Trams or Light rail down Scarb Beach Rd

[Atlantean]

The Mayor of the City of Stirling was on ABC radio during the week and stated that the City of Stirling, PTA and other relevent govt departments were seriously looking at Trams or Light Rail.

Due to the gridlock on Scarborough Beach Road not getting any better and infact being expected to get much worse the Tram or light Rail option was well and truly on the table.

The proposed route would be from Glendalough Interchange down to Sacrborough.

Your thoughts?

[panther998]

MY initial thoughts .. .. (for what they are worth . . .)

The Mayor of the City of Stirling was on ABC radio during the week and stated that the City of Stirling, PTA and other relevant govt departments were seriously looking at Trams or Light Rail.

"were looking" or "ARE looking"?? There is a very significant difference - - - the first implies that those 'looking' have since realised the immensity of the various barriers involved and given up on the notion, while the second suggests that various pollies are intent upon re-election and seeking to pursue any avenue (however unrealistic) which might become popular and thus help to further their ambitions of retaining power. Is anyone able to please clarify EXACTLY what was said during the ABC Radio broadcast ?? Or is the objective of this thread merely to (help) stir up yet another 'light rail debate' that ends up going around in ever inconclusive circles ??? BTW, I am only asking a question or 2, so please, there is no need for anyone to take any offense, as none whatsoever is intended. I only seek to inject some rational thought to what often tends to be an unrealistic debate.

Due to the gridlock on Scarborough Beach Road not getting any better, and in fact being expected to get much worse, the Tram or Light Rail option was well and truly on the table.

As Manuel (of the {eminently apt, here, in several ways} Fawlty Towers TV series) would say = "QUE!?!?!"
GRIDLOCK???? In Perth???? In Scarborough, Western Australia!!?!!?!!?? NO WAY!!!!!!

To me, it seems highly likely that Mayor Boothman has seldom, if ever, ventured beyond Australia, at least not to any major city (which Perth pretends - but somewhat fails - to be, which is why I choose to live here) that actually does experience TRUE gridlock. And for any reader who (inadvertently or deliberately) misconstrues what I am saying - I DO NOT necessarily mean big, car dominated US cities like Los Angeles, which actually has very good public transport, albeit somewhat disparaged by far too many of its citizens and widely ignored as a viable travel option for the reasonably well-off majority as opposed to the "poor". I mean big cities like Bombay and Calcutta in India, some Middle-Eastern cities like Cairo, and old European cities like London and Paris (where narrow streets that were hard pressed to cope with horse and buggy traffic 100 years ago become hopelessly overwhelmed by motor vehicle traffic for hours at a time nowadays).

The proposed route would be from Glendalough Interchange to Scarborough.

Your thoughts?

Glendalough Interchange to Scarborough Beach is around 6.5km, give or take a few hundred metres - about a kilometre longer than the Rockingham City Centre Transit System route. A consultant's report issued in 2001 giving cost estimates for THAT route to be built as Light Rail (as opposed to trolleybus or bus) indicated a total of $36 million would be required (based on then current Melbourne tramway standards, including vehicles). Given the escalation in civil engineering construction costs since 2001, and the slightly longer distance involved, it seems quite reasonable to presume the Glendalough - Scarborough route would require expenditure in the region of $50 million, quite probably more.

So, to "fix" a perceived problem that possibly exists - in the minds of a few impatient motorists, anyway - for perhaps an hour on some weekday mornings and maybe for a brief time on some weekday afternoons, it appears that some of those elected by the community and charged with responsibility for the careful spending of public funds (ie, politicians) would happily waste vast sums of such money on a pretty hopeless solution, purely on the basis of its appeal to the ever-ignorant masses.

When will it ever occur to them that a far cheaper and more expedient option, with much greater chance of long-term success, is to provide a more frequent bus service with the same level of traffic priority as light rail? Even better when the bus route passes through and benefits from a designated "congestion tax" area, as in central London and Singapore. But, PLEASE - keep the much loved, but all too often inappropriate, light rail option for where it can be truly justified and will work for thousands of users over several hours of each and every day! It is FAR too costly an alternative to squander on (usually futile) attempts to remedy some alleged and localised traffic problem that manifests for an hour or two on some days.

