New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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Stu
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Stu »

Linto63 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:00 pm Each route may have been allocated to one region, but in practice depots from multiple regions have operated routes, particularly since 2013 when the route optimisation scheme was introduced to try and reduce dead running. In the case of region 6, it wasn't until a few months after the region was taken over by Transit Systems that route 400 was split, both it and State Transit region 9 operating services from Burwood to Bondi Junction for a few months.

In the cases of regions 7 and 8, shared routes were allocated to one region shortly before tenders were called, giving a base specification for tenderers to bid against.

As to how TfNSW compiles its patronage and mileage data by region, it could be done a number of ways. In the case of the aforementioned route 400, it could have been done be including all trips as either region 6 or 9, or allocating to the region that each individual bus was allocated to, or determining it based on the boarding or alighting point.
Route sharing was very common prior to the current contract system that commenced 2005 - 2006.

During the early days of the current contract system, route sharing between depots was reduced. The two main routes that were shared were route 200 and route 400 (ex Metroline) for obvious reasons. Route 200 R7 Willoughby Depot shared with R9 Waverley Depot and route 400 R9 Waverley shared with R6 Kingsgrove Depot. When route 410 was introduced, it was originally allocated to R9 Waverley and sharded R6 Kingsgrove Depot and then vice versa after a few years.

Randwick Depot used to operate a handful of short working 381 trips in the PM peak from Bondi Jct. Kingsgrove Depot used to operate some route 409, 480 & 483 trips which were Burwood routes, the reason was due to Burwood Depot had reached capacity, this included additional bus stabling site in Five Dock. After Leichhardt Depot was redeveloped, this took pressure of Burwood Depot.

Route optimisation in May 2013 saw a return to route sharing and a dramatic increase at that, by November 2015 there were more routes shared compared to routes not shared.

Regarding the route allocation of Region 6 prior to franchising, there were four stages,
Stage 1.
17/11/2017. This occurred when there was a Sydney wide timetable overhaul for bus services.
- Routes 389 & 440 were both truncated to Bondi Jct. and operations transferred over from Region 9 to Region 6.
- R6 Tempe Depot no longer assist R9 Waverley with operating route 352.


Stage 2.
06/05/2018.
The separation of Region 6 from Region 7 - Growth buses and adjusted timetables for both regions.
- No more route sharing such as R7 Ryde Depot operating some R6 route 504 trips and R6 Leichhardt Depot operating some R7 routes 501 & 506 trips.
- R7 Ryde Depot 458 to remain in R7.
- The separation of Region 6 from Region 8 - metrobus M30 services to operate from R6 Tempe Depot, no longer shared with R8 North Sydney Depot.

The separation of Region 6 from Region 9.
- Route M10, previously shared with R9 Port Botany Depot since its inception in 2008. All route M10 trips transferred to operate from R6 Tempe
Depot.
- R6 Tempe Depot no longer assist R9 by operating routes 301, 303 & 309.
- R6 Tempe Depot no longer assist R7 by operating route 343.
- R6 Kingsgorve Depot no longer assist R9 by operating the single PM route X03 trip.

Route M20 transferred out of Region 6. R8 North Sydney Depot to pick up route M20 trips and other trips to be allocated to R7 Willoughby Depot and Ryde Depot.


Stage 3.
Route M20 transferred back to Region 6. All route M10 trips transferred to operate from R6 Tempe Depot on 18/06/2018.


Stage 4.
Routes 400 & 410 were shared between R6 Transit Systems and STA from 01/07/2018 until 30/09/2018 when the route 400 was split to create new route 420 and route 410 was withdrawn. This is also the time when thr route 418 was truncated to Kingsford and the route 357 was reintroduced although in a slightly different trip pattern.

Regions 7, 8 & 9 (2020 - 2021).
18/12/2020 (end of Term 4). Withdrawl of Region 9 UNSW routes 891, 893 & 898. Region 8 will no longer be assisting with any UNSW routes from R9.

20/12/2020 (start of school holidays). Region 8 bus network & service changes.
- R7 Willoughby Depot no longer assist by operating R8 Brookvale Depot routes 136 (renumbered to 166 and truncated to Frenchs Forest), 144 and
North Sydney Depot route 263.
- R8 North Sydney Depot no longer assist by operating R7 Willoughby Depot route 257(renumbered to 114 and truncated to Crows Nest).

