WS Airport Metro

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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tonyp
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

Their thinking would be that the cross-regional link between Tallawong and Macarthur would be far greater priority considering that the airport and new city is, after all, intended to serve western, NW and SW Sydney. Links from the east don't do much for that, except that the link from Parramatta is important in due course. I think Leppington would be considered third in priority.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

The transport minister isn't happy with the north south metro as he wanted the western metro to go between the city the new airport via Parramatta
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by eddy »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:47 pm The transport minister isn't happy with the north south metro as he wanted the western metro to go between the city the new airport via Parramatta
That would be the sensible thing through a bigger new station with more room for the eventual HSR in auto alley.

Eastern CBD, Olympic park, Parramatta then the WSA.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

tonyp wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:27 am Their thinking would be that the cross-regional link between Tallawong and Macarthur would be far greater priority considering that the airport and new city is, after all, intended to serve western, NW and SW Sydney. Links from the east don't do much for that, except that the link from Parramatta is important in due course. I think Leppington would be considered third in priority.
That may be so, but I view the Tallawong/Macarthur link as a longer term project, as there's nothing there now other than farmland and even with the best will in the world, it will take some time to develop to a critical mass to warrant a rail link. I'm not suggesting it shouldn't happen, but it doesn't warrant whatever priority it's been given. Planning for it can continue.

In the meantime, there's a ready made catchment right on the airport's doorstep - the South West Growth Region - where significant development already has and continues to take place. This includes Liverpool and Campbelltown, which are the major regional centres in the South West. The last time I looked, they are part of the South West region and the broader Western Sydney region. A SWRL extension to the airport from Leppington could be constructed much sooner at a more modest cost, compared with the broader metro lines and certainly before the metro reaches Macarthur.

By any objective analysis, it should have been the first priority, with the metro links (if they must be) following on as the population increases along its corridors. The only thing that's stopping it is the government's anathema towards anything to do with expanding the existing network, even where warranted, which skews sensible planning decision making.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by moa999 »

Or you could convert the SWRL to Metro.

Either by extending the airport line to Glenfield.

Or converting much of the Airport Line to Metro giving you a near direct airport connection (well at least Aerotropolis) unless you went to 6 platforms at the Airport.

Or even if you extended M1 from Bankstown to Liverpool, wouldn't be that expensive to link it to again probably Aerotropolis.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:47 pm The transport minister isn't happy with the north south metro as he wanted the western metro to go between the city the new airport via Parramatta
That will no doubt happen in time, but the problem is that the airport extension couldn't be completed until Metro West is completed, which has now been pushed back into the early 2030's. The intention is to have a rail link completed by the time the airport opens in 2026 and it would probably be a stretch to even complete the airport extension alone from the airport to Parramatta in that time-frame compared with the link to St Marys or SWRL extension from Leppington.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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moa999 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:22 pm Or even if you extended M1 from Bankstown to Liverpool, wouldn't be that expensive to link it to again probably Aerotropolis.
Where is the direct rail link between the Badgerys Creek airport and Kingsford Smith Mascot
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

moa999 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:22 pm Or you could convert the SWRL to Metro.

Either by extending the airport line to Glenfield.

Or converting much of the Airport Line to Metro giving you a near direct airport connection (well at least Aerotropolis) unless you went to 6 platforms at the Airport.

Or even if you extended M1 from Bankstown to Liverpool, wouldn't be that expensive to link it to again probably Aerotropolis.
If they persevere with the metro strategy, in some ways I think it might be better to convert the SWRL to metro as you suggest and terminate it at Glenfield to interchange with Sydney Trains, similar to interchanging at St Marys. Although I'm not a fan of converting existing lines, in this instance it would potentially provide a through route as an extension of the metro link from Parramatta to the Aerotropolis. The need for 6 platforms at the Aerotropolis would be avoided and there would be 2 separate metro lines ultimately being through routed. The conversion would be relatively simple, much like the Epping to Chatswood Rail Link, but probably less disruptive.