[actually]

It does get busy but not all the time. I dont think its worth spending large amounts of $$.

[Ade]

They just need to have a bus lane in each direction with more frequent buses. Anyway, the congestion is more due to the fact that people love taking cars to points A and B, it's not really due to the fact that the road is tight. You need to educate people to take public transport when practical.

[tbc1983]

I would said "points A to A-and-a-half".

Cheers!

[PoweredByCNG]

They just need to have a bus lane in each direction with more frequent buses. Anyway, the congestion is more due to the fact that people love taking cars to points A and B, it's not really due to the fact that the road is tight. You need to educate people to take public transport when practical.

Unfortunately, the general public sees public transport as being "second-class". To them, public transport is for what they call "the aged, the disabled, and the and the poor" (all derogatory terms). It will be very difficult to "re-educate" the people of Perth, or anywhere in Australia for that matter, because most accept that the car is the way to get around - for "normal" people (whatever that means). How many people do you know deliberately choose not to get their license because they would prefer to use PT? Very few I'd expect.

Regards,
Dave

[City Bus Observer]

Maybe some our "back to the future" friends may like this idea seeing that Scarborough Beach Road has certain "rollercoaster" features between Innaloo and the Indian Ocean
http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/ ... y_cablecar this would sure bring that road into prominence as a tourist feature by giving the various crests imaginative names--or have I just awoken from a dream.

Great posting panther998 reality sometimes hurts.

[<smarTTrams>]

Given the number of skate-board-carrying passengers who use Routes 400 and 408 the suggestion below from the "Wired" web page would be an added bonus if cable cars ran to and from Scarborough beach (and it would free up seats for the pregnant, elderly, and doddery):

I used to live in Nob Hill and the exhausting uphill walk home from Powell Street BART took 20 minutes. At the time, only tourists could ride the Cable Car at a price of $5 a ride. I proposed to MUNI that they let commuters that live up the hill use skateboards with leashes that attach to the cable so they can make it home without being drenched in sweat. I mean, why not? The cables are already running so it's not going to cost them anything. MUNI had none of it.

_____________________________________________________________________________________
<smarTTrams> ____________________________________________________________________

[panther998]

Given the number of skate-board-carrying passengers who use Routes 400 and 408 the suggestion below from the "Wired" web page would be an added bonus if cable cars ran to and from Scarborough beach (and it would free up seats for the pregnant, elderly, and doddery):

I used to live in Nob Hill and the exhausting uphill walk home from Powell Street BART took 20 minutes. At the time, only tourists could ride the Cable Car at a price of $5 a ride. I proposed to MUNI that they let commuters that live up the hill use skateboards with leashes that attach to the cable so they can make it home without being drenched in sweat. I mean, why not? The cables are already running so it's not going to cost them anything. MUNI had none of it.

ROFLOL!!!
In some ways, a sensible notion, albeit with a number of impractible aspects. Presumably, San Francisco's MUNI could not figure out how to collect an appropriate fare to help defray the operating and maintenance costs associated with such use of their - almost constantly* running, expensive to buy - cables.

Now, I am trying to visualize a small army of Perth skateboarders who have taken the trouble to equip their skateboards with long poles topped by miniature pantographs (and spring loaded metal contacts to maintain the circuit through the track? Like the 'skates' employed on Perth trolleybuses to negotiate sectors where there was only single-strand - ie, tram - overhead?) - 'surfing' up the inclines along Scarborough Beach Rd in the middle of the tram tracks laid (and electrically powered) by the WA Government. Dare I also visualize the rebirth of WAGT?

NAH!!! Too far into the realms of fantasy - in both cases. But hugely amusing, nonetheless!!

* I understand the cables stop during the 'wee small hours' - approx 01:00 to 05:00 - enabling routine maintenance, etc. Admittedly, I last visited SFO in 1993, so things might have changed .. ..

[<smarTTrams>]

When I was a kid pushbike riders used to hang on to the back of trucks, buses and trams.

