Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

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Merc1107
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

The Wayback Machine's copy of timetables and maps is hit and miss; it can take a lot of fiddling around to get what you're looking for (it can help to know the filename & date of the timetable when messing around).

A quick search earlier in the thread suggests Route 29 existed briefly as a variation on the 28 after Swan assumed control of the Claremont/Belmont contract in the early 2000s. That would tend to suggest one of the two timetables:
  • Western 33. My oldest digital copy is dated 9/11/03 and doesn't have the 29, and further searching on the Internet Archive going back into mid-2002 doesn't suggest it existed then, either: LINK
  • Fremantle 3. As far as I can tell, it seems only the first page of the 'Fremantle' series timetables are available, and the only example surviving on the Internet Archive is from 2000, prior to the renumbering of 82 to 28: LINK
I also had a look through the archived Metrobus website that you kindly linked, and was interested to see the information about the active fleet at the time, particularly the M.A.N. artics being referred to as 'SG280H', there being just two CNG Renaults and two LPG Mercs reported at the time.
Further to this was the interesting addition of the copies of Metrobus Newspaper, 'MetroMail'.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by PaxInfo »

Merc1107 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:42 pm
Further to this was the interesting addition of the copies of Metrobus Newspaper, 'MetroMail'.
Quick summary of various service changes from 'Metro Mail' (1996-97)

Customer demand has encouraged MetroBus to introduce the following new services in the past month.

The Route 881 City Link service has been extended to operate seven days a week, which offers customers in the area a more efficient service with large coverage over weekends and holidays.
A new Route 45 cross suburban shuttle for Maylands, connects the Maylands Peninsula with the Maylands train station and links across to Inglewood.
A new Route 419 service operating a 15-minute shuttle, links Innaloo Shopping Centre with Stirling train station.
The Route 141 service has been extended to operate seven days a week including holidays, between Atwell and Fremantle station. The route has also been altered giving patrons a more direct access to Fremantle.
Additionally MetroBus has just completed a passenger survey on the Mandurah City Link to gauge the travel patterns and alternatives for current patrons.

---

MetroBus is to provide additional Mandurah CityLink trips from Tuesday, June 4. A submission from MetroBus to operate additional trips through the day has been approved by the Department of Transport. The extra trips through the day will operate at 8.20am and 2.20pm from Perth and at 9.40am and 6.30pm from Mandurah. The submission was based on the results of a market research survey conducted on all Route 107 Mandurah CityLink customers. The results of the survey provide a revealing analysis of those who use the service with 73 per cent of people suggesting that additional trips would be an improvement.

The most encouraging finding from the research is the fact that almost 40 per cent of people who travel on Route 107 (up to 160 people per day) previously travelled to Perth by car. Also pleasing is the level of customers' satisfaction with delivery of the service with 97 per cent rating the convenience of the service as good or very good. A very encouraging 99 per cent of customers rated the attitudes of MetroBus staff as good or very good. This figure is consistent with the recent Passenger Satisfaction Monitor surveys in which customers consistently rate drivers' attitudes at well over 90 per cent. While 94 per cent of customers were satisfied with the length (in time) of the trip, only 70 per cent were satisfied with the times of the return trips to Mandurah.

Of the people surveyed who answered the question, "What can MetroBus do to improve this service", 73 per cent suggested that additional trips during the day would be an improvement. Of this proportion, 63 per cent specifically wanted Mandurah CityLink trips during the day. To reinforce this, of the customers who take the Mandurah CityLink to Perth in the morning, 18 per cent travel back to Mandurah by some other means. Of the people who do return via the Mandurah CityLink, almost half catch the first available coach at 4.50pm.

----
The new and improved CityLink services from Ballajura have increased patronage along this important corridor by almost 45 per cent.

Importantly a large proportion of the increase is attributable to people who did not previously use public transport. More than 40 per cent of respondents in a MetroBus market analysis said they were now using the CityLink services in preference to travelling by car. These figures reflect the similar and continuing patronage increase on the Mandurah CityLink, where again more than 40 per cent of passengers have switched from private cars.

The encouraging boost in patronage has prompted MetroBus to seek out other routes for similar enhancement. The success of the new Route 889, a seven-day service from East Ballajura, and the weekend expansion of Route 887 from Alexander Heights, can also be attributed to judicious marketing from the northern region offices. Information kits and timetables were delivered to every home within one kilometre of the two routes, highlighting the five to eight minute frequency of services on work days. Service frequency and the close proximity of bus stops were the key reasons for using the CityLink by those who had a choice.