24/01/2021. Region 7 bus network & service changes.
- R7 Willoughby Depot route 343 shared with R9 (all depots). Northern leg renumbered to route 115 and Southern leg remains as route 343 and
operates to City as had previously done so before the route was merged with former R7 route 273 on 04/10/2015.
- R7 Willoughby Depot route 340 (ex M40) shared with R9 (all depots). Northern leg renumbered to routes 120 and Eastern leg withdrawn, absorbed
by frequent services on route 333.
- R9 Waverley Depot route 200 was previously shared with R7 Willoughby Depot. Service truncated to Gore Hill and operated wholly by R9.
* Night Ride route N80 & N81 transferred from R4 to R7 and R7 route 458 transferred to R6.

* The above information is relevant to the time the changes were implemented, the applicants in the tender process would have this information well in advance as would be required in the tender process.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Stu »

STA route sharing arrangements as at February 2004 before the contract regions that were implemented in 2006.

I am unsure exactly when these 'Divisions' were formally created, possibly when UTA was renamed/restructured to STA in 1989. There were a number of service reviews in 1990-1991 as a result of the creation of STA. Two in the Eastern Region (1990 and 1991), one in the South Western Region called Busplan and one in the Northern Region called Better Buses 90. There was also a major restructure in 199 at STA to create smaller business units within the large divisions.

In 2005, North Sydney Depot was no longer considered a satellite depot of Willoughby Depot, this was in preparation for Willoughby Depot to separate from the Northern Division to become a part of what is now known as Region 7.


Interesting link.
https://www.australasiantransportresear ... ennedy.pdf


Eastern Division.
Port Botany Depot.
301, 302, 303, 305, 309, 310, 353, 357, 391, 392, 394, 395, 396, 397, 399, L09, L94, X03, X09, X10, X92, X94, X96, X97 & X99.
359 & 393 shared with Randwick Depot.

Randwick Depot.
111 (Sydney Explorer), 222 (Bondi Explorer), 339, 341 342, 343, 345, 348, 371, 372, 373, 374, 376, 377, 890, 892, X39, X43, X73, X74 & X77.
370 shared with Leichhardt Depot.
308 shared with Port Botany Depot.
891 & 895 shared with Mona Vale Depot.

Waverley Depot.
311, 312, 313, 314, 316, 317, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 352, 355, 360, 361, 378, 382, 386, 387, 389, L24, L82, X81 & X84.
200 shared with Willoughby Depot.
380 & 381 shared with Randwick Depot.
400 & 410 shared with Kingsgrove Depot.


South Western Division.
Burwood Depot.
401, 404, 407, 408, 438, 460, 462, 463, 464, 465, 466, L03 & L38.
409, 480 & 483 shared with Kingsgrove Depot.
437 shared with Leichhardt Depot.
461, 502, 504, 525 shared with Ryde Depot.
435 shared with Leichhardt Depot, Brookvale Depot & Ryde Depot.

Kingsgrove Depot.
411, 412, 413, 415, 422, 423, 425, 426, 428, 448, 471, 472, 474 475, 476, 477, 478, 479, 487, 492, 494, 499, L23 & L28.
445 shared with Leichhardt Depot.

Leichhardt Depot.
434, 436, 441, 443, 449, L39, L40 & X31.
431, 432, 433, 440, 442 & 470 shared with Ryde Depot.

Ryde Depot.
259, 286, 287, 295, 458, 500, 501, 505, 506, 507, 508, 510, 512, 513, 515, 518, 520, 521, 523, 524, 534 536, 537, 538, 539, 540, 541 542, 543, 544, 545, 546, 547, 549, 550, X00, X06, X15, X18 & L20.
459 & 525 shared with Burwood Depot.


Northern Division.
Brookvale Depot.
131, 132, 133 135, 136, 139, 141, 142, 145, 146, 149, 152, 158, 159, 168, 169, 171, 172, 173,175,176,179, 180, 183, E50, E65, E66, E69, E71, E72, E73, E75, E76, E77, E78, E79, E83, L60, L78 & L80.
E43 shared with Willoughby Depot.
143 & 144 shared with Willoughby Depot & North Sydney Depot.
151 & 184 shared with Mona Vale Depot & North Sydney Depot.
178 & E68 shared with North Sydney Depot.
190, E84 & L84 shared with Mona Vale Depot.

