those overseas - you can see this for yourself by standing at Chatswood and watching trains arrive, and seeing how they line up with the door markers on the platform. Wide platform screen doors equals tick on that one too.

So really there's nothing preventing us from having platform screen doors on Sydney Trains stations (except stations like Sydney Terminal, Macarthur, Epping, Hornsby, etc that share platforms between Sydney Trains, V Sets, Endeavours, XPTs, historical trains, etc).

Platform screen doors won't solve dwell times though. They just lower the chances of some idiot walking onto the tracks.

Isn’t dwell time a timetable issue there are some intermediate stations where trains are sitting with doors open for 2 or 3 minutes the dwell time should be no longer then 30 seconds unless it’s a interchange station like Glenfield or Sutherland where a train is waiting for a connecting service on another platform

[Transtopic]

The trains you catch will have more demand and more stops sure, but will also come more often. Hurstville all stops will come more often than every ten minutes when the signalling upgrades are over. So you won't be worse off

The ESR can already run trains at sub 2.5-minute intervals, I regularly see it at Redfen when there is a disruption. They don't table that frequency as there is no scope for error. One train at Town Hall with 'boarding difficulties' and the system clogs up for the rest of the peak hour.

Town Hall needs platform doors, although that requires trains to have a common door pattern and stop accurately. We have neither.

The proposed frequency of 20tph for T4 on the ESR, as well as 18tph for T8 on the Airport Line, will be with the existing signalling. To the best of my knowledge, the digital signalling upgrade which will allow for an increase to 24tph hasn't been completed yet or even started, although trials have been underway on sections of T4 for some time. There hasn't been much publicity about the status of the digital and ATO upgrades for quite a while, although contracts have been awarded to Siemens Mobility. My understanding is that the Tangara upgrade is now only limited to ATP and will no longer include provision for future ATO. As the Tangaras are the fleet allocated to T4, this may possibly be the reason why full ATO has been delayed until the fleet is replaced.

The MTMS program does specifically mention the proposed future installation of PSDs on some of the busier stations, particularly in the CBD. This would only be feasible when ATO is fully implemented on a specific line, which would allow for accurate stopping to align with the PSDs without the variable driver input. After opening and closing the doors, whether by driver or guard, the driver then starts the train until the next station stop.

With regard to common door patterns, I don't see this as being a major obstacle. There is no reason why wider door spacing for PSDs couldn't be provided to allow for the variable door spacing between the older and newer DD suburban rolling stock, where there is only a marginal difference anyway. Over time, the DD fleet will have a common door spacing. There could even be provision for future compatible SD train door spacing at 3 doors per car for 8 car trains of the same length.

Rubber gap fillers, which have already been trialed, could be installed along the length of the PSD openings to prevent passengers alighting and boarding from falling through the gap. The major benefit of the PSDs, aside from the gap when the train is in the platform, is to prevent passengers from falling from the platform to the track, particularly when platforms are overcrowded.

It is unlikely that the NIF in 10 car format, let alone the New Regional fleet, would stop at the CBD underground stations, although they could still pass through without stopping in the event of emergency diversions. Provision could also be made at the limited number of suburban stations such as Strathfield, Parramatta, Campbelltown and Hornsby where the 10 car NIF and Regional fleet stop.

Obviously, this isn't going to happen overnight, but neither are the proposed new metro lines for that matter.

[Glen]

The ESR can already run trains at sub 2.5-minute intervals, I regularly see it at Redfen when there is a disruption. They don't table that frequency as there is no scope for error.

They used to on the City Underground in the 1930's.

[Transtopic]

The ESR can already run trains at sub 2.5-minute intervals, I regularly see it at Redfen when there is a disruption. They don't table that frequency as there is no scope for error. One train at Town Hall with 'boarding difficulties' and the system clogs up for the rest of the peak hour.

Town Hall needs platform doors, although that requires trains to have a common door pattern and stop accurately. We have neither.

PSDs aren't going to solve the double decks' dwell time and internal passenger distribution issues. I mean what would you do? Shut the doors after 30 seconds and let the crowds who couldn't make it on board increasingly block up the platforms and up the stairs? And trains leave loaded with less than capacity. Then the complaints start pouring in.

PSDs are effective with single deck metro-type operations where the dwells are already quick with three or four doors per car and all you want to do is make the dwells more precise and safe.

I don't think that there is any suggestion that PSDs alone will significantly reduce DD dwell times. This is reflected in the fact that the longer dwell times for DD, which is only at a limited number of stations, will restrict potential frequency to 24tph with the digital upgrades, compared with the metro's 30tph. Improved journey times will be achieved with other factors as mentioned previously. The PSDs combined with gap fillers however will still be a contributing factor, while maintaining a safer environment reducing the risk of delays caused by track encroachments, like passengers falling into the gap or the track between trains.

We're also talking about how to improve performance on the existing rail network, rather than replacing it with new metro lines. We're not starting with a clean sheet, where the strategy would be completely different. The City Circle, nor I suggest other ST lines, aren't going to be converted to metro, so just accept that fact, when there are alternative strategies to improve performance at far less cost and without the disruption in converting the lines for only marginal benefit. New segregated metro lines are a completely different scenario.

[Swift]

If the trains overshoot the mark, slam it into reverse. Have doors that only open when the doors align enough.

[Transtopic]

If the trains overshoot the mark, slam it into reverse. Have doors that only open when the doors align enough.