Other promotions were held in conjunction with the Dianella Plaza shopping centre and the Mount Lawley campus of Edith Cowan University. During July more displays are to be held at shopping centres along the routes. Much of the market analysis feedback to date has been provided with the help of Malaga bus operators who administered passenger questionnaires, specifically on Route 889 trips. That feedback showed that MetroBus mailouts and MetroBus advertising in local newspapers alerted 70 per cent of customers to the new service, compared to 20 per cent through the Transperth Information Service. Almost two-thirds of passengers used the service to get to work.

----

Perths' public transport revolution
Public transport in Western Australia seems set to become a major issue in the next State election with new State Opposition leader Geoff Gallop attacking the recent start up of private bus operators. The Opposition claims privatisation is causing immense concern and that excessive emphasis is being placed on road transport.

But Transport Minister Eric Charlton has unveiled a long-term plan for public transport that he believes addresses these perceived concerns and much more . . .Frequency, reliability and speed of service paramount

Transport Minister Eric Charlton has unveiled a 10-year plan for public transport development in the Perth metropolitan area which described it as a revolution for travellers, taxpayers and air quality. The State Government was facing up squarely to the reality that if a much higher proportion of people were to be persuaded to change their travelling habits - especially in peak hours - public transport had to offer convenience comparable to the private car, he said

"We are going to provide frequency, reliability and speed of service in public transport," the Minister said. "But we have recognised that there has to be more. We also have to offer comfort, cleanliness, security and routes that get people efficiently where they need to go whatever the day of the week or time of the day.

World Class
"It adds up to world-class service - and that is what the Government has committed itself to." Mr Charlton said the deterioration in air quality in the metropolitan area had added urgency to a planning process that had started as soon as the Government took office in 1993.

"Public transport is a key element of the Government's metropolitan strategy covering all forms of transport, including private and commercial vehicles cyclists and pedestrians," he said. "Perth has become a big city. The population is now 1.3 million and because of Western Australia's economic success, is continuing to grow relatively fast.

"While Perth remains one of the best places in the world to live - and the Government is determined to keep it that way- it is beginning to be affected by big-city problems. Among these are traffic congestion and smog. "Traffic congestion is the major cause of smog. Whatever we can do to improve traffic flows will be important in preserving air quality, and persuading people to switch to public transport is a vital element of our broad-fronted environmental approach."

"In combination with better roads - such a the northern bypass - to keep traffic moving in what are now bottlenecks and thus reduce the concentration of exhaust emissions, a mass transfer of commuters to public transport will provide major environmental benefits."


The minister said the 10-year Better Public Transport Plan included major extensions to the public transport train network but because of the cost and time involved in expanding railways, buses would have to carry most of the extra load in the short and medium terms.

"It is in the bus services that exciting benefits are on the way," he said. "Over the past three years the government has halted the decline in bus services and we are now starting to surge forward in service quality. Earlier this week, I was able to announce a 21 per cent increase in peak-hour bus services on one of our most important routes - from the pioneering Murdoch bus station to the central city."

"It is important to note that this was possible barely a fortnight after the route was taken over by a private contract operator selected as a result of competitive tenders. It is a sign of things to come as modern methods and open minds free-up resources to do much more than they have been able to while transport policy has remained shackled to the past."

Mr Charlton outline some of the key improvements in the Better Public Transport Plan:

A totally new concept in bus services. Code named System 21, this will involve major innovations to give buses priority and ensure frequent, fast and comfortable services. Its impact on public transport will be comparable with that achieved by the electrification and extension of the suburban railways.
Introduction of the Circle Route - a bus route from Fremantle connecting to the interchanges at Stirling, Morley, Midland, Bassendean and Carlisle, then on to Canning Vale and back to Fremantle. The Circle Route will service five university campuses, several hospitals, key suburban shopping centres and Perth domestic airport.
Replacement of the existing passenger buses- average age currently 12 - with state-of-the-art buses able to meet international best-practice emission standards. Work on the selection of the new buses is already under way.
Major expansions of the passenger rail system, providing for a railway from Perth via Kenwick to Jandakot and ultimately on to Kwinana, Rockingham and Mandurah.
Extension of the northern suburbs railway from Currambine to Two Rocks.
Extension of the Midland line to Bellevue and possibly on to Ellenbrook.
Extension of the Kwinana Freeway buslane from just north of Mt Henry Bridge to the Murdoch Park and Ride Station at South Street.
A dedicated rapid transit route from Rockingham to Fremantle, initially using buses but capable of adoption to other forms of transport such as light rail.
Elimination of the Lord Street level crossing in East Perth by construction of a road bridge and partial sinking of the railway. This will remove a major road and rail bottleneck.
The minister said that System 21 and the Circle Route were breakthrough concepts in service quality - with the added benefit that they could be stated quickly. "System 21 is a public transport revolution in its own right," he said.

