Bus Services for Metro North West

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Merc1107
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Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Merc1107 »

Aurora wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:26 pm I can’t disagree with the proponents here for easier interchange at that stop. Our state loves to not get it right the first time, later having to spend more money to “upgrade”.
What's the state of Metro feeders like these days anyway?

I seem to recall a few particularly pathetic examples early on but can't remember if that was representative or not.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Fleet Lists »

The only Metro (North West) only operates as far as Chatswod and is due to continue to the City in 2024/2025. Hence many people who will then use feeder services to the Metro to get to the City, are still continuing to use bus services direct to the City instead of having to change onto other crowded trains at Chatswood. So the feeder situation as it is at the moment will change when the Metro continues to the City so is probably not realistic at the moment.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:10 pm What's the state of Metro feeders like these days anyway?

I seem to recall a few particularly pathetic examples early on but can't remember if that was representative or not.
It has, however, improved greatly on when the new network first opened. A lot of the feeder timetables I've looked at are quite decent, almost Perth standard. There are still gaps in the coverage however.

I wouldn't credit the remaining direct city buses with too much significance. After all, their capacity is only a few hundred per hour, compared to the metro's present capacity of 18,000 per hour in peaks. The Ponds side of Windsor Rd seems to be more underpinned by On Demand services.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Linto63 »

Between 1700 and 1800 there are 48 departures from Wynyard and 14 departures from North Sydney that traverse the M2, and plenty of those leave full and standing. So assuming all are operated by 12.5m buses, that would be 3,100 seats. But probably half are operated by 14.5m, artics and double decks, so adding standees that would take capacity towards 4,000. A bit more than a few hundred.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Merc1107 »

About a fifth of the Metro's 18k/hr, which is not insignificant.

What's the journey time of those direct services like vs the current state of Metro and how it will operate when the remainder is complete?
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Fleet Lists »

No such plans have been announced at this stage but it is expected that these direct bus services will cease when the extension opens.
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tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:38 pm About a fifth of the Metro's 18k/hr, which is not insignificant.

What's the journey time of those direct services like vs the current state of Metro and how it will operate when the remainder is complete?
That includes routes that don't actually touch on the metro but pass through the metro's outer catchment, those accounting for the majority of that capacity estimate.

At present, from Bella Vista to Wynyard, either alternative (express bus or train + train) takes about 50 minutes, with 10 stops on the bus and 14 stops on the train + train, including 3 minutes interchange time.

When the metro opens through the city, the time from Bella Vista to Martin Place (the nearest stop to Wynyard) will be 41 minutes.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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tonyp wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:52 pm
That includes routes that don't actually touch on the metro but pass through the metro's outer catchment, those accounting for the majority of that capacity estimate.

At present, from Bella Vista to Wynyard, either alternative (express bus or train + train) takes about 50 minutes, with 10 stops on the bus and 14 stops on the train + train, including 3 minutes interchange time.

When the metro opens through the city, the time from Bella Vista to Martin Place (the nearest stop to Wynyard) will be 41 minutes.
But it is expected that most if not all of such bus routes will also change to Metro feeder bus services in due course.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Merc1107 »

tonyp wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:52 pm When the metro opens through the city, the time from Bella Vista to Martin Place (the nearest stop to Wynyard) will be 41 minutes.
So the complete project will be more about a super-frequent trunk route, linking to stations with (hopefully) frequent services than it will be about saving time for CBD-only journeys, correct?
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Linto63 »

Fleet Lists wrote: But it is expected that most if not all of such bus routes will also change to Metro feeder bus services in due course.
But as happened in the eastern suburbs with the light rail, more bus services than was originally planned may end up being retained. Bidders for region 4 were advised of this.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

It's a different situation from the SE where there was public discontent with the plan to interchange with a quite (unnecessarily) slow tram, so the continuation of some services into the edges of Sydney CBD was a political sop to that. The situation in the NW is that there is great public satisfaction with the fast train service and I think there will be less demand to retain the direct buses if it's just as quick to get a feeder bus to the station - i.e. total trip time doesn't exceed that approx 10 minute difference. It should be a carbon copy of the Perth system with fast and frequent trains with frequent feeder buses. No doubt it will all play out in public feedback when the time comes.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Fleet Lists »

