January 2021 timetable changes

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion
TT
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by TT »

Timetables and routes (and fares) are totally government responsibility, with the companies (Busways, Torrens, Southlink) contracted to run the actual services. I understand that as part of the tender process companies were asked to include possible changes/improvements to the areas being tendered for. The government's attempt to implement many of these changes during 2020 was the big failure under the previous transport Minister that we are all aware of. In answer to you question, bigrobbo, Busways cannot alter their timetables and routes.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Merc1107 »

That's interesting to hear, as on some other networks, the operator has at least some (regular) input into the network they operate. In theory that approach should lead to both the Government and Contractor(s) working together to make incremental changes that suit the public's needs - versus the complete flop the proposed sweeping changes ended up being.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by TT »

I’m sure contractors talk to the government about potential timetable and route changes. But it’s not for contractors to make the changes which is