Reliability
"It is designed around high frequency and reliability - peak-hour frequencies of 10 minutes or less than 15 minutes at other times of the day."

Other benefits would be:

More direct routing, with fewer stops in peak hours.
Bus priority measures.
Improved connections with rail services.
Easy-access, advanced buses - comparable in quality to those now in use on the free Central Area Transit (CAT) system.
Quality passenger shelters and vastly improved information systems.
Local area customer service to bring the system closer to the people it serves.
Improved Friday night and weekend services.
Mr Charlton said the Circle Route would be a new dimension in public transport. "All public transport services currently go to and from either central Perth of Fremantle," he said. "This means, for example, that a person living in Morley or Stirling who needs to visit a relative in the QEII Medical Centre has to catch either a bus or train to Perth, then find a bus to take them on the QEII. With the Circle Route, they will be able to do the journey on one bus and not go through the central city at all."

"The improvements in convenience from System 21 and the Circle Route will be enormous - especially so when increases in service frequency and expansion of bus routes are added into the equation. By hard work and refusing to be deflected form doing the right thing despite political threats flowing form criticism by ignorant or ill-intentioned people, the Government has now corrected the mistakes of the past and built a strong foundation for the future. The years ahead will be the best in the history of public transport in Perth."

----

The NightRider service introduced by MetroBus in November 1994 has undergone some changes. The service operates independently of the other Transperth services and provides a late night service on Friday and Saturday nights between Perth and Mirrabooka, Fremantle, Joondalup, Midland and Armadale.

After losing all five contract zones awarded this year, MetroBus was unable to profitably operate all the existing NightRider services without financial support. Faced with the possible extinction of NightRider, the Department of Transport assumed responsibility for the service and called for expressions of interest in operating the services.

The five routes were awarded to MetroBus (2 routes - 979 Perth to Armadale and 959 Perth to Midland) and Path Transit (the 3 remaining routes).

The sole bus in NightRider promotional livery, Mercedes number 1047, is operated by MetroBus. To allow it to continue to operate on NightRider services, it has been transferred from Palmyra depot to Redcliffe, from where it will operate the 959 service between Midland and Perth.

NightRider services
939 - WSBS to Mirrabooka then to WSBS (circular route)
949 - WSBS to and from Joondalup
959 - WSBS to and from Midland
969 - WSBS to and from Fremantle
979 - WSBS to Armadale Station


Several MetroBus routes and schedules have been altered by Transperth. The changes are:

Timetable S3/F16
Timetable S3 has been discontinued. With one exception, all routes shown in this timetable are now in timetable F16. These are Routes 33, 180, 181, 182 and 344. The exception is Route 538 which has been transferred to Timetable F15.

Route 33 (MetroBus)
Effective Sunday September 29, Route 33 is shown on Timetable F16. Previously it was on Timetable S3, which has now been discontinued. The Busport stand for route 33 to Kings Park has been changed to Stand 4, Platform E.

Route 82 (MetroBus)
Effective Sunday September 29, Route 82 is displayed on Timetable F4, which also contains Routes 100 and 101. Copies of Timetable J2 are still distributed listing Route 82.

Route 109 (MetroBus)
From Sunday November 24 route alterations will apply to Route 109. Passengers should be advised to obtain a new copy of Timetable E5.

To Bentley
Normal route to the intersection of South Terrace and Murray Street, then via Murray Street, Ryrle Avenue, Throssell Street, Thelma Street, Morrisson Street, Saunders Street, Bruce Street, Henley Street, Abjornson Street, Gillon, Walanna Avenue, Jackson Road, Kent Street, Hayman Road to existing terminus.

From Bentley
Reverse of the above

Please note:
Route 109 will no longer travel along South Terrace between Douglas Avenue and Murray Street and along Hayman Road between Douglas Avenue and Kent Street.