Mona Vale Depot.
187, 189, 191, 192, 193, E86, E88 & L90.
155, 156, 185, 188, 190, E87, E89, L85, L87 & L88 shared with Brookvale Depot.

North Sydney Depot.
228, 233, 236 & 243.
225, 238 & 263 shared with Willoughby Depot.
227, 229, 244, 248 & 249 shared with Brookvale Depot.
230, 245, 246 & 247 shared with Brookvale Depot & Mona Vale Depot.

Willoughby Depot.
140, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 258, 261, 265, 267, 268, 269, 272, 273, 275, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292 & 293.
201, 250 & 275 shared with North Sydney Depot.
294 & 296 shared with Ryde Depot.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Linto63 »

Route 200 when introduced (also under the Metroline banner) as a full time service in the mid-1990s was operated by both Waverley and Willoughby. Port Botany and Randwick also had an involvement in route 400. Route M10 when it commenced was operated by Leichhardt and Port Botany.

Not 100% sure on this one, but recall that both Brookvale and Port Botany operated route 100 that operated from Dee Why to Mascot Airport in the 1990s.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by pgt »

I've noticed roughly about the last week or so the region 8 STA buses (North Sydney, Brookvale, Mona Vale) have all had their "State Transit" logos (the ones that live at the top of the bus next to the front fleet number) removed, presumably in advance of the changeover which I seem to recall was on the 31st October?

Seemed a bit early to be doing that, or were they trying to avoid the look of what Transit Systems did to the region 6 buses and the stickers (though I suspect the accreditation will end up with a sticker over it, being the only reference to State Transit left on those buses from the looks of it now).
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by J_Busworth »

It seems that the only buses left with the Waratah logo in Region 8 are the B-Line deckers, but those have ‘Transport for NSW’ instead of ‘State Transit’ wording. The rest of the Region 8 fleet has been stripped of the Waratah logos ahead of the October 31 contract transfer.

The last trip for State Transit in Region 8 will be the 23:55 172X ex Wynyard to Warringah Mall.
Last edited by J_Busworth on Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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The timetables from State Transit pre 31st October and those from Keolis Downer Northern Beaches are now both up on Transport Info. Both lots have the region code 28 for the timetables as was being discussed a couple of pages back. An exception is B1 which has region code 36 for non standard timetables which do not show all trips as individual trips in the timetables and other non standard timetables.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by Linto63 »

pgt wrote: I've noticed roughly about the last week or so the region 8 STA buses (North Sydney, Brookvale, Mona Vale) have all had their "State Transit" logos (the ones that live at the top of the bus next to the front fleet number) removed, presumably in advance of the changeover which I seem to recall was on the 31st October?

Seemed a bit early to be doing that, or were they trying to avoid the look of what Transit Systems did to the region 6 buses and the stickers (though I suspect the accreditation will end up with a sticker over it, being the only reference to State Transit left on those buses from the looks of it now).
A week in and no sign of any Keolis Downer signage on the region 8 fleet, maybe they aren't going to bother. Rather than order stickers with varying background colours to blend with the part of the bus they are to affixed, KD have gone for one size fits all black on white accreditation stickers that has some words in bold adding to the tackiness.
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Re: STA Observations 2021

Post by pgt »

Linto63 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:59 pm
pgt wrote: I've noticed roughly about the last week or so the region 8 STA buses (North Sydney, Brookvale, Mona Vale) have all had their "State Transit" logos (the ones that live at the top of the bus next to the front fleet number) removed, presumably in advance of the changeover which I seem to recall was on the 31st October?

Seemed a bit early to be doing that, or were they trying to avoid the look of what Transit Systems did to the region 6 buses and the stickers (though I suspect the accreditation will end up with a sticker over it, being the only reference to State Transit left on those buses from the looks of it now).
A week in and no sign of any Keolis Downer signage on the region 8 fleet, maybe they aren't going to bother. Rather than order stickers with varying background colours to blend with the part of the bus they are to affixed, KD have gone for one size fits all black on white accreditation stickers that has some words in bold adding to the tackiness.
Not to mention they missed removing the "State Transit" logos from the top of one bus (both sides) - 2328 at North Sydney.
Have seen it in service in the last week on Military Road still sporting that logo (although yes it does have the black-and-white accreditation sticker).
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services