Well that is possible, but not ideal. There could be wider PSDs to allow for driver variation in stopping, not to mention the marginal difference in door spacing in current DD rolling stock. I still think that is more likely to be deferred until ATO is rolled out.

[alleve]

If the trains overshoot the mark, slam it into reverse. Have doors that only open when the doors align enough.

This is already what happens on the metro. No reason why Sydney Trains could not do the same

[tonyp]

PSDs will be incompatible with the guard's door being open (and the guard hanging out of it) when trains arrive and depart. Good luck with that rerun of the NIF union dispute. Their only real benefit on the suburban system will be stopping people falling on the tracks.

[Aurora]

If the trains overshoot the mark, slam it into reverse. Have doors that only open when the doors align enough.

This is already what happens on the metro. No reason why Sydney Trains could not do the same

No, rules prohibit such action in most of the network.

[Randomness]

I’m guessing it’s because of starting signals usually being placed after a platform? It really shouldn’t be a problem otherwise because the train still occupies the track circuit and you could just create a new bell code to ring the guard (not like they’d be sticking their head out with PSDs anyways) at the back to look out and hit the emergency button if they see anything.

[Linto63]

No, rules prohibit such action in most of the network.

Has been the case for decades. A breach will result in a driver being hauled over the coals.

[alleve]

PSDs will be incompatible with the guard's door being open (and the guard hanging out of it) when trains arrive and depart. Good luck with that rerun of the NIF union dispute.

NIF union dispute re: guards hanging out of doors was a completely different thing. If you were to introduce PSDs on the suburban network tomorrow and had it so that at stations with PSDs guards have to stay in the cabin, there would be no dispute, because there would be no safety issues. The NIF dispute was over a legitimate safety issue. Apples and oranges.

[Linto63]

Let's not pretend that there wasn't an element of feather bedding, hence the NIFs are being de-specced.

[Transport Buff]

Any idea when the Bankstown line shutdown Rail Replacement contract will be announced??

[Swift]

No, rules prohibit such action in most of the network.

Has been the case for decades. A breach will result in a driver being hauled over the coals.

I've seen it happen. It comes across as unprofessional. Not a good look.

[Swift]

More on suspect contractors. Not good.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-31/ ... /103409184

[Glen]

I thought the Metro was out for trackwork this weekend but TripView seems to be showing full train service and a motley collection of bus times as well.

Strange.

[boronia]

https://www.sydneymetro.info/article/me ... nsw.gov.au



Testing is ramping up in the 15.5-kilometre twin metro tunnels between Chatswood and Sydenham, with eight trains successfully travelling on the new track at the same time, double the previous maximum of four trains testing simultaneously.

Testing up to eight trains at once allows the performance of each train to be monitored closely to ensure the new turn-up-and-go metro timetable of a train every four minutes during peak periods can be replicated.

Across the weekend of Saturday 6 and Sunday 7 January, an additional testing milestone was achieved with 33 of all 45 metro trains in the combined fleet completing at least one return journey between Tallawong and Sydenham.

Since the rigorous testing and commissioning program started in April 2023, more than 7,500 hours of a total of 11,000 hours of required testing have been completed.

Extensive noise testing has been completed inside trains and the new tunnels, with microphones and vibration sensors installed, which are sensitive enough to detect a pin drop. This form of testing confirms noise emitted across the network does not exceed predicted noise and vibration comfort levels.

Over the coming months, final integration testing between the trains, signalling and station systems will continue. This includes assessing passenger help points and trialling passenger information displays, before heading into trial running.

When metro services start deep below the Sydney CBD this year, commuters will have access to easy, fast and reliable public transport services with record travel times including from:

Castle Hill to Martin Place in 35 minutes
Macquarie University to Central in 26 minutes
Chatswood to Gadigal in 13 minutes
North Sydney’s Victoria Cross under the harbour to Barangaroo in 3 minutes
Central to Martin Place in 4 minutes
Central to Sydenham in 7 minutes
Sydenham to Chatswood in 22 minutes

[Glen]

Transport for NSW has appointed Transit Systems to enable delivery of the 2024 Temporary Transport Plan for the T3 Sydenham to Bankstown conversion as the line is upgraded for the new Metro.

Under the contract, Transit Systems will provide rail replacement buses while the upgrade work is carried out for 12 months starting between July and October 2024.

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... -transport

[moa999]

So will they be getting a whole new fleet of (electric?) buses? .. much as the operator of Chatswood - Epping got a brand new fleet.

[tonyp]

So will they be getting a whole new fleet of (electric?) buses? .. much as the operator of Chatswood - Epping got a brand new fleet.

I'd say additional electric buses are off the agenda until they can get the charging infrastructure commissioned.

[Stu]

So will they be getting a whole new fleet of (electric?) buses? .. much as the operator of Chatswood - Epping got a brand new fleet.

I could be wrong, however, considering that the rail replacement will start in either July or October this year, the short time frame may prevent a new fleet of electric buses being purchased. There are numerous challenges ahead such as planning approval, construction, installation and testing.

[stupid_girl]

Sydney Metro has 4 weekend closures in March, 2 in April and 2 in May. This is just awful.

Sydney Metro's parent company MTR opened various extensions in its home country Hong Kong (East Rail Line, Kwun Tong Line, Island Line) and all of them opened without disrupting the existing service to this extent. Indeed, I don't think any other metro extension in the world had this level of service disruption.