Other Body Builders Discussion / Observations

[tonyp]

I
BusTech SA Pty Ltd enters Voluntary Administration: https://publishednotices.asic.gov.au/br ... 7c0d6f1322

This comes after their SA factory was recently observed as vacated, and available for lease.

I am unsure if this affects their operations interstate.

Bustech Queensland too. I think Tasmania wound up with the end of the order down there. It will be a blessing to see Bustech go. That design with stairs at the centre door is just a shocker for a 21st century bus and the electric bus is a similar doozy. They just had no idea about bus design. Keeping my fingers crossed that nobody tries to revive them.

[Merc1107]

QLD Government had orders for 50 as part of their "200 standby buses we don't have any real use for" order, so that'll put a wrench in the works there. Don't know where Canberra's units were being made, and of course, Adelaide would be in a particularly bothersome situation given they had a decade-long contract for buses bodied by Bustech!

The Bustech electrics at Clark's, which I observe (or HEAR) quite regularly, for better or for worse, sound like a recording of a Voith retarder played in reverse. They're phenomenally loud - more so than a Volvo B8 or Scania K series. It was reported on another forum, that Proterra, who made the batteries for those contraptions, went out of business, leaving Clark's with something of an orphan.

[tonyp]

QLD Government had orders for 50 as part of their "200 standby buses we don't have any real use for" order, so that'll put a wrench in the works there. Don't know where Canberra's units were being made, and of course, Adelaide would be in a particularly bothersome situation given they had a decade-long contract for buses bodied by Bustech!

The Bustech electrics at Clark's, which I observe (or HEAR) quite regularly, for better or for worse, sound like a recording of a Voith retarder played in reverse. They're phenomenally loud - more so than a Volvo B8 or Scania K series. It was reported on another forum, that Proterra, who made the batteries for those contraptions, went out of business, leaving Clark's with something of an orphan.

At a time when Custom Denning and Volvo gave us a flat-floored electric bus, Bustech came up with this:

zdi3.jpg (69.5 KiB) Viewed 1300 times

Not only two whopping steps in the aisle, but a almost invisible trip hazard step in the door for extra effect. They were a caricature of a bus manufacturer.

Newcastle also has three of their electrics iirc. That was going to be another big deal. Hopefully Custom Denning and Vovlo take advantage of the big hole in the market that's opened up.

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

Amidst all of the anti-Bustech criticisms it seems that many have forgotten about the CDi which was, and remains, the only Australian-made 12 metre double decker bus allowed to run with a full load on NSW roads.

Although many may not be happy with Bustech and the slanted step at the centre door I still hold that the sloped floor of the VST is superior in terms of crowd management to any other low-entry bus, as commuters onboard VSTs actually bother to move up to the back, allowing more people to get on. (I've been left behind on 610X services way too many times because people just won't move up the stairs!)

Obviously a low floor vehicle would be ideal but considering that many famous chassis like the Volvo B7RLE are not available in low-floor format, Bustech should be praised for trying to find another solution. Leaving a step at the centre door isn't just plain laziness - it's a compromise made to solve another issue and perhaps the people in charge of designing the VST may have believed a step at the centre door was a small price to pay for better passenger flow. People will have to look down when exiting anyway as nothing, except maybe a wheelchair ramp, can eliminate the step between the bus and the kerb.

Perhaps most importantly however is the fact that if BusTech disappear then that's one less Australian bus bodybuilder. Personally I don't have too much against Chinese EVs (unless they happen to be a BYD D9RA with a Volgren Optimus Body...) or against Gemilangs, but less variety in the market means less competition, and the only company I can see profiting from Bustech's demise would be Volgren.

[tonyp]

Perhaps most importantly however is the fact that if BusTech disappear then that's one less Australian bus bodybuilder. Personally I don't have too much against Chinese EVs (unless they happen to be a BYD D9RA with a Volgren Optimus Body...) or against Gemilangs, but less variety in the market means less competition, and the only company I can see profiting from Bustech's demise would be Volgren.

More market space for Custom Denning, which does know how to design a good bus. Other body builders get their opportunity on the Volvo BZL chassis.

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

Yes but few operators look at build or design quality. In the Australian market cost seems to be the main concern, and the Custom Denning Element is among the most expensive BEBs on the market.

[tonyp]

Yes but few operators look at build or design quality. In the Australian market cost seems to be the main concern, and the Custom Denning Element is among the most expensive BEBs on the market.

In NSW, with the government paying for buses and having a minimum Australian manufacture requirement (50% local build), Australian buses have a strong position in the market regardless of the price premium for local manufacture.

I recall that Bustech had the most expensive electric bus at about $1 million. The Element is somewhat less than that I believe. The most expensive are fuel cell buses, wherever they come from, which, last I heard was about $1.2 million - more expensive per passenger than a tram.

[BAMBAM]

Yes but few operators look at build or design quality. In the Australian market cost seems to be the main concern, and the Custom Denning Element is among the most expensive BEBs on the market.

In NSW, with the government paying for buses and having a minimum Australian manufacture requirement (50% local build), Australian buses have a strong position in the market regardless of the price premium for local manufacture.

I recall that Bustech had the most expensive electric bus at about $1 million. The Element is somewhat less than that I believe. The most expensive are fuel cell buses, wherever they come from, which, last I heard was about $1.2 million - more expensive per passenger than a tram.

If either governments really cared about local manufacturing, especially Chris Minms promoting local workforce to build buses, They should follow South Australian and Western Australia Governments and locking in Long term Contracts. At least in NSW there's work to be spread around with Custom Coaches, Express and Nexport having bases to build buses within NSW already. May not get your dreams fulfilled where all buses wont have a rear step but at least it will be all low floor buses.

