Railway Observations for 2022.

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Glen
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Glen »

Does anybody know why this alert is on Transport Info?

Trains make extra stops at St Peters and Erskineville
Last updated: 6:24pm Tue 11 Jan
Incident activity

Ongoing - Feb 3, 1:00pm

Details
Monday 3 January

From 11am until 1pm, trains make extra stops at St Peters and Erskineville.
Linto63
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022

Post by Linto63 »

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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Fleet Lists »

Living in the Shire.
Transtopic
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Transtopic »

Wasn't one of the issues with the TAHE, as owner of the NSW rail assets, about who was responsible for maintenance and hence safety? It was supposed to operate as a profitable State Government Corporation, taking it off the books of the State budget.
matthewg
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by matthewg »

Transtopic wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:54 pm Wasn't one of the issues with the TAHE, as owner of the NSW rail assets, about who was responsible for maintenance and hence safety?
The biggie was the TfNSW thought the operating accreditation and Safety Management System could be just handed off from Railcorp and other government operators to the TAHE. ONRSR had other ideas, told them the accreditation was not transferable and TAHE would have to submit and have approved its OWN accreditation. They realised this so late that if the transfer of responsibility happened when the government wanted, TAHE would be an unaccredited infrastructure owner and be in breach of the rail safety act.
I don't believe there was any actual safety breach that would have hurt people, just the legal chain of responsibility was broken.

How it got to an 11th-hour panic I don't know. TfNSW and Railcorp (and presumably now TAHE) have hordes of legal people on staff and on retainer. How did they all miss this key part of the rail safety act and its interpretation ?
Scott4570
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Scott4570 »

BroadGauge wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:56 pm Speaking of the time that it takes to stable a train and start it up again, I used to occasionally travel on the final Moss Vale service of the evening, arriving at 1:44am, which I presume as the last train in, would be the same set to form the 3:30am departure. Can't be long between the crew that stabled the train signing off, and the crew taking it out for the first run starting!
In respect to the Stabling of Endeavour Sets at Moss Vale, Crews have the following time allowances (in minutes) for the following activities:-

After arrival at Moss Vale, using the example of the 0144 hours:
Empty out the train (2), Shunt to South End Turnback (2), Crew change Ends (6), Shunt to Yard Frame (3),
Unlock and operate Frame, allow train to enter Yard, restore Frame and Lock (5), Shunt to Fuel/Decant position (2),
Decant train (10), Refuel train (25), Shunt to Stabling Yard position (5),
Attach Shore Supply to ensure Lights and Power remain for Cleaners (5), Stable train (10),
Walk back to Station (5), Sign-Off (10).
Sign-Off time: 0314 hours.

Using the example of the 1st departure of the Morning at 0330 hours:
Crew Sign-On: 0211 hours.
Sign-On and read Notices (10), Walk to Yard (5), Prepare 2car set (40),
Shunt from Yard to Frame (7), Unlock and operate Frame, allow train to exit Yard, restore Frame and Lock (5),
Shunt to South End Turnback (3), Crew change Ends (6), Shunt to Departure Platform (2),
Passengers join the train (1), train departs for the 1st service at 0330 hours.

There are 6 x 2car set Rosters for the Southern Highlands Services. They rotate the Endeavour sets through these 6 Rosters to ensure they visit Eveleigh on a regular basis. This means the Stabling position of each set at Moss Vale is important for this rotation.
If there has been disrupted running, or they require a particular set for Maintenance, they may alter the order of Stabling in the Yard.
In the above case, if the last service to come in at 0144 hours is required to form the 1st Service in the morning at 0330 hours, they will advise Crews accordingly. The outgoing Crew will not Stable the set and the incoming Crew will take charge of the set after it arrives at the Stabling point at 0244 hours. Cleaners will be advised of the altered Stabling so they can make arrangements for the set to have some cleaning before departure from the Stabling point at 0306 hours.

