New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

LIFE JUST GOT HARDER FOR SYDNEY BUS PASSENGERS.......

You can't catch a bus in Sydney unless you establish eye contact with the bus driver. That's because buses don't stop at every stop – only when a passenger signals the driver to do so. Which is why the new bus stop waiting shelters in Park Street, Sydney, are testimony to incompetence, ignorance, and/or stubbornness within Sydney City Council and Transport for NSW.

Opened for public use on ~ 29.7.22, the two shelters on the north side of Park Street, next to Hyde Park, have a large advertising panel, about 2m wide and 3m high, placed between them. The advertising panel seriously obstructs the view of oncoming buses for people seated in the eastern shelter.

It is a fundamental requirement for the functioning of Sydney's bus network that intending passengers be able to easily view the destination sign and route number displayed on the front of an approaching bus. The intending passenger has to read the destination information, decide whether the bus meets her travel needs, then signal to the bus driver, or not, depending on her destination. This all takes time, and long sightlines are thus required between the intending passenger in the shelter, and approaching buses, which may be travelling at ~ 30k.p.h.

Five different routes depart from this stop (No. 2000157) and a further number of routes terminate here, so the information-processing task for the intending passenger is significant.

When asked to remove the offending advertising panel so that intending passengers could clearly see approaching buses, City Council responded with -

“Each bus shelter and advertising panel..... was subject to a development application process.  Transport for NSW ….were consulted as part of this process, with sightlines being a consideration in both the development applications process and Transport forNSW approval process.
 
Whilst we acknowledge the concerns raised in this instance,  these street furniture elements incorporate a number of improvements when compared to the previous generation of shelters and have met the necessary planning requirements.  It is therefore not possible to have them removed.
 
City staff will however contact TfNSW and ask that drivers are made aware of the concerns raised.”

Whether or not the new shelters “incorporate... improvements” is, of course, irrelevant to the subject of the complaint. And the offending advertising panel would be quickly removed if it suited the decision makers.
It seems that, as with the advertising film which covers the windows of many Sydney buses, the demands of the advertising industry far outweigh the needs of bus passengers.
This same intrusion now occurs at a number of other Sydney bus stops, but thanks to site-specific differences, passengers can still observe approaching buses.

QMSshltr3.doc
11.8.22.
6151
Stu
Posts: 4345
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:37 pm

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by Stu »

lunchbox wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:08 pm LIFE JUST GOT HARDER FOR SYDNEY BUS PASSENGERS.......
 
City staff will however contact TfNSW and ask that drivers are made aware of the concerns raised.”
Stepping around issues rather than correcting any issues by palming off the worry and responsibility down the chain.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by boronia »

You have to wonder about the DA process, and referals to TfNSW, when the one of the first of the new shelters was erected at a "bus stop" that hasn't had a service for about 20 years (Dacey Ave Moore Park, outside the athletics field).

Some of my local stops don't have shelters, but the curvature of the roads, and the proliferation of trees and poles on the footpath edge, still make it difficult to see approaching buses.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

In a possible further sign of the Council's or contractor's priorities, the advertising panel attached to the Druitt Street shelters is already brightly illuminated, but the shelters themselves are not....
6568
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

Peter Khan has a letter on the subject in today's Herald.
6752
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by moa999 »

Any examples of where there is an advertising sign at both ends of the shelter.

All the ones I have seen have only been at one end, no different to the prior design.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

The Thursday 11 August 2022 post, above, referred to the poor sightlines of the new shelters on the north side of Park Street, serving east-bound bus services. The newly erected shelters (~1.9.22) opposite, for west-bound services, are even worse. There is only 7m between the downstream seat and the intrusive advertising pylon. A light pole just makes matters worse.
Seated passengers can't see the route number on approaching buses, and bus drivers can't see people sitting in the shelter.
City Council is the body managing the contract for the new shelters. Council's phone number is 9265 9333.
7082
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by boronia »

And the council will tell you that they been OK'd by TfNSW, so there is nothing they can/will do.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

Yes, Boronia - TfNSW is at fault. But who will hold TfNSW to account?
These days, any complaint to the Minister for Transport just seems to generate a public relations bulldust response, created within that same TfNSW, and transmitted through an unquestioning, promotions-ladder-climbing, "Parliamentary Secretary".
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

The worst example yet, of ad panels obstructing the view of oncoming buses from the seat, seems to be Stand H, inbound in York St. at Wynyard St........just 3m between the seat and the cursed ad panel.
7495
User avatar
booma
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:17 pm
Favourite Vehicle: 3886 & 3883
Location: VBVD via Wmall

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by booma »

There also seems to be only 30 cm clearance between Ad frame and kerb at Carrington St Wynyard.

