Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Just to add, the 344 replaced routes 51 and 57 when it was introduced in 2003, along with route 368 to Warwick.

51: https://web.archive.org/web/19971126150 ... /mapn7.htm
57: https://web.archive.org/web/19971126143 ... /mapn8.htm
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by WEMBLEY 75 »

Instead of obscure and forgotten services, what about services that are still largely intact to their routes from say 50 years ago, say1972 to today? I can think of several routes:
15 Perth to Glendalough, now extended to Glendalough Station
19 Perth to Yokine, now extended to Dog Swamp Shopping Centre
33 Perth to Karawara, now extended to Curtin University Central Bus Station
41 Perth to Bayswater
42 Perth to Maylands
48 Perth to Morley
55 Perth to Bassendean
60 Perth to Morley
81 Perth to City Beach. Current 81,82, 83 and 84 used to be 81, 84, 91 and 92 after the trolley buses were phased out in 1969. Only 81 qualifies.
111 Perth to Fremantle
148 Fremantle to Attadale, now extended to Canning Bridge/Como
158 Perth to Fremantle via Attadale
240 Kelmscott to Clifton Hills to Kelmscott
311 Midland to Bullsbrook
312 Midland to Baskerville
320 Midland to Mundaring
321 Midland to Glen Forrest
322 Midland to Glen Forrest
328 Midland to Chidlow via Parkerville, now extended to Wooroloo and Wundowie on selected trips

Routes 32 and 34 could have qualified, but if my memory is correct, they had a period of being Routes 102 and 104 (?) Route 103 would have or should be on the list as from its last revision has had it route shortened to Claremont.

I used to follow the Perth bus network with a passion growing up as young lad and testing the old grey matter.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Enviro 500 »

33 was truncated to Curtin, with only selected trips following the original route to Karawara.

Did 160 exist back in the 70s?
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Routes 32 and 34 could have qualified, but if my memory is correct, they had a period of being Routes 102 and 104 (?) Route 103 would have or should be on the list as from its last revision has had it route shortened to Claremont.
32 throughout most of the 90s was extended along Stirling highway to Fremantle as route 102. 34 was merged with what used to be route 309 (which covered parts of today's routes 38 and 39) to form route 109. 104 in those days was an evening/weekend combo of the 102 and 103, following the 102 from Freo to Coode St then east via Themla to follow the then-103 to Salter Point (along what is now the southern section of the 31).

33 I believe in the 70s terminated in Como until Karawara was developed. The 34 was also much shorter than today's route and terminated not far to the east of Canning Hwy.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

Enviro 500 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:41 am Did 160 exist back in the 70s?
Today's 160 is a combination of several routes that existed immediately before the Mandurah line opened:
  • The Fremantle to Hilton section of the old 142 to Booragoon (formerly 105 to East Perth via Leach Hwy, Booragoon and Molyeen/Reynolds Rd)
  • Willagee part of the old 146/147 up to Marmion Street
  • North Lake/Kitchener/Norma/Davy part of the 154/155
  • Molyeen and Reynolds Rd is from the old Booragoon to East Perth 160
The routes around Booragoon, Brentwood, Mt Pleasant and so on have been reformed numerous times since the 1970s as the area, and their surrounds developed.
The introduction of the 940 in the early 2000s was, I think, the catalyst for splitting the 105 into the 142 (originally a Hilton only short working of a 105) and 160, just as one example. What's amazing about this, is for years this small area enjoyed comparatively good service compared to much of the surrounds in Perth, with combined services and nasty core departure times more or less eradicated when the 940 replaced the old 151.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Enviro 500 »

940 was later downgraded and renumbered 115 with route details unchanged.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

WEMBLEY 75 wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:28 pm Instead of obscure and forgotten services, what about services that are still largely intact to their routes from say 50 years ago, say1972 to today? I can think of several routes:
15 Perth to Glendalough, now extended to Glendalough Station
19 Perth to Yokine, now extended to Dog Swamp Shopping Centre
33 Perth to Karawara, now extended to Curtin University Central Bus Station
41 Perth to Bayswater
42 Perth to Maylands
48 Perth to Morley
55 Perth to Bassendean
60 Perth to Morley
81 Perth to City Beach. Current 81,82, 83 and 84 used to be 81, 84, 91 and 92 after the trolley buses were phased out in 1969. Only 81 qualifies.
111 Perth to Fremantle
148 Fremantle to Attadale, now extended to Canning Bridge/Como
158 Perth to Fremantle via Attadale
240 Kelmscott to Clifton Hills to Kelmscott
311 Midland to Bullsbrook
312 Midland to Baskerville
320 Midland to Mundaring
321 Midland to Glen Forrest
322 Midland to Glen Forrest
328 Midland to Chidlow via Parkerville, now extended to Wooroloo and Wundowie on selected trips

Routes 32 and 34 could have qualified, but if my memory is correct, they had a period of being Routes 102 and 104 (?) Route 103 would have or should be on the list as from its last revision has had it route shortened to Claremont.

I used to follow the Perth bus network with a passion growing up as young lad and testing the old grey matter.
From reading the earlier posts in this topic I'd say 67 also qualifies - originally running to Dianella (April Rd) until it was extended to Mirrabooka in the mid-80s.