However, there is a downside to this as SWRL commuters would have to change trains at Glenfield to reach the CBD. In saying that, I believe this already happens to some degree with those wanting a faster trip to the CBD changing to T8, rather than the circuitous T2 via Granville and the Inner West or T3 via Liverpool and Bankstown. It's still not ideal and it demonstrates the futility of not having a single compatible rail network.

I don't think there's much prospect of converting the Airport Line to metro, or by inference 2 of the East Hills Line tracks, as the quad has to cater for Suburban all stations and express T8 services, long distance Regional trains and probably future through Southern Highlands Intercity trains when electrification is extended on that line.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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Campbelltown busboy wrote: Where is the direct rail link between the Badgerys Creek airport and Kingsford Smith Mascot
Why do you need one?
London and New York work without direct rail links between its airports.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:08 pmWhere is the direct rail link between the Badgerys Creek airport and Kingsford Smith Mascot
There isn't one, nor is it proposed. Overseas evidence suggests that there is limited demand for travel between multiple airports in a city. Under current planning, it would be possible to travel between Badgerys Creek and Sydney Airport, by interchanging from the metro to Sydney Trains at the Aerotropolis, then interchanging again at Glenfield to a T8 Airport Line service.

Even under my preferred scenario of having an Airport Express service on the existing network from Badgerys Creek Airport via the East Hills Line to the CBD, it should travel via Sydenham for a faster journey, rather than the Airport Line.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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The Aerotropolis planning report is available for public comment:

https://shared-drupal-s3fs.s3-ap-southe ... ort_v9.pdf
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

Transtopic wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:15 pm
Campbelltown busboy wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:08 pmWhere is the direct rail link between the Badgerys Creek airport and Kingsford Smith Mascot
There isn't one, nor is it proposed. Overseas evidence suggests that there is limited demand for travel between multiple airports in a city. Under current planning, it would be possible to travel between Badgerys Creek and Sydney Airport, by interchanging from the metro to Sydney Trains at the Aerotropolis, then interchanging again at Glenfield to a T8 Airport Line service.

Even under my preferred scenario of having an Airport Express service on the existing network from Badgerys Creek Airport via the East Hills Line to the CBD, it should travel via Sydenham for a faster journey, rather than the Airport Line.
Demand would be dependent on how the services are proportioned to each airport. If KSA is kept predominately international and WSA is predominantly domestic, there would be greater need for connection than if there was an equal split.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by marcnut1996 »

The official name of WSA is Western Sydney INTERNATIONAL, so I will say a fair share of international flights will use WSA.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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"International" would only indicate there will be a Border Force presence.

It would be up to the airlines to decide where they want to land. Market demand and costs would be factors.
Last edited by boronia on Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by moa999 »

Like Hobart International??

But there is no plan to forcibly shift any flights.

SYD will remain the cities primary airport for decades.

SWZ will start fairly small.
I see a few main services over the first decade
- MEL and BNE services initially (and slowly growing to other destinations) catering to those in the W/NW. Attractive due to lower travel times
- Freight services due to 24hr ops and access to road networks and warehouses
- Back of clock international services that aren't possible with SYD curfew (eg. AKL 2200 SWZ 2345 / SWZ 0045 AKL 0600) and similar overnight flights to Asia.
- LCC flights (if costs are substantially lower than SYD)

Continuing the Airport Metro to the M1 will also make it far more desirable for those in the NW.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Linto63 »

marcnut1996 wrote: The official name of WSA is Western Sydney INTERNATIONAL, so I will say a fair share of international flights will use WSA.
Western Sydney will be most likely be what Avalon is to Melbourne, i.e. primarily used by budget airlines and freighters. The major players will continue to use Mascot.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

moa999 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:48 pm Continuing the Airport Metro to the M1 will also make it far more desirable for those in the NW.
I think that it will be many decades away before the metro will be extended from St Marys to Tallawong or Macarthur. There are other metro proposals which would have greater priority.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

The Captain de Groot of Western Sydney Airport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtd4YKuaprw
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