I have split this from the Metro West as the discussion was getting totally off subject.
Merc1107 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:29 pm
tonyp wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:52 pm When the metro opens through the city, the time from Bella Vista to Martin Place (the nearest stop to Wynyard) will be 41 minutes.
So the complete project will be more about a super-frequent trunk route, linking to stations with (hopefully) frequent services than it will be about saving time for CBD-only journeys, correct?
I think it will be a mixture of the two.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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Linto63 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:54 pm
Fleet Lists wrote: But it is expected that most if not all of such bus routes will also change to Metro feeder bus services in due course.
But as happened in the eastern suburbs with the light rail, more bus services than was originally planned may end up being retained. Bidders for region 4 were advised of this.
Time will tell but we have a somewhat different situation here compared with the South West Light rail where much shorter distances were involved for split journeys if the bus routes concerned were to have been removed.
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Linto63 »

The information conveyed to the region 4 bidders is that some level of service via the M2 to the CBD will be retained. While the actual specifics are still be nailed down, a basic framework was provided so bidders could factor in for resource planning, both bus and human.
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Ray »

If M2 services are retained, that means no opportunity to clean up the CBD termini. Removing the M2s would mean the ability to have Epping Rd services return to QVB and maybe B1 extended to QVB.

If the general policy is for buses to feed Metro wherever possible - that could apply to any bus service running to the city via North Sydney. So potentially 202, 261, 114 etc. would terminate north of the bridge.
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Glen »

I think many of you are overlooking how many City passengers use M2 buses from south or east of Castle Hill, for whom the extension of the Metro will make little if any difference.
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Linto63 »

In theory passengers could catch a bus north to Castle Hill and pick up the metro from there, but there are other areas, e.g. those served by the bus stops on the M2, for which it would be a much longer trip. The number of services operated will be no doubt be reduced, but not totally eliminated.
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

The metro also helps the areas along the Old Windsor section the north west T way so why would they need 60 buses per hour running from Rouse Hill to the city via the M2
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Transtopic »

I'd like to know how many commuters on the metro from the north-west now travel to Macquarie Park destinations. Prior to the metro, there were only a limited number of bus services travelling direct to Macquarie Park, with the majority travelling direct to the CBD on the M2. I suspect that most destined for Macquarie Park drove, as it's relatively close and with ample parking.
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Bus 400 »

Why couldn't M2 services terminate at Epping, Macquarie Park or even Beecroft?
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Glen »

For a start, the bus ramp off the M2 was demolished years ago and secondly why would we want to degrade the travel time for so many passengers?

The 619 already links Castle Hill to Macquarie but since the Metro opened, only runs in peak hours, reflecting demand.

The City is where people want to go, and as quick as possible.
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Transtopic »

Bus 400 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:51 pm Why couldn't M2 services terminate at Epping, Macquarie Park or even Beecroft?
The problem is that there is no longer direct access from the M2 at Epping from the north west to Epping Station and bus services would have to exit onto Pennant Hills Rd and then travel through Carlingford and along the congested Carlingford Rd to the station to allow interchange to the metro. Similarly at Macquarie Park, there is no direct access to the Macquarie University metro station without a circuitous route. Access would be available on the exit to Lane Cove Rd to Macquarie Park metro station, but would be caught up in peak traffic on Lane Cove Rd. So it's hardly worth it.

Even going to Beecroft would require a round about route exiting at Pennant Hills Rd.
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by gilberations »

A network wide frequency increase following the axing of any CBD routes should happen, there’s no reason that most bus routes should have any fewer than 4BPH if it feeds to a railway station. Want people to use public transport? Make it as convenient as possible
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Re: Bus Services for Metro North West

Post by Glen »

I don't see all the buses in the Hills but when I do see anything running around at night heading west coming off the Metro stations such as Castle Hill or Showground they are usually empty.

All the action is on the direct buses from the City.
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