68 is similar but has seen more substantial changes, diverting from Grand Promenade to Lawrence/Lennard Streets to replace the former route 53 in 1989 when it too was extended to Mirrabooka.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by WEMBLEY 75 »

Thanks Traklink. I agree that Route 67 qualifies.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Wondering if anyone knows exactly when route 182 (Atwell/Aubin Grove to Perth) was introduced? Got it narrowed down I think to between late-2004 and around May 2005 but can't find the actual date.

The route itself is very much one for this thread BTW - a copy of the 183 except it went straight on to the Freeway from Atwell and stopped at Murdoch Park n Ride (which the 183 bypassed at peak times). Timetable was only two trips per day, both heading To Perth only in the morning peak with no return service.

These are taken from the timetable dated 10 Dec 2006 - note the temporary use of Cockburn Central train station as a bus station, replacing Success Park n Ride a year before the Mandurah train started:
182+183 map.jpg
182,183,193 TT.jpg
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Enviro 500 »

Interesting to note that 193 was operated by SCT (now Transdev) Freo while the other 2 were Swan Transit CV depot.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

193 was the peak variant of whatever the Aubin Grove (Wentworth Pde/Savannah Ct) feeder was, which was also a route operated by SCT (not exclusively Freo, as I have seen at least one example of a Rocky shift from that time that did feeders between Freo and Cockburn). Want to say 191 or 196 but can't remember for sure.

Having experienced Success P'n'R in its latter days as just a stop for through-services, I can see why they moved to Cockburn as soon as possible. No layover room, presumably no amenities outside shopping hours, little shelter, frighteningly bad congestion (as bad as, if not worse than at present, and this was 2007-2008!). It's a real shame a more transit-oriented solution to bus access wasn't devised for that shopping centre before it expanded so much in the 2010s.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Enviro 500 »

I believe the block of flats on the southernmost side of Cockburn Gateways car park is where the old Success P and R used to be.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

Enviro 500 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:22 am I believe the block of flats on the southernmost side of Cockburn Gateways car park is where the old Success P and R used to be.
Incorrect. Take a look at Landgate Map Viewer Plus and check satellite image history. Its location corresponded roughly with the large roundabout that links to Wentworth Pde and Beeliar Dr., that is to say, roughly opposite McDonald's.

Most of the area around Gateways was a sandpit or uncleared bush during the 2000s.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Bus Suggestions »

If I recall correctly, apart from being a lackluster interchange, the reason for moving to Cockburn as a temporary bus station prior to the Mandurah Line opening was expiration of lease term on the Success site. I'll have to see if I still have the special edition of the Westlander for the Mandurah Line with the info...
I'd post any important, bus-related links I had, but they're outdated anyways.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

193 ran through (on most trips) to Hammond Park via what used to be route 139 (now 525):
137,139,193 map.jpg
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

Traklink wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:01 pm 193 ran through (on most trips) to Hammond Park via what used to be route 139 (now 525):

137,139,193 map.jpg
Thanks for that ... I was completely mixed up there! :shock:
Bus Suggestions wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:57 am If I recall correctly, apart from being a lackluster interchange, the reason for moving to Cockburn as a temporary bus station prior to the Mandurah Line opening was expiration of lease term on the Success site. I'll have to see if I still have the special edition of the Westlander for the Mandurah Line with the info...
That's really interesting. Can certainly remember the site continuing in use through 2008 immediately after the opening of the Mandurah line (and the frightful delays encountered on services with the Gateways deviation) but not sure when it fell out of use completely.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Enviro 500 »

527 terminated at Gateways in the same way that 202, 203, 229 and 294 terminate at Westfield Carousel. All other routes would deviate via Gateways.
Merc1107 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:44 am 193 was the peak variant of whatever the Aubin Grove (Wentworth Pde/Savannah Ct) feeder was, which was also a route operated by SCT (not exclusively Freo, as I have seen at least one example of a Rocky shift from that time that did feeders between Freo and Cockburn). Want to say 191 or 196 but can't remember for sure.
I think you might be thinking about the 791 here.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

Enviro 500 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:06 pm I think you might be thinking about the 791 here.
Just one of those mistakes you get before the coffee kicks in of a morning :lol: . 191/196 were the Bibra Lake routes (Meller Rd terminus) from before the Success P'n'R opened (subsequently morphing into 194/794), but for some reason I thought the numbers had been recycled.

791 was a combination of the 135 (now 531)*, 136 (now 530) and 510 (now 520). There's still a couple of bus route indicators for that one floating around.