Under normal arrangements, Moss Vale Crews will Stable trains and finish their Shifts, and Sets required to be prepared at the commencement of the day will be carried out by Moss Vale Crews starting their Shifts.
Special_K
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Special_K »

Thanks for your insights Scott 4570
Out of interest, what is the time allowance to prepare an 8 car electric set at an outer depot such as Richmond?
Scott4570
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Scott4570 »

Time Allowances (in minutes) for Crew at Richmond:-
Preparation of 8car Waratah (80), Stabling of 8car Waratah (15).
Sign-on allowance (10), Sign-off allowance (10).
Walk time to/from Train in Platform or Siding (5), Running time between Siding and Platform (10).
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gilberations
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by gilberations »

Scott4570 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:56 pm Time Allowances (in minutes) for Crew at Richmond:-
Preparation of 8car Waratah (80), Stabling of 8car Waratah (15).
Sign-on allowance (10), Sign-off allowance (10).
Walk time to/from Train in Platform or Siding (5), Running time between Siding and Platform (10).
Sorry, 1 amendment to your times, it’s 80 mins for a driver and 60 mins for a guard.

Every depot has different walking time to the train depending on where it is stabled. Typically the driver and guard will be given the maximum walk time for that yard in case their train isn’t where it usually is, for example, Blacktown, your train may usually be in the track next to P1, but today it is down in 1D, which is as far as you can go, so they give you that time for walking in case that is where your train is.

At least that’s how it was done when I was a guard. I even recall Auburn crew were given walking time for the sheds even if their train was supposed to be in the sidings.
Special_K
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Special_K »

Hi Scott4570 and gilberations. Thanks heaps for your information.
By the time a Richmond Driver signed on, prepped a train, shunted from the siding to the platform, they would require a crib break by Central.

Do Sydney Trains staff still have the opportunity to maintain road knowlege by working different Sectors?
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Aurora »

Depends on their depot. Certain depots are qualified for certain lines.
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Scott4570
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Scott4570 »

Monday to Friday, Drivers working for Sydney Trains were captive in their own Sectors.
At Weekends, Drivers Diagrams would still have them going into other Sectors.

If you were a Central Driver you could be going all over the Network.
In the early days of Electric Trains coming to Richmond, being a small Depot, these Drivers were limited in where they would go.
Cronulla Drivers used to only be qualified to go to Hornsby via the Shore, and to Liverpool via Granville.

At one stage, there was a plan to have Crews captive in their Sector, 7 days a week. This would assist the Government if they were to sell off the Network in parts.
Special_K
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Special_K »

Thanks Scott4570. I would imagine that extensive weekend trackwork would reduce the oportunities to work other sectors?
Glen
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Glen »

Scott4570 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:41 pm Monday to Friday, Drivers working for Sydney Trains were captive in their own Sectors.
At Weekends, Drivers Diagrams would still have them going into other Sectors.

.....

At one stage, there was a plan to have Crews captive in their Sector, 7 days a week. This would assist the Government if they were to sell off the Network in parts.
I recall one of the reasons / benefits of initially keeping crews captive was to reduce knock-on delays when disruptions occurred.
Scott4570
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Scott4570 »

Special_K wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:19 am Thanks Scott4570. I would imagine that extensive weekend trackwork would reduce the oportunities to work other sectors?
A Track Possession will see a Section of Track closed, this means Train Services will need to be Altered at suitable Terminating points, and in turn a new set of Train Rosters developed.
This will then lead to Altered Diagrams for Crews, which could mean their working keeps them closer to their Depots.
Special_K
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Special_K »

Must be another twist again with Saturday rosters operating on a weekday at present?
Glen
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Glen »

Scott4570 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:42 pm A Track Possession will see a Section of Track closed, this means Train Services will need to be Altered at suitable Terminating points, and in turn a new set of Train Rosters developed.
This will then lead to Altered Diagrams for Crews, which could mean their working keeps them closer to their Depots.
What happens to all of the crews saved when a long section of line is closed, e.g. the whole Illawarra line for 48 hours Saturday - Sunday?
BAMBAM
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by BAMBAM »