Post by Linto63 »

pgt wrote: Not to mention they missed removing the "State Transit" logos from the top of one bus (both sides) - 2328 at North Sydney.
Wouldn't exactly classify it as a hanging offence. :D
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by boeing »

Rehion 9 contract announcement was meant to be today 19th November, but has been inexpicably (to me) delayed. Any ideas why?
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by J_Busworth »

boeing wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:03 am Rehion 9 contract announcement was meant to be today 19th November, but has been inexpicably (to me) delayed. Any ideas why?
There was a preferred bidder and it seems that they were the only ones who proceeded to the final stages of negotiations. I could speculate that perhaps they have pulled out at the last minute or they were not able to come to mutually agreeable terms with TfNSW.

It does seem strange for it to happen though.
Last edited by J_Busworth on Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Linto63 »

Maybe the transport minister has gone to ground over the Sydney trains assets in very poor condition amid maintenance backlog. I could tell you who the operator will be, but some people on this board would arc up.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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Oh yes, break out in hives at speculation.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Merc1107 »

Linto63 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:48 am I could tell you who the operator will be, but some people on this board would arc up.
That will always be the case - there is no perfect operator in Australia, Government or Contracted, nor will there ever be. There is better and worse, with some contractors seemingly incapable of avoiding the mistakes they've already made multiple times over. Judging by your remark, though, I think I can guess what operator you might be hinting about, and if I'm right, the "arcing up" is understandable and maybe even justified.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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People in the transport field are super sensitive about what information gets revealed where and when.
It's not the CIA and The Pentagon.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by rogf24 »

I will say, I recently heard who was going to be the likely winner for Region 9 too and all I can say is that while I think they made good choices for the other STA regions, I am really scratching my head and wondering how the hell they won on this one if confirmed. Though I can also see why they were picked.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by boeing »

So it has been announced now, it's going to...
Transdev John Holland Buses
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Swift »

rogf24 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:16 am I will say, I recently heard who was going to be the likely winner for Region 9 too and all I can say is that while I think they made good choices for the other STA regions, I am really scratching my head and wondering how the hell they won on this one if confirmed. Though I can also see why they were picked.
For the sake of diversifying operators? I can't think of another. Since when had John Holland become involved? Just for this contract to add Aussie ownership?
Will we see Lend Lease put their hands in the bus pie next ?
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by J_Busworth »

Swift wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:08 am
For the sake of diversifying operators? I can't think of another. Since when had John Holland become involved? Just for this contract to add Aussie ownership?
Will we see Lend Lease put their hands in the bus pie next ?
Isn’t John Holland part of the CMET consortium that operates the tram in Canberra?

Interesting choice regardless
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Merc1107 »

If it's a consortium it might just work better than one or the other... Two companies' reputations on the line, and all that.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Linto63 »

Swift wrote: For the sake of diversifying operators? I can't think of another.
No, like all tenders would have been scored the against assessment criteria and came up with the highest score.
J_Busworth wrote: Isn’t John Holland part of the CMET consortium that operates the tram in Canberra?
Yes, and also operates trams in Adelaide in a joint venture with Transit Systems, the Melbourne suburban train network and the Sydney Metro in joint ventures with MTR and UGL.

John Holland may only have come in as a shareholder late in the piece, as ASIC were only notified of a change in shareholding within the last couple of weeks. Wonder how long it will take for the anti-Chinese stuff to come up?
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by stajourneyman »

Do we have an official announcement yet?
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by tonyp »

Linto63 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:06 pm
John Holland may only have come in as a shareholder late in the piece, as ASIC were only notified of a change in shareholding within the last couple of weeks. Wonder how long it will take for the anti-Chinese stuff to come up?
Since you classify that subject as racism rather than the national security issue that it actually is, I don't imagine it'll come up for discussion as i imagine nobody here really wants to waste time playing gutter politics.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

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If it is Transcev, I am not surprised as I believe Transport for NSW was looking for an integrated operator similar to Newcastle.
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Re: New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by Linto63 »

Transdev John Holland JV Sets Pathway To Greener Connections In Sydney's Eastern Suburbs

There was a theory that the region 9 and the CBD and South East Light Rail contracts were to be merged, with John Holland replacing Acciona as the light rail infrastructure manager, although the press release above doesn't indicate that.
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