Pram hooks on the backs of buses may have helped, I think, and trams had those very convenient black vertical hand rails at the "back" (see below) and riding beside the tram meant there was no danger of getting caught in the tram tracks.


Photo of Tram 66 by Guy Arab

__________________________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________<smarTTrams> ___________________________________

[<smarTTrams>]

Let's get back to reality (or, more accurately, exactly what castles are currently being built in the air by planners, councils, etc). Here is an article from The West Australian website (with key points in heritage red) which gives more details:

Trams plan to ease Stirling bottleneck

30th July 2008, 8:00 WST

Businesses along Scarborough Beach Road may have a strip of their road frontage resumed to make way for tram lines as part of a City of Stirling proposal to ease the traffic gridlock and promote key development nodes.

The council is seriously considering introducing light rail transport, most likely in the shape of trams because they can largely share the road space.

“There is a fair degree of limitation because of the narrowness of the road and that is obviously inhibiting the ability to do a new road widening to perhaps create new carriageways,” Stirling mayor David Boothman said. “The time it takes to get from one end to another (of Scarborough Beach Road) can be fairly protracted.”

Doubleview, which has strip shopping precincts and which becomes particularly congested because of onstreet parking, is one node earmarked for revamping where resumption of land at the front of businesses is likely.

“The council has looked, with the PTA (Public Transport Authority), at what we can do there,” Cr Boothman said. “The lanes of traffic are too narrow. If we are considering light rail, the road needs to be widened.

“So what you have got to basically do is look at how you can make it attractive to businesses and developers along that strip so that they can develop and at the same time release that bit of land that the city needs to make the road wider and make the area more viable.”

As an incentive, developers could be given concessions with any redevelopment, he said — and the same process could be required in Osborne Park near the Herdsman Business Park.

The main access to the Park and Scarborough Beach Road are via the Hutton Street and Cedric Street offramps, which are often congested.

“Main Roads is saying the entire area could be gridlocked within 10 years,” Cr Boothman said. “It is gridlocked at times anyway.”

According to council director of planning and development Ross Povey, if trams are introduced they will need to hook back into the City of Perth to be part of an integrated network of trams.

It has been proposed that trams could run from central Perth through to Subiaco with a spur down Winthrop Avenue to the University of WA.

Councils are keen to tap into the Federal Government’s $20 billion Building Australia infrastructure fund which aims to help pay for traditional rail and light rail systems in capital cities. WA sustainability expert and trains, trams and bus proponent Peter Newman is on the board of Infrastructure Australia, which will advise the Government on which projects should receive funding.

In a bid to avoid further piecemeal development along Scarborough Beach Road — which has already attracted criticism from at least one councillor — the City of Stirling has been drawing up a scoping document for an activity corridor study, which council will consider next month.

The council has been working with the Department of Planning and Infrastructure and the Town of Vincent on the study, which will consider potential development patterns and where new office, shopping, industrial and residential precincts will be best placed.

“Most of it we already generally know about, with places like Scarborough, Osborne Park and around the Stirling City Centre,” Mr Povey said. “But there are obviously large bits in between where, if we are not careful, the development could spread out … if we allow zonings to change incrementally and allow one-off developments without a strategic plan.”

The study is expected to be well advanced by the end of the financial year, after which town planning schemes will need to be amended.

Mr Povey said the council had allocated $150,000 towards the project in 2008-09 and understood the DPI would also contribute.

City of Stirling councillor Paul Collins recently let fly at the lack of a co-ordinated plan for the Herdsman Business Park, which he dubbed a “planning black hole” with no height or plot ratio restrictions. He mooted the initiation of a structure plan to ensure strategic planning over the Park, which is bounded by Scarborough Beach Road, Selby Street, Jon Sanders Drive, Parkland Road and Harborne Street. The motion was passed unanimously by council this month.

Cr Boothman said this week that the Park would see a gradual transition from light industrial to mixed use, including offices and retail.

“They will be uses that you get more in the CBD and West Perth,” he said. “You can’t sit on land that is worth millions of dollars (as office space) for industrial use that is marginal … and that can go out to places like Neerabup.”