Routes 180, 181, 182 (MetroBus)
Effective Sunday September 29, Routes 180, 181 and 182 are shown on Timetable F16. Previously they were on Timetable S3, which has now been discontinued.

Route 182 (MetroBus)
Effective Sunday September 29, Route 182 is displayed on Timetable F16. Copies of Timetable A2 are still distributed listing Route 182.

Route 344 (MetroBus)
Effective Sunday September 29, Route 344 is displayed on Timetable F16. Copies of Timetable E4 are still distributed listing Routes 344.

Routes 468, 480, 482, 485 (MetroBus)
Commencing Sunday November 3, these services have been changed to improve after hours weekday services and increase weekend services for customers travelling north of Joondalup.

Route 468
Will now travel along Candlewood Boulevarde instead of Blue Mountain Drive. From Joondalup Station bus travels via Moore Drive and then resumes former route.

Route 480
Route 480 will be withdrawn. It will be replaced with routes 482 and 485.

Routes 482
Will no longer travel via Edinburgh Avenue and instead will travel continuously along Kinross Drive to Marmion Avenue. From Joondalup station the bus travels the normal route to Connolly Drive, then to Kinross Drive, Marmion Avenue and resumes normal route.

Route 485
Will deviate to Burns Beach Saturday (daytime), Sunday and Public Holidays. The changed route is from Joondalup Station via normal route to Burns Beach Road to Ocean Parade (extends to Burns Beach terminus) then to Marmion Avenue and resumes normal route.

Withdrawals
Route 480 (MetroBus)
Route 480 has been withdrawn from Sunday November 3. See above for full details.

---

MetroBus's Service Development Unit has been working on a wide range of projects since it started last December. Representatives of the SDU have met several times with the Department of Transport to outline the unit's purpose and to discuss the goals and objectives of the Transperth planning branch with regard to MetroBus' competitive and non-competitive contract areas.

The department supports the concept of the SDU and Transperth planners have provided an outline of certain components of their 10-year plan which will have a direct impact on MetroBus. They include:

The new routes that will make up System 21.
The new Circle Route service.
Plans for additional weekend services.
Proposed additional weekend night services.
The information provided by Transperth planners is critical because it allows the SDU to draw a comparison between Transport's priorities for Transperth services and those of MetroBus. MetroBus provides Transperth services to the Department of Transport and is paid on a 'per in-service kilometre' basis.
The changes MetroBus makes to the route network have to be approved by Transport and must be cost-neutral wherever possible. Part of the SDU role is to identify where savings can be made so that new services can be introduced. Feedback from staff will be sought. This involves examining all the services MetroBus currently provides, determining customer demand, and with assistance from staff re-engineering services to better satisfy needs and wants.

Many of Perth's bus routes have not been re-assessed since they were introduced, in some cases since the 1950s and 60s. Some MetroBus routes even cover the same routes and display the same route numbers of the trams of the 1930s and 40s. Public transport in many parts of the world tries to cover three or four individual market segments with the same product, and Perth is no exception.

The SDU and the planners at Transperth are working together to change that with new, more direct bus routes in the peak periods for the commuter market, backed up by suburban shuttle and feeder buses in the inter-peak and evenings. New routes and additional services for the weekend market are also planned.

Current projects
Integrating Transport's System 21 and Circle Route into MetroBus' "Network '97".
Rationalisation of under-utilised peak period services.
Design and implementation of direct, limited stop peak-period commuter services.
Identification and rationalisation of under-patronised school services.
Identification of school services that can be replaced with deviations to or re-scheduling of Transperth services.
An accurate methodology for measuring standard running times.
The introduction of a separate set of rosters for school vacations so that more drivers can take leave during school holidays.
Examining the alternatives to using traditional buses for after hours feeder services on week nights.
Providing additional weekend services.
Through-routing services through Perth in the peak periods to free up resources.
Review of core running times for Sunday services.

----
Are you being served? Service aspects of public transport in Melbourne http://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com & MelbOnTransit on Twitter.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

I never knew we had a Public Transport Users Association, either!
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

Thanks for the heads up subtekjr! Some may or may not know that by adding an asterix to the end of the URL in Web Archive (e.g. ...transperth.wa.gov.au/*) results in Wayback Machine showing an index to all URLS captured under that domain. Thus, by ending the metrobus archive link with an asterix, we get an index to all pages under the metrobus website. The maps are all stored in gif format under :80/mapXX.gif for those who want indexed access, and there's also various other images and webpages under that.