[Merc1107]

SA has a long-term control with Bustech - although at 34 buses per year, and a drip-feed of orders from elsewhere, perhaps it just wasn't enough to keep the doors open.

[BAMBAM]

SA has a long-term control with Bustech - although at 34 buses per year, and a drip-feed of orders from elsewhere, perhaps it just wasn't enough to keep the doors open.

Didn't they have a similar agreement with Custom Coaches before they went bust and Bustech quicky took their remaining orders to fulfill?

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

I recall that the slow trickle of Scania K320UB Bustech VSTs for ACTION and the K360UAs and whatever Adelaide had on order at the time was being blamed on a chassis shortage at Scania - the reason why Volgren Dandenong was still able to churn out so many Scanias for Dysons and Grenda and the like was because the Victorians ordered Scania K320CBs which may not have been suffering the same problems.
Honestly I don't know why ACT couldn't just modify the order to K320CBs if that was the case.

Going back to other body builders, I did take a ride on an Express Metro LF with Volvo BZL chassis based at Busways Penrith the other day and my oh my it rattled more than a Volgren. I managed to trace the source of the rattling to a panel at the rear and some loose pole joins near the front but I hope that if Busways is indeed going to order more similar vehicles that they fix this issue. The BZLs are also ridiculously bouncy which makes for an interesting comparison to Scania diesels which have very firm suspension.

[Lt. Commander Data]

I recall that the slow trickle of Scania K320UB Bustech VSTs for ACTION and the K360UAs and whatever Adelaide had on order at the time was being blamed on a chassis shortage at Scania - the reason why Volgren Dandenong was still able to churn out so many Scanias for Dysons and Grenda and the like was because the Victorians ordered Scania K320CBs which may not have been suffering the same problems.
Honestly I don't know why ACT couldn't just modify the order to K320CBs if that was the case.

Incorrect as the Adelaide order has also moved on to the NGB Scania model - it’s less about what the client orders and more about how much old stock Scania had left of the UBs. There has also been reports of Scania chassis sitting around waiting to be bodied for years before the body is actually completed - and several sitting unbodied now at Scania Adelaide. This is 100% fully a Bustech problem (and as such, they are in administration and Scania Australia are doing just fine).

[BusFan23]

In the images of BusTech's SA factory (posted by the real estate agents leasing/selling the site—the page says both are an option), there appears to be a pretty significant number of unbodied chassis sitting around, which is some confirmation of a BusTech problem, not a Scania one.

Ultimately, it will be interesting to see what comes of the situation and how Scania will respond, as the contractual responsibility to deliver buses (in SA, at least) resides with them.

[Mitch]

Going back to other body builders, I did take a ride on an Express Metro LF with Volvo BZL chassis based at Busways Penrith the other day and my oh my it rattled more than a Volgren. I managed to trace the source of the rattling to a panel at the rear and some loose pole joins near the front but I hope that if Busways is indeed going to order more similar vehicles that they fix this issue. The BZLs are also ridiculously bouncy which makes for an interesting comparison to Scania diesels which have very firm suspension.

Express has always rattled, but I've never found it worse than the typical Volgren rattle.

Thanks,
Mitch

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

The fact that the Express rattled baffled me, because the window frames of the Express Metro are solid metal, and the ducting is also powder coated steel. Unlike with Volgren, where the rattling is inherent due to the loosely connected plastic ducting, the rattles on the Express could easily be fixed by any old person with whatever screwdriver they use to tighten the rivets.

That being said Volgren have gotten their act together somewhat - I discovered that B8RLEs with Volgren Optimus body don't seem to rattle much at all, even when going along roads riddled with potholes. Unfortunately whatever improvements Volgren made from 2018 don't seem to have made their way into the BYD D9RAs they have bodied which are horrendous - far worse than the Express BZL.

[1whoknows]

One suspects the appalling quality of NSW roads might also be a factor.

[Merc1107]

Maybe, but when even brand-new buses driven on smooth roads creak, squeak and rattle to ridiculous extents, you have to start questioning the materials and work ethic that goes into the finished product. There's some leeway depending on the powertrain - for instance a B7 motor is never going to be much smoother than an unbalanced washing machine in the spin cycle, whereas other powerplants are silky smooth and shouldn't have the least bit of effect on the body. There's also a question here of why the powertrain isn't better dampened from the body.

I've seen evidence of new buses delivered without bushings in the stanchion by the drivers cab (where a cage or cab door is mounted) - which is a well-known rattle point, and even this critical piece not even bolted onto the body. The (aforementioned) flimsy A/C ductwork is another frequent source of rattles. Mounting a fusebox / electrical centre above the driver, rather than in the cab bulkhead, is another questionable design feature that not only creates more aggravating noises, but seriously reduces the airflow available to the driver, while increasing the temperature of what little air is output, in the summer months.

All this makes you wonder where the scrutiny in the manufacturing process is, and why buses are accepted for delivery with these types of issues.

[tonyp]

One suspects the appalling quality of NSW roads might also be a factor.

I haven't noticed the sort of rattling you get here in European buses when driving over cobblestones in old cities.

[Lachlan-Conley-102]

GBV (Global Bus Ventures) has set up operation in QLD at Yatala, at what I believe is a temporary facility while they build/find a permanent one to be at. According to their website their new facility will be 6000 sq meters and be capable of 240+ vehicles per year.

[trackless tram]

Challenger Bus and Coach presented a low floor (step after rear axle, 2 steps total to last row) 12m electric bus at the Bus and Coach Expo.

https://challengerbusandcoach.com.au/el ... low-floor/
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/whwgdHHpHfvn5kxr/

It's a Guangtong.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/hhdKuCpNFRWbri18/