The council would also like to see some extra road connections from Scarborough Beach Road through to Jon Sanders Drive, removing the need to traverse the entire block from Harborne Street to Selby Street to access it.

And to encourage the use of train travel, the council is considering giving developers building concessions in return for their financial support of CAT buses* running from the Glendalough and Stirling stations to offices in the Herdsman Business Park.

Cr Boothman said other nodes that were prime for development included Scarborough and Innaloo.

In Scarborough, zoning now allows eight-storey buildings, creating more opportunities for retail and office uses as well as high-density residential dwellings. The former White Sands tavern is expected to be redeveloped as short-stay accommodation.

In Innaloo, Westfield is keen to carry out a $250 million redevelopment of the shopping centre, which will involve connecting the two adjoining shopping precincts but it needs the State Government’s permission to do so.

“I have no doubt that will occur once we have looked at the (Town Planning) scheme and how best to effect that,” Cr Boothman said.

The Town of Vincent, whose boundary starts at Main Street on the northern side of Scarborough Beach Road and at the freeway on the southern side, is also upgrading nodes along Scarborough Beach Road, notably the Mt Hawthorn shopping precinct.

CATHY SAUNDERS

Source: http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx? ... ntID=87975

* Details of the CAT bus service for the Herdsman Business Park are in a lengthy article (with route map) in the Property section of today's West. It has also been included on The West website, but without the route map. See thread The West: Route 407 Bus boost for Herdsman
_________________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________<smarTTrams> _

[Merc1107]

I'm definitely resurrecting an ancient thread here (with news from six months ago), but it seems as though this idea is still on the cards.

If you can guess who they've partnered with before reading the quoted article, you'll win a victory lap around the internet!

The City of Stirling has welcomed the RAC’s decision to add light rail to their Federal Government Priority list.

The City has long been advocating and planning for light rail to connect Glendalough to Scarborough Beach as part of its Stirling City Centre Project (SSCP).

City of Stirling Mayor Mark Irwin said once the construction of the Stephenson Avenue Extension (the first phase of the project) was complete, light rail could be delivered.

“The plan is for a seven kilometre stretch of light rail to run from Glendalough Train Station (heavy rail interchange point), along Scarborough Beach Road, through to Scarborough Beach,” he said.

“Not only will this relieve congestion, it will help connect commuters and public transport from the City through to the City’s premier tourism destination, Scarborough Beach.”

Light rail has the ability to deliver significant benefits above and beyond other modes of transport including improved reliability and comfort, a 25% boost to patronage (over buses) and a 50% reduction in parking requirements.

Mayor Irwin said the City had also been working closely with Professor Peter Newman from Curtin University and a consortium of other local governments to investigate alternative urban rail options.

“The most promising so far has been Chinese autonomous rail transit - otherwise known as Trackless Trams – as it could be delivered for approximately a tenth of the cost of light rail and has already been trialled in China,” he said.

“We’re currently the only local government within this consortium that is planning ready, with a 15% design and all transport modelling already complete,”

“If successful, this first stage would then facilitate future stages through to Curtin University and be a model for the implementation of this cost effective technology elsewhere in Australia.”

Trackless trams are neither a tram nor a bus, but have rubber wheels and run on streets. They also boast a number benefits such as zero emissions, less impact on roads and effectively links to other transport modes.

“The Stirling City Centre Project and delivery of light rail is the City’s number one priority and we will continue to work with all levels of government to make it a reality.”

For more information on the SCCP or Stephenson Avenue extension projects, please visit http://www.yoursay.stirling.wa.gov.au/SCC.