* The 133 became the 533, basically just the "Burger with the Lot" of the 531 - deviating to Emmanuel Catholic College, Yangebup Rd and Phoenix Park Shops. Pretty sure the stop at Emmanuel was deleted in the last two-three years, but before that it was timetabled to take something like 80mins. The 134 appears to simply follow the old convention of numbering short-workings differently.
Inset B - Southern 133 20061210
Inset B - Southern 133 20061210
Screen Shot 2022-06-29 at 21.01.45.png (138.45 KiB) Viewed 2340 times
Inset A - Southern 133 20061210
Inset A - Southern 133 20061210
Screen Shot 2022-06-29 at 21.02.05.jpg (86.41 KiB) Viewed 2340 times
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Just digging a bit deeper regarding the 193 - originally (21 Mar 2004) it took in parts of both 137 and 139, starting in Hammond Park then crossing over via Bartram Rd to Wentworth Pde to follow the 137 to Success (and then run to Perth). Was changed to follow the 139 the whole way (I think) on 8 Aug 2005 alongside some other changes in the area.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

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Merc1107 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:19 pm The 134 appears to simply follow the old convention of numbering short-workings differently.
It originally was actually a genuinely different route to the others - running from Beeliar (The Grange) to Success at a time when the 135 only ran Fremantle-Munster (shared terminus with the then-881, now 114) and was later extended only to the small pocket of Beeliar that lies west of the freight line. Only became a short-working when the 135 was extended all the way to Success.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Merc1107 »

Traklink wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:31 pm Just digging a bit deeper regarding the 193 - originally (21 Mar 2004) it took in parts of both 137 and 139 ...
Was that on Southern 128? The only Pre-SSR one I have on file was effective 14th April 2007.
Traklink wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:48 pmIt originally was actually a genuinely different route to the others - running from Beeliar (The Grange) to Success at a time when the 135 only ran Fremantle-Munster (shared terminus with the then-881, now 114) and was later extended only to the small pocket of Beeliar that lies west of the freight line.
Thanks for the clarification. There's an old "BUS" direction arrow just by the intersection of Edeline St and Rockingham Rd, Spearwood. Would that have been the old 135, or perhaps something even older?
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Enviro 500 »

I've also been thinking about the 215 that existed between the time Thornlie station opened until the opening of the Mandurah line. I know the Perth to Thornlie portion is now 930, but how did it go from there? I believe its terminus was near the Livingston shops.

Also, where did 228 terminate before 2005? Did all Thornlie feeders start from Thornlie Square back then?
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by busdriver12 »

Enviro 500 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:14 pm Also, where did 228 terminate before 2005? Did all Thornlie feeders start from Thornlie Square back then?

I've consulted my old MetroBus drivers manual from 1995 and the 228 ran between Gosnells Stn and the city. It went (from Gosnells) via Wheatley Dorothy L Hicks R Verna L Norman R Ilma L Harold R Eileen R Eudoria L King R Crandon L Fremantle/Spencer L Langford L Nicholson R High R Metcalfe L Nicholson L Albany/Shepparton Hay St L Pier to a terminus in Pier St. It explains a lot of the orphaned bus arrow signs I see in the Gosnells area nowadays. Also, Gosnells station was not in its current location but to the south of Wheatley/Dorothy St intersection where the old station was located. You can still see the bus stand markings on the road.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Enviro 500 »

At which point in time was 228 truncated and rerouted into Maddington? Was it when 883 from Cannington to Perth via Livingston and Murdoch was introduced?
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Post by Traklink »

Enviro 500 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:14 pm I've also been thinking about the 215 that existed between the time Thornlie station opened until the opening of the Mandurah line. I know the Perth to Thornlie portion is now 930, but how did it go from there? I believe its terminus was near the Livingston shops.
Here it is - basically it was an extension to most trips on route 212:
se4 map.JPG
se4 map.JPG (98.82 KiB) Viewed 2056 times
Also, where did 228 terminate before 2005? Did all Thornlie feeders start from Thornlie Square back then?
Was at Maddington I believe - the western half of the current route was served (outside of peak times) by a route 234 which started on Balfour Street, running via route 214 shown above to Spencer Road then R Glyndebourne, L Tullamore, L Connemara, R Culross, R Thornlie, R Spring/Royal, L Albany to follow the typical route either side of Carousel to Cannington Station. Meanwhile peak trips were served by route 722, which followed the same route to Albany Highway but extended all the way to Perth.
Enviro 500 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:46 pm At which point in time was 228 truncated and rerouted into Maddington? Was it when 883 from Cannington to Perth via Livingston and Murdoch was introduced?
Earlier than that - would be around 1998/1999 when the 877 to 880 routes were introduced. The old 228 route described above was an after hours combination of routes 218 (Perth-Cannington-Parkwood) and 233 (Perth-Gosnells), the newer route (Gosnells-Maddington via Westfield Street) took over part of what used to be route 238.
Merc1107 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:00 pm Was that on Southern 128? The only Pre-SSR one I have on file was effective 14th April 2007.
I actually found it on an old (2004) TravelSmart map, with help from some old service change notices.
Thanks for the clarification. There's an old "BUS" direction arrow just by the intersection of Edeline St and Rockingham Rd, Spearwood. Would that have been the old 135, or perhaps something even older?
Can't say for sure on the 135 since the earliest evidence I've seen of it extending beyond the MTT-era terminus on Fox Street is from 2002, and by that time it was following the current 531 route along Gerald St/Spearwood Av - but the left turn from Edeline into Rockingham Road would've been used by the old 137 back when it was a 135-136-138 combined service.
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