Glen wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:05 pm
Scott4570 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:42 pm A Track Possession will see a Section of Track closed, this means Train Services will need to be Altered at suitable Terminating points, and in turn a new set of Train Rosters developed.
This will then lead to Altered Diagrams for Crews, which could mean their working keeps them closer to their Depots.
What happens to all of the crews saved when a long section of line is closed, e.g. the whole Illawarra line for 48 hours Saturday - Sunday?
Training at their respective depots or like Scott4570 said, altered working where potentially a bus, taxi or replacement bus would take them to Central to work where they are qualified or if it’s early morning take the train into city before trackwork or after trackwork be one of the first trains to take back to maintenance centre or siding or yard.
Scott4570
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Scott4570 »

Special_K wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:29 pm Must be another twist again with Saturday rosters operating on a weekday at present?
There should be less Crews required to operate a Saturday Timetable.

Of course, at the present time, this would allow Crews to be off under COVID conditions, hopefully without causing the Service Level to be impacted.
With this current Weekend Timetable, there is the potential to introduce more "Stand By" Shifts, or increased "Report" time, which is otherwise a contingency to ensure Services are covered.

Under the Award, Crews are guaranteed to receive 76 hours Pay each Fortnight, irrespective of the work offered. Crewing Officers will endeavour to Roster Crews for 10 Shifts each Fortnight.
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boronia
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by boronia »

Do train crews work broken shifts, like bus drivers do?
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Scott4570
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Scott4570 »

For Train Crews there is provision in the Award for a Broken Shift, with the two parts to be completed within 12 hours.
Crews will be paid, at minimum, one day's Pay for a Broken Shift.
Booking off period (exclusive of Sign-off time allowance prior to the period, and Sign-on time allowance at conclusion of the period), as follows:-
Daytime (0600 to 2000 hours) not less than 2 hours (Guards not less than 90 minutes at Home Station), and
Night time (2000 to 0600 hours) not less than 4 hours.
For the Book off period, when away from the Home Station, payment is one-half of the time, minimum pay of 1 hour.
The application of a Broken Shift is unknown.

It is usual to work straight Shifts with limits on duration.
Suburban Train Drivers are Rostered to work up to 8 hours 33 minutes inclusive of Crib time (Note: at the conclusion of Actual work, any further wait time, travel time, or walk time, does not form part of the calculation for the limit of a Shift).
Train Drivers, when disrupted running has occurred, a Shift is not not to exceed 11 hours where practical.
Guards may be Rostered to work more than 10 hours, but not more than 11 hours. If disrupted running has occurred, Shift can be up to 12 hours.
Last edited by Scott4570 on Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gilberations
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by gilberations »

I worked as a guard for 5 years and never had there ever been a split shift. I never saw it in the EA. I was always told it was not allowed and it would never be agreed to.

To answer the question of sectorisation, it was done so to prevent knock on delays but ended up not solving that issue, except for sector 1. Sectors 2 and 3 have cross routes that directly impact each other and it prevented short notice crew changes when needed that lead to cancelations.

During trackwork, there is a provision for “off not required” whereby if those days are scheduled and the driver or guard didn’t have enough hours in that fortnight they’d be paid their guarantee base pay. Usually though crew would be rostered for standby, training, or have a trackwork bus or taxi to pick up their train at another location within the altered working. Intercity is the best example of this, where to take the blue mountains as an example, a Sydney crew would bus to Blacktown or Penrith and take their usual train from there.
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Aurora »

Through personal observation, sectorisation definitely helps, although does not solve the issue. Over the years I have found the network gets stuffed more quickly on weekends across the sectors because of this exact reason, whereas on weekdays delays and cancellations are often a result of the number of services now being run which makes it a lot more difficult to manage because there is usually a train around three minutes behind which cascades delays a lot more quickly, particularly with the practice of holding trains at stations where possible, but often delays will stay out of other sectors longer than they otherwise would.
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by Randomness »

https://gov.lb.prod.cds.transport.nsw.g ... 04-512.pdf

"Restricted movements of OSC H set between Mt Victoria and Lithgow for signal testing"
Potential OSCar up the BMT, would be interesting to see. ATP testing I imagine.
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Re: Railway Observations for 2022.

Post by boronia »

Oscars same dimensions as the D sets?
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