[TP1462]

I can definitely see the potential in light rail not only would it support the growth of the Stirling CBD and the Westfield Stirling redevelopment but would greatly improve transport connectivity not only with Scarborough but the Osborne Park & Herdsman business centres but would allow more for infill & density along the corridor meaning we could reach our targets much quicker ideally the first stage would only really need to run from Glendalough station to Scarborough but with a branch line through to Stirling station along Ellen Stirling Boulevard which could be repurposed as a transit corridor once the Stephenson Ave extension is complete hopefully there is some foresight for grade separation at that interchange the less traffic lights the better meaning less LRVs potentially stuck at traffic lights I can see a number of corridors where light rail could work such as Mirrabooka, Morley, the Knowledge Arc and the Sir Charles Gairdner hospital site. I do know that the state government and the metronet taskforce are looking into a number of potential corridors but not much has been said since so I doubt it’s a huge priority for them. Trackless trams are nothing more than glorified buses and Professor Peter Newman is nothing more than a fraud and has zero credibility in my opinion I just wish councils would stop giving him air time given he originally supported Roe 8 then opposed it when he realised he could capitalise on it politically but that’s another issue for another day. RAC I’ve found has always done a pretty good job at advocating for better infrastructure and transport for WA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guy_Arab]

I can definitely see the potential in light rail not only would it support the growth of the Stirling CBD and the Westfield Stirling redevelopment but would greatly improve transport connectivity not only with Scarborough but the Osborne Park & Herdsman business centres but would allow more for infill & density along the corridor meaning we could reach our targets much quicker ideally the first stage would only really need to run from Glendalough station to Scarborough but with a branch line through to Stirling station along Ellen Stirling Boulevard which could be repurposed as a transit corridor once the Stephenson Ave extension is complete hopefully there is some foresight for grade separation at that interchange the less traffic lights the better meaning less LRVs potentially stuck at traffic lights I can see a number of corridors where light rail could work such as Mirrabooka, Morley, the Knowledge Arc and the Sir Charles Gairdner hospital site. I do know that the state government and the metronet taskforce are looking into a number of potential corridors but not much has been said since so I doubt it’s a huge priority for them. Trackless trams are nothing more than glorified buses and Professor Peter Newman is nothing more than a fraud and has zero credibility in my opinion I just wish councils would stop giving him air time given he originally supported Roe 8 then opposed it when he realised he could capitalise on it politically but that’s another issue for another day. RAC I’ve found has always done a pretty good job at advocating for better infrastructure and transport for WA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree as the last of WAGT Engineers and co founder of PETS I agree trams are the only way for the city to coast
GUY ARAB

[Merc1107]

A bit more on the subject, for those interested:

Trackless trams proposed for Perth to get passengers to Scarborough beach from Glendalough Station
Syan Dougherty
11th March 2020

Perth could soon be home to Australia's first trackless tram, ferrying hundreds of passengers to Scarborough beach.

It would replace buses on the popular route, creating jobs and slashing emissions.

It's not a bus or a train - the trackless tram takes the best elements of both and combines them into an electric, silent, fast moving machine, capable of carrying hundreds of passengers at once.

“Everybody will jump on board when they see it because it's fantastic,” Sustainability expert Peter Newman told 7News.

It's part of a long term project between five councils, but the City of Stirling is ready to start now.

“We're the only local government who's got the planning in place to achieve trackless trams down a corridor,” City of Stirling Mayor Mark Irwin told 7News.

Th plan is to run the trackless tram from Glendalough Station along Scarborough Beach road, past the Innaloo shops, through Doubleview and down to Scarborough beach.

It proposed project gained traction after the Commonwealth called on local governments to fast track transport projects.

So Stirling has asked them to cover the $97 million dollar cost.

Mayor Irwin believes the project will make money because it's permanent and “gets more people to invest along that corridor.”

If the Commonwealth approves the project’s funding, work could start as early as this year.

"The roads have already been seeded ready for widening. We need a business case, that would take about six weeks, then we'd be ready to start,” Mayor Irwin said.

“We welcome their initiative and their approach to the federal government and it's very much what we would like to see in the future,” Planning and Transport Minister Rita Saffioti said.

[Guy_Arab]

A bit more on the subject, for those interested:

Trackless trams proposed for Perth to get passengers to Scarborough beach from Glendalough Station
Syan Dougherty
11th March 2020

Perth could soon be home to Australia's first trackless tram, ferrying hundreds of passengers to Scarborough beach.

It would replace buses on the popular route, creating jobs and slashing emissions.