I do indeed find it disappointing that the other operators didn't have some sort of maps, as the routes in my area were under the Wanneroo (now Joondalup/Marmion) contract, which by 1997, were already ATE/Path-held contracts. However, the Path website held spec sheets to the buses in the fleet at the time, being O305s (both STüLB and VöV-I), third batch (VöV-II) O305Gs, O405s, NHs, SG292Hs, PR100.2s and PR180.2s. I will post these in the General Discussion thread soon.
I'd post any important, bus-related links I had, but they're outdated anyways.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

Thanks, Bus Suggestions for that helpful hint (which I was desperately trying to remember the other night to no avail!).
Included are some treasures from the Fremantle area that I obtained thanks to your suggestion:
Fremantle 8 Timetable (2000).
Map for the Fremantle 8 timetable, from approx. 1997
Map for the Fremantle 8 timetable, from approx. 1997

What a complicated, tangled mess things were back then. Thankfully, the network was great simplified around 2001 (141, 153, 740, 741) - presumably as a result of the 940's introduction. The 141 was later renumbered 144 and moved onto the Western 37 timetable, and of course, its successor, the 513, survives today.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by subtekjr »

Bus Suggestions wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:11 pm Thanks for the heads up subtekjr! Some may or may not know that by adding an asterix to the end of the URL in Web Archive (e.g. ...transperth.wa.gov.au/*) results in Wayback Machine showing an index to all URLS captured under that domain. Thus, by ending the metrobus archive link with an asterix, we get an index to all pages under the metrobus website. The maps are all stored in gif format under :80/mapXX.gif for those who want indexed access, and there's also various other images and webpages under that.

I do indeed find it disappointing that the other operators didn't have some sort of maps, as the routes in my area were under the Wanneroo (now Joondalup/Marmion) contract, which by 1997, were already ATE/Path-held contracts. However, the Path website held spec sheets to the buses in the fleet at the time, being O305s (both STüLB and VöV-I), third batch (VöV-II) O305Gs, O405s, NHs, SG292Hs, PR100.2s and PR180.2s. I will post these in the General Discussion thread soon.
Ahhh! I did include the asterisk in my link, but I'm not used to this forum's text system so it's not included it as part of the link, didn't realise it would work with a [url] tag!
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Merc1107 wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:42 pm The Wayback Machine's copy of timetables and maps is hit and miss; it can take a lot of fiddling around to get what you're looking for (it can help to know the filename & date of the timetable when messing around).

A quick search earlier in the thread suggests Route 29 existed briefly as a variation on the 28 after Swan assumed control of the Claremont/Belmont contract in the early 2000s. That would tend to suggest one of the two timetables:
  • Western 33. My oldest digital copy is dated 9/11/03 and doesn't have the 29, and further searching on the Internet Archive going back into mid-2002 doesn't suggest it existed then, either: LINK
  • Fremantle 3. As far as I can tell, it seems only the first page of the 'Fremantle' series timetables are available, and the only example surviving on the Internet Archive is from 2000, prior to the renumbering of 82 to 28: LINK
I also had a look through the archived Metrobus website that you kindly linked, and was interested to see the information about the active fleet at the time, particularly the M.A.N. artics being referred to as 'SG280H', there being just two CNG Renaults and two LPG Mercs reported at the time.
Further to this was the interesting addition of the copies of Metrobus Newspaper, 'MetroMail'.
This might help shed some light on the Mt Lawley route 29:
Deletion of route 29 (30 May 2004)

Effective 30 May 2004, route 29 will be deleted due to insufficient patronage.

The service was introduced on a trial basis on 9 November 2003.

The route has been under- utilised during its 6 month trial period and consequently, Transperth intends to withdraw the two weekday trips departing East Perth at 8.05am and 8.35am.

For further information, call the Transperth InfoLine on 13 62 13. People with hearing disabilities please call TTY 9428 1999.
http://web.archive.org/web/200406120542 ... ?tabid=375

9 November 2003 was also when the 28 was withdrawn from Mount Lawley so it looks like the 29 might have been a last-chance trial route serving the withdrawn section of the 28?
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Merc1107 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:40 pm Thanks, Bus Suggestions for that helpful hint (which I was desperately trying to remember the other night to no avail!).
Included are some treasures from the Fremantle area that I obtained thanks to your suggestion:
Fremantle 8 Timetable (2000).


