PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Bus Suggestions »

So it's confirmed that 3200 comes after 2899? Interesting, but I guess another unsurprising choice. This leaves 3103-3199 open, I believe maybe when Path will get deliveries past 2799?
Transperth routes grouped by contract area can be found here. Current as at 2/11/2020.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Squiddy »

Bus Suggestions wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:52 pm So it's confirmed that 3200 comes after 2899? Interesting, but I guess another unsurprising choice. This leaves 3103-3199 open, I believe maybe when Path will get deliveries past 2799?
Or perhaps they're leaving the number range open in case they decide to get more artics in the future? We shall see!
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Bus-1809 »

There is at least another 30 artics on order or soon to be ordered, I understand, which will use the 3103-3199 block. I assume Transdev and PATH will get the 3300 and 3400 blocks. Still puzzles me as to why they don't just go back to 150 or 200 and just start from there but anyway, what do I know, I'm just a bus driver :lol:
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Woolies_truck »

3103 is due in the last couple of months of this year, it’ll be a B8RLEA
Last edited by Woolies_truck on Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Bus Suggestions »

Prior to the B12s and the oddballs entering service, there were 58 high-floor artics (21 VöV-I O305Gs, 19 VöV-II O305Gs, 18 PR180.2s). After delivery of the next 30 artics (which, to me, comes as a surprise), the artic fleet will total 133 representing around 8% of the total fleet. Certainly interesting seeing the percentage of artics grow in the fleet. Definitely will help with new routes, services and future patronage growth.
Transperth routes grouped by contract area can be found here. Current as at 2/11/2020.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by sylar »

If 31xx is being reserved for future new artics (and great to hear there is potentially another 30 new artics on the cards) then yeah 32xx would be the logical next fleet range for Swan. I couldn't see the PTA recycling old fleet numbers for new deliveries, the ex Perth CAT's was a unique scenario with a small group of existing vehicles requiring a identity change therefore they recycled some really old fleet numbers for this purpose. I cant see this happening again now that all of the fleet carry TP plates regardless of their location/function. (With exception of the 4x Dolphins and remainder of UQB's)
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Merc1107 »

Bus Suggestions wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:39 pm Prior to the B12s and the oddballs entering service, there were 58 high-floor artics (21 VöV-I O305Gs, 19 VöV-II O305Gs, 18 PR180.2s). After delivery of the next 30 artics (which, to me, comes as a surprise), the artic fleet will total 133 representing around 8% of the total fleet. Certainly interesting seeing the percentage of artics grow in the fleet. Definitely will help with new routes, services and future patronage growth.
I imagine you meant 65 Renault artics :)
Don't forget the 7 MAN SG292Hs and lone SG192H demonstrator - a total of 106 high floor artics operated by Transperth.

So even at present, the number of articulated buses in the fleet still has not surpassed historical levels. Their usage today is quite different to back then - for instance many artics saw service on busy, long services on the freeways prior to the northern, and later southern suburbs railways opening.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Enviro 500 »

I thought Transperth fleet has already gone full WAB. Didn't know we still had high-floor artics.

Anyway, it's a shame conditions aren't conducive for the B8Ls here.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Off The Rails »

Enviro 500 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:13 am I thought Transperth fleet has already gone full WAB. Didn't know we still had high-floor artics.

Anyway, it's a shame conditions aren't conducive for the B8Ls here.
The last Renault PR180.2 (pretty sure it was 722), was around in March 2018, but scrapped shortly afterwards.

And as much as I would like to see double deckers (spent quite a few hours on them in Sydney back in February), the fact that Perth Busport was not built with deckers in mind shows that it's also not on the radar for the PTA. Plus, there would only be a few select routes that they could work on (such as the 40) without major modifications to routes/infrastructure.