It's not a bus or a train - the trackless tram takes the best elements of both and combines them into an electric, silent, fast moving machine, capable of carrying hundreds of passengers at once.

“Everybody will jump on board when they see it because it's fantastic,” Sustainability expert Peter Newman told 7News.

It's part of a long term project between five councils, but the City of Stirling is ready to start now.

“We're the only local government who's got the planning in place to achieve trackless trams down a corridor,” City of Stirling Mayor Mark Irwin told 7News.

Th plan is to run the trackless tram from Glendalough Station along Scarborough Beach road, past the Innaloo shops, through Doubleview and down to Scarborough beach.

It proposed project gained traction after the Commonwealth called on local governments to fast track transport projects.

So Stirling has asked them to cover the $97 million dollar cost.

Mayor Irwin believes the project will make money because it's permanent and “gets more people to invest along that corridor.”

If the Commonwealth approves the project’s funding, work could start as early as this year.

"The roads have already been seeded ready for widening. We need a business case, that would take about six weeks, then we'd be ready to start,” Mayor Irwin said.

“We welcome their initiative and their approach to the federal government and it's very much what we would like to see in the future,” Planning and Transport Minister Rita Saffioti said.

[Merc1107]

Trackless tram business case given the green light
30th October 2020

WA’s first trackless tram between Scarborough Beach and Glendalough has been given a federally-funded boost with a $2 million business case set to commence within months.

The initial proposal is set to extend for seven kms from the coast along Scarborough Beach Road to Stirling City Centre, with connections through to the Perth CBD on the existing heavy rail network at Glendalough Station.

Trackless tram technology does not require tracks and operates on existing roadways making them easier and less expensive to incorporate into traditional transport systems.

Minister for Population, Cities and Urban Infrastructure Alan Tudge said the trackless tram technology had the potential to be expanded into public transport systems across the country.

“This is ground breaking technology that has the potential to be rolled out across our cities,” Mr Tudge said.

“Being a fraction of the cost of traditional rail solutions it could enable a massive expansion of public transport, it is very exciting,” Minister Tudge said.

Federal Member for Stirling, Vince Connelly MP, said that making transport more convenient and accessible will increase visitor numbers to Scarborough Foreshore and boost local businesses whilst also providing a new service for residents to reach Glendalough Station on their commute into the CBD.

“The City of Stirling’s number one strategic priority for the last decade has been transforming the Stirling City Centre into Perth’s second CBD, focusing on the extension of Stephenson Avenue as the first stage. In the 2020 Budget, the Morrison Government increased its support for this project from $65 million up to $82.5 million.

“The next phase of this strategic plan is to link the Stirling City Centre, which includes the Herdsman-Glendalough, Innaloo and Osborne Park Precincts with the Scarborough Foreshore Redevelopment using Trackless Tram technology. This will connect to the existing heavy rail at Glendalough Station ultimately linking the Perth CBD to Scarborough Beach.

“Businesses in the Scarborough Foreshore Precinct are not operating at full capacity due to heavy congestion and lack of availability of parking. It is anticipated that improvement of transport options along Scarborough Beach Road will create a ‘development corridor’ effect to attract new businesses, and the business case is an important first step towards this goal,” Mr Connelly said.

Federal Member for Curtin, Celia Hammond MP, said the decision to allocate the funding reflects the needs of the local community along the border of her and Mr Connelly’s electorates.

“Over 15,000 people attend the Scarborough Sunset Markets every Thursday night and struggle with congestion and parking. The electrically-powered and rechargeable trams have the potential to reduce this congestion as well as improve air quality by lowering pollution.

“It is incredibly exciting to see the City of Stirling leading the way on this new technology, which can be powered by renewable energy at recharge stations along the route.

“The initial community consultation showed significant support for the tram initiative, but the business case process will be important in determining the specifics of how trackless tram technology works in the Australian context,” Ms Hammond said.

City of Stirling Mayor, Mark Irwin, said work towards the trackless tram system is partly underway with the route already having been zoned for light rail years ahead of other localities in Western Australia.