What a complicated, tangled mess things were back then. Thankfully, the network was great simplified around 2001 (141, 153, 740, 741) - presumably as a result of the 940's introduction. The 141 was later renumbered 144 and moved onto the Western 37 timetable, and of course, its successor, the 513, survives today.
To clarify the 144 was originally a renumbering of the previous route 149 (with evening and Sunday trips replacing the 162 combined route) and ran alongside the 141 for a while. Then in 2006 the 141 was withdrawn with the 144 rerouted to cover the eastern half and the 138 (which was replaced by the 522 and 532 when the Mandurah train opened) was rerouted to cover the western half.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

Thank-you for the clarification & correction. Good to plug these sorts of gaps in my knowledge of the area - I didn't even know there had been a 149! :D
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

Interesting note on the 29, if anybody has the time to head up there: on Hospital Ave approaching the Aberdare Rd roundabout, IIRC there's a typical yellow bus direction sign for BUS (24, 25, 97 and 998) turning left, 950 u-turn, 26, 96, 103, and would you believe it, a route 29 turning right.
I'd post any important, bus-related links I had, but they're outdated anyways.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by subtekjr »

Hmm, is there any network maps that exist between November 2003 and May 2004 I wonder? Likely none that are readily available =\

Just had a look Bus Suggestions, only route even listed on the roundabout as of 2019 on Street View is the 96, and even the 2014 view doesn't have a 29 listed. Possibly a misprint recently?
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Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by shinjiman »

If I remembered correctly the route 29 was exist before, and it’s running between the Busport and East Perth via Plain Street. It was withdrawn due to poor patronage and in favour of the Yellow CAT route, if I remembered correctly.

Not quite sure if the state library still keep an copy of the timetable for that.
Last edited by shinjiman on Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by busdriver12 »

Merc1107 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:30 pm Thank-you for the clarification & correction. Good to plug these sorts of gaps in my knowledge of the area - I didn't even know there had been a 149! :D
I recall driving the 149 route when I used to work for MetroBus at Palmyra in 1997/98. It had a terminus in Doherty Rd Coolbellup and travelled via Coolbellup, Hamilton Hill, Beaconsfield, and South Fremantle into Fremantle station.

I dug out my old MetroBus Operator handbook and had a look at the map section. There are some (what I call) stick figure type maps of the area which were the same ones used on timetables at the time. It was on Timetable F10 and is dated around 1996. If I get a chance, I'll do a scan and post here if OK. The original is on A5 so not sure how it will come up.
Phil

All views expressed are strictly my own and do not represent my employer or anyone else.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

A map exists for Timetable F10: Link. That must've been one of the most direct services to Coolbellup in those days!

This also explains why there appears to be the remnants of an old 'Bus' direction sign on Watkins St., too. Seeing mention of the 162D, that may also explain the sign on Phoenix Rd East as you approach what is now North Lake Road.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Here's the early 144 for comparison (from the Western 37 timetable effective 27 Oct 2002):
144 145.jpg
144 145.jpg (162.32 KiB) Viewed 4932 times
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

That one is a keeper! Thanks for sharing, Traklink.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

On this topic here's an obscure route from the early 2000s - route 235 from Huntingdale to Gosnells. It was deleted by the time the Thornlie line opened, and has just recently been revived (sort of) as part of the new route 233:
235timetable.jpg
235map.jpg
235map.jpg (83.69 KiB) Viewed 4300 times
And here's the route 295 that ran from Kalamunda to Gooseberry Hill from 2003-2009, notably without any return journeys at all:
295.jpg
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Last edited by Traklink on Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Enviro 500 »

I remember the old 170 to Garden City and 171/3/5 to CVDEP. Now replaced by 177/8/9.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by busdriver12 »

Enviro 500 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:47 pm I remember the old 170 to Garden City and 171/3/5 to CVDEP. Now replaced by 177/8/9.
When I started in 1996, the 170 would terminate in Bullcreek Rd/Webb St in Rossmoyne and extend to Garden City on select trips.

Also, the
171-178 would terminate at Market City Canning Vale (behind the Market City Tavern) and the 179 had a terminus in Burnett Ave Leeming (next to Leeming Primary School) which it shared with the 884 (the first route I drove in service FWIW).
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

subtekjr wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:40 pm Metrobus' website had a signifcant amount of route maps and timetables that I've dug up that cover basically just 1997, but they are quite extensive given how much of the network they covered. It features many routes that I wasn't able to find through TP's website (because it doesn't seem possible to see any timetables that old on TP's site).