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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Bus Suggestions »

Merc1107 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:19 pm I imagine you meant 65 Renault artics :)
Don't forget the 7 MAN SG292Hs and lone SG192H demonstrator - a total of 106 high floor artics operated by Transperth.
Yes, I didn't realise I had missed 47 artics (the number did feel pretty low), turns out Perthbus has two 'new buses' entries for the PR180.2s. And I did forget the 5 SG292Hs and old number 12. So I assume, with a smaller fleet then, the artics did constitute a larger percentage of the fleet. Definitely an interesting statistic, definitely glad now that new artics will be coming. These buses (I presume) will have the same additional features as the new B8s, such as Thoreb placement and external cameras?

On another note, it is about prime time for 3000-3002 to be going through mid-life refurb, as they all still carry the old livery (thereby placing them older than 2040, the first bus in the new livery, and up to 2025 are currently back from refurb).
Transperth routes grouped by contract area can be found here. Current as at 2/11/2020.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Merc1107 »

Off The Rails wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:22 am And as much as I would like to see double deckers (spent quite a few hours on them in Sydney back in February), the fact that Perth Busport was not built with deckers in mind shows that it's also not on the radar for the PTA. Plus, there would only be a few select routes that they could work on (such as the 40) without major modifications to routes/infrastructure.
'What about 14.5m tri-axle rigids?' was my first thought in response to this. Then I checked their seating capacity (15 more seats on a BT example vs our B7s)... Volvo rigids are licensed for 82 (per the sticker on the front bulkhead) - so if one simply added 15 to that you get 97 passengers. Presumably a 14.5m bus can hold more standing passengers, so once you consider that, and the fact our artics are licensed for 110 passengers - there went that little idea :lol:

There are probably a small number of areas on the network where buses with extra seating capacity would be welcomed. Could they be justified, though? Not sure.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Enviro 500 »

Merc1107 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:25 pm
Off The Rails wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:22 am And as much as I would like to see double deckers (spent quite a few hours on them in Sydney back in February), the fact that Perth Busport was not built with deckers in mind shows that it's also not on the radar for the PTA. Plus, there would only be a few select routes that they could work on (such as the 40) without major modifications to routes/infrastructure.
'What about 14.5m tri-axle rigids?' was my first thought in response to this. Then I checked their seating capacity (15 more seats on a BT example vs our B7s)... Volvo rigids are licensed for 82 (per the sticker on the front bulkhead) - so if one simply added 15 to that you get 97 passengers. Presumably a 14.5m bus can hold more standing passengers, so once you consider that, and the fact our artics are licensed for 110 passengers - there went that little idea :lol:

There are probably a small number of areas on the network where buses with extra seating capacity would be welcomed. Could they be justified, though? Not sure.
So the B8RLEA only can carry 110 pax at most? That's almost 30 less than the B8L.

https://sgwiki.com/wiki/Volvo_B8L_(Wrig ... _Gemini_3)
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Bus Suggestions »

The B8RLEA is legally licensed, as per most other artics like the B12BLEA, to hold max 110 pax. Of course physically, they can hold more, but in terms of safe operation, that's the cap.

The fundamental difference in purpose between double-deckers and artics is that with a single-level and at least 3 doors, artics are suited to high-capacity, high-turnover (all-stops) routes. However with 2 decks and typically 2 or 3 doors, double-deckers are suited to high-capacity, long-distance, low-turnover (limited stops/express-style) routes, such as the old 867, the only (?) time double-deckers were used by Transperth. This is why the PTA is leaning to artics - we have more high-turnover routes (e.g. 950) than long-distance, limited stops routes.
Transperth routes grouped by contract area can be found here. Current as at 2/11/2020.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Squiddy »

Enviro 500 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:53 pm
So the B8RLEA only can carry 110 pax at most? That's almost 30 less than the B8L.

https://sgwiki.com/wiki/Volvo_B8L_(Wrig ... _Gemini_3)
So the B8L can only carry 137 pax at most? That's almost 120 less than the AutoTram AG.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoTram_Extra_Grand

What's your point? Bigger buses aren't always better.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Mr OC Benz »

Bus Suggestions wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:59 pm The B8RLEA is legally licensed, as per most other artics like the B12BLEA, to hold max 110 pax. Of course physically, they can hold more, but in terms of safe operation, that's the cap.
And that 'safe' limit of 110 pax is determined not just by physical space itself but also by how it is calculated (i.e. standing space per person) and any overall weight limitations in the operating jurisdiction. E.g. The same/similar Volvo artics in NSW and QLD are licensed to carry around 115 pax but also have minor differences (such as aircon pods, seating arrangements etc).