“Long-term, comprehensive Local Government planning is already approved, and land holders along the route have already ceded the road reserve land required to widen Scarborough Beach Road and deliver the rapid-transit lanes required for the trackless tram system.

“This has meant we were the first local government in Western Australia ready to receive these Federal funds, and we look forward to proving up this concept in order to take the City forward into a new decade of prosperity,” Mayor Irwin said.

Trackless tram technology could strip hundreds of cars off the road every day along the busy Scarborough Beach Road, reducing congestion along the popular corridor and relieving car parking issues at the $100 million redeveloped Scarborough Foreshore Precinct - all whilst reducing carbon emissions.

The business case will establish:

• the economics of trackless tram as an alternative to light rail in Australia
• the planning requirements associated and estimated timelines, and
• the necessary business growth and other indicators that would establish a successful route.

Media Contact:
Minister Tudge – Michael Bennett 0434 782 923
Vince Connelly – Scott Stirling 0431 392 814

Joint Release with:
Vince Connelly MP - Federal Member for Stirling
Celia Hammond MP - Federal Member for Curtin

[Guy_Arab]

I SUGGEST YOU READ ABOUT THE TROUBLE CHINAS HAS FOUND WITH THE TRACKLESS TRAMS WITH OUR UNDERGROUND WATER PIPES PLUS OUR UNDER GROUP CABLES FOR INTERNET ANY DAMAGE WOULD BE LIKE A EXPLOSION TO THE SYSTEM NOT TO SEE THE ROAD ACCIDENTS THAT THEY HAVE PLEASE JUST LET ME GO ON
GUY ARAB

[tonyp]

Getting anything from China nowadays is deeply unwise politically, even apart from the dubious nature of this technology. I'm appalled that the Feds are putting funding into this. A "trackless tram" is actually an articulated bus. Perth should stick to what it does best: trains and buses.

[Guy_Arab]

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW AS A MEMBER OF TRAMWAY ENGINEERS ASSN WORLD WIDE I GET A LOT OF INFO FROM UK USA AND JAPAN SO I SURE THERE ADVICE IS GOOD I WILL TRY AND GET FURTHER INFO SPECIALLY LAST LOT ABOUT ACCIDENTS WITH THIS TYPE OF TRAM
GUY ARAB

[Merc1107]

An article from Business News was reproduced on SkyscraperCity in this post. It seems a trial of trackless trams will ultimately go ahead sometime this year.

I wonder how that will work - will a short stretch of road be altered to accommodate the vehicle and the technology it requires?

[Enviro 500]

If this is successful, would MAX be back on the agenda?

[TP1462]

If this is successful, would MAX be back on the agenda?

You have a higher chance of the the cows coming home or Putin getting overthrown than MAX ever making a comeback. The McGowan government has “committed” to a study however nothing has come from it since it was announced in 2017 and whilst strides have been made to improve inner city density there remains no firm commitment to an inner city transit system including along the Wanneroo road/Charles street corridor the irony being the then Labor opposition heavily criticised the then outgoing Barnett governments decision to dump max however haven’t even provided a suitable alternative for said corridor such as an underground heavy rail or light rail system they’re also more committed to a train station in Karnup than they are in South Perth


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TP1462]

If this is successful, would MAX be back on the agenda?

Furthermore most of labor’s road/rail transport policies are centred around the suburbs rather than the inner city there’s still projects that were announced by Turnbull in 2017 that are still yet to make their way up the list such as Reid & Erindale and they’ve only just started on stage 2 of Stephenson ave and the Stirling bus bridge upgrade there was an article in the West a couple of weeks back where the minister explained delays and project deferrals due to the ongoing situation such as the global pandemic, chip shortage and global war obviously affecting the price of oil so current metronet projects may possibly be increased to cover for the cost of diesel and fuel unfortunately any light rail or MAX glow up would be way off the radar, main roads WA has a list of current and future road & metronet projects on their website they gradually make their way up the PDF as other projects reach completion and going from closed to open borders there was uncertainty as to what effect Covid would have on the workforce it’s unclear what affect the chip shortage would have with the C series and the delivery schedules


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nachoman]

Trackless Tram arrives in Stirling