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... wa.gov.au/*

Look through Page 2 onwards, it gives a list of all the routes they listed on their site, with options for both the timetables and route maps. They seem to be the only provider that had their own routes listed on their site, as I can't find the same info for Southern Coast Transit or Path (which sucks, those two cover many missing routes that I'd like to find). Been really useful myself and you guys might enjoy looking through!
Something I'm curious about from this is the mention of routes 261 and 267 (both Path Transit) on this page: http://web.archive.org/web/199702220224 ... uide2b.htm

I know that in the 2000s, route 267 was the western half (Scarborough-Karrinyup) of what it now the 422, and I recall seeing that this ran as the route 261 back in the MTT days while the 267 ran from Perth to Woodlands and Wembley Downs (replaced by the 412), but I'm wondering where these two routes ran in those early days of the Joondalup train line?
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by actually »

Traklink wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:59 am
subtekjr wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:40 pm Metrobus' website had a signifcant amount of route maps and timetables that I've dug up that cover basically just 1997, but they are quite extensive given how much of the network they covered. It features many routes that I wasn't able to find through TP's website (because it doesn't seem possible to see any timetables that old on TP's site).

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... wa.gov.au/*

Look through Page 2 onwards, it gives a list of all the routes they listed on their site, with options for both the timetables and route maps. They seem to be the only provider that had their own routes listed on their site, as I can't find the same info for Southern Coast Transit or Path (which sucks, those two cover many missing routes that I'd like to find). Been really useful myself and you guys might enjoy looking through!
Something I'm curious about from this is the mention of routes 261 and 267 (both Path Transit) on this page: http://web.archive.org/web/199702220224 ... uide2b.htm

I know that in the 2000s, route 267 was the western half (Scarborough-Karrinyup) of what it now the 422, and I recall seeing that this ran as the route 261 back in the MTT days while the 267 ran from Perth to Woodlands and Wembley Downs (replaced by the 412), but I'm wondering where these two routes ran in those early days of the Joondalup train line?
The 261 and 267 were little farty trips that ran from Karrinyup shops to Scarborough beach and vice versa. Only a few trips per day that took less than 10 minutes to do...if my memory serves me well
Doing nothing suspicious at PATH Transit



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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by busdriver12 »

actually wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:06 am The 261 and 267 were little farty trips that ran from Karrinyup shops to Scarborough beach and vice versa. Only a few trips per day that took less than 10 minutes to do...if my memory serves me well
I did a little detective work and the earliest record I have of the 261/267 is March 1995 - I've scanned a map from my old drivers manual (see below). When I worked at Path Karrinyup in the late 90's/early 2000's I ran the odd 267 and recall the 261 being removed during my time there (cannot recall the date). The only difference is that the 261 went straight along Jeanes Rd R onto Karrinyup Rd and into the Karrinyup Bus Station. The 267 went via Prisk St (past the water tower) to service the Chrystal Halliday nursing home. IIRC, the 261 only ran during peak periods and was a M-F service, whereas the 267 ran the most during weekdays and on Saturdays. I've constructed a time line for these routes and how they changed to now:

Route
261: Route deleted (date unknown at this stage)
Route
267: Renumbered to Route 422 (14/8/11)
Route
422: Merged with Route 426 and whole route renumbered to Route 422 (4/5/14)
IMG_20210404_0001sm.jpg
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by In Transit »

Merc1107 wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:07 am I never knew we had a Public Transport Users Association, either!
Indeed we did! Reading through all that is quite a blast from the past - including seeing my old office phone number and colleagues listed. I got quite a surprise to see MetroBus' SDU cop a mention on ATDB! Ancient history now... and my first role with a public transport operator.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by pasha241 »

is there any map of Morley - Beechboro route (pre 2010) era when most of the route still double digit number
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Cheers actually and busdriver12 :)
pasha241 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:55 pm is there any map of Morley - Beechboro route (pre 2010) era when most of the route still double digit number
Here you go:
Morley 2.JPG
58, 59, and 61 to 65 ran Monday to Saturday daytimes (with the 64 also running a limited service on Sundays) while 47, 49 and 50 ran evenings and Sundays.
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