The stated capacity for the B8L would likely be calculated with less standing space allowance per person and if the same bus was to operate in any Australian jurisdiction, current weight limitations would prohibit it from carrying anywhere near the 137 pax stated.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by actually »

Bus Suggestions wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:51 pm
Merc1107 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:19 pm I imagine you meant 65 Renault artics :)
Don't forget the 7 MAN SG292Hs and lone SG192H demonstrator - a total of 106 high floor artics operated by Transperth.
Yes, I didn't realise I had missed 47 artics (the number did feel pretty low), turns out Perthbus has two 'new buses' entries for the PR180.2s. And I did forget the 5 SG292Hs and old number 12. So I assume, with a smaller fleet then, the artics did constitute a larger percentage of the fleet. Definitely an interesting statistic, definitely glad now that new artics will be coming. These buses (I presume) will have the same additional features as the new B8s, such as Thoreb placement and external cameras?

On another note, it is about prime time for 3000-3002 to be going through mid-life refurb, as they all still carry the old livery (thereby placing them older than 2040, the first bus in the new livery, and up to 2025 are currently back from refurb).

TP1878 was in the new livery from early 2010, before 2040 was delivered
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Enviro 500 »

Squiddy wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:27 pm
Enviro 500 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:53 pm
So the B8RLEA only can carry 110 pax at most? That's almost 30 less than the B8L.

https://sgwiki.com/wiki/Volvo_B8L_(Wrig ... _Gemini_3)
So the B8L can only carry 137 pax at most? That's almost 120 less than the AutoTram AG.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoTram_Extra_Grand

What's your point? Bigger buses aren't always better.
Looks like the Muggle answer to the Knight Bus. 😂

But I digress.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Enviro 500 »

Bus Suggestions wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:59 pm The B8RLEA is legally licensed, as per most other artics like the B12BLEA, to hold max 110 pax. Of course physically, they can hold more, but in terms of safe operation, that's the cap.

The fundamental difference in purpose between double-deckers and artics is that with a single-level and at least 3 doors, artics are suited to high-capacity, high-turnover (all-stops) routes. However with 2 decks and typically 2 or 3 doors, double-deckers are suited to high-capacity, long-distance, low-turnover (limited stops/express-style) routes, such as the old 867, the only (?) time double-deckers were used by Transperth. This is why the PTA is leaning to artics - we have more high-turnover routes (e.g. 950) than long-distance, limited stops routes.
High-capacity routes with high turnover in Hong Kong and Singapore have been allocated double deckers all these years without issue. Even Kuala Lumpur and Penang have purchased similar vehicles in recent years.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by TP1462 »

2096 spotted turning right onto Nicholson road on a 930 to Thornlie station pretty sure I got it on my dash cam
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Zidanehartono »

TP1462 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:20 pm 2096 spotted turning right onto Nicholson road on a 930 to Thornlie station pretty sure I got it on my dash cam
You are not alone as i saw 2096 at Thornlie Station before it departs for its 8:00AM 930T to the city.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Enviro 500 »

I was at Thornlie station at quarter to 8 on my way to work. Missed seeing the new kid at SR depot.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by the c man »

2482 & 2812 both at Midvale
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Woolies_truck »

2097 also spotted on Southern River running.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by Enviro 500 »

2482 originally from which depot? I know 2812 was with SP.

Could the transfer of 2096 and 2097 have something to do with the influx of B8s in the Marmion region? A shiny new B8 was photographed on 990 lately.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - 2020

Post by the c man »

Enviro 500 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:46 pm 2482 originally from which depot? I know 2812 was with SP.

Could the transfer of 2096 and 2097 have something to do with the influx of B8s in the Marmion region? A shiny new B8 was photographed on 990 lately.
2482 was delivered to Midvale around 4 years ago, then was transferred to Canningvale until recently.
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