So little clearance that a pax may be pinned between the frame and a bus pulling up.

I think high visibility canary yellow and black stripe paint should be added to the ad frame pylon as a safety measure.
My views expressed in here are my own and do not reflect those of anyone or anything else.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by boronia »

lunchbox wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:38 pm The Thursday 11 August 2022 post, above, referred to the poor sightlines of the new shelters on the north side of Park Street, serving east-bound bus services. The newly erected shelters (~1.9.22) opposite, for west-bound services, are even worse. There is only 7m between the downstream seat and the intrusive advertising pylon. A light pole just makes matters worse.
Seated passengers can't see the route number on approaching buses, and bus drivers can't see people sitting in the shelter.
City Council is the body managing the contract for the new shelters. Council's phone number is 9265 9333.
7082
I wonder how many people use these stops to wait for a bus, that the majority wouldn't fit under the approach side shelters where they can see the approaching buses?
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

Wynyard, Stand "G", is perhaps the worst yet - just 3m between the seat and the advertising pylon. The seats are provided for a reason.....
7657
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

UPDATE.....
The Sydney Morning Herald reports (21/10/22) that Sydney's lord mayor has called for a pause on the installation of the controversial new advertising pylons on the city's streets, including "ripping up the worst of those already in place". it will be interesting to see whether the latter is applied to the sightline-obliterating pylons at numerous bus shelters.
7967
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

If you notice any changes to any of the existing big new (QMS) advertising panels on Sydney City streets, please post details here.
8216
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

16 May 2023 - I've just noticed the new shelters on Eddy Avenue opposite Central Station. No fewer than SIX advertising pylons, spaced between the new shelters.
For the record, complaints regarding advertising panels obstructing sightlines from bus shelters appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald as far back as 2008.
8901
Aurora
Posts: 926
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:54 pm
Favourite Vehicle: C set
Location: Sydney Reg 3

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by Aurora »

It really shows what a furphy it is the Council receiving a larger value contract when the operator that gets it has to just about double the number of advertising screens to make it worthwhile and in the process impede the role of the shelters themselves.
An asset of NSW. All opinions/comments are strictly my own.
M 5885.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

On 18.5.23 an email was sent to Minister for Transport Jo Haylen, complaining of Sydney City's new dysfunctional bus shelters (sightlines obscured by advertising panels), and suggesting that Transport for NSW should be held accountable, given TfNSW was represented on the committee which approved the Development Applications for each of the shelters, and that the TfNSW representative should have been aware of the need for adequate sightlines between bus drivers and intending passengers.
It seems the new Labor government suffers from the same communications pitfalls as the previos Coalition.

A response came dated 29.5.23, not from the Minister's office, but from the Senior Manager, Customer Response, Transport for NSW. It did not specifically identify the enquiry to which it was responding - not even the date. In true TfNSW practice, that task is left to the recipient. In standard TfNSW practice, the response says "do not reply to this email as the site is not attended".
Nor did it refer at all to bus shelters. It DID say that the "matters raised" would be referred to the recently announced bus industry taskforce, and provided a website address -
www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-and-event ... -announced

(The above address is rendered useless because someone / something has edited the content after posting!)

I am tempted to lodge a 2-bob bet with whoever, that the "taskforce" will pass the buck, and find that "bus shelters are a matter for local govenment".
9311
Last edited by lunchbox on Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by boronia »

I've sent a few complaints to TfNSW about street furniture, (seats and garbage bins) being placed on footpaths in locations that block exits from buses. They say that it is the council's responsibility, but don't do anything about it.

Write to councils and they claim the locations comply with (STA era) guidelines, so it must be OK.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
Aurora
Posts: 926
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:54 pm
Favourite Vehicle: C set
Location: Sydney Reg 3

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by Aurora »

lunchbox wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:40 pm It seems the new Labor government suffers from the same communications pitfalls as the previos Coalition.
This should not be surprising, no chance of comms that stick their neck out by telling it how it is, that is how people get into trouble. Also remember it is the same government structure and bureaucrats underneath. They’ve only been in for two months with a copious number of reviews underway.
An asset of NSW. All opinions/comments are strictly my own.
M 5885.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by lunchbox »

City Council has advised (6.6.23) that the ad panels obstructing bus driver-passenger sightlines at the bus shelters at Elizabeth Street, south of Bathurst Street, and Park Street, at Hyde Park (specifically), will be relocated.
9497
User avatar
Frances
Posts: 625
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:08 pm
Location: In a Castle in the Hills

Re: New bus stop shelters for Sydney?

Post by Frances »

Most of the bus stops I have seen have the advertising panel on the departure side only, with a smaller glass panel on the arrival side. Were some other bus stops erected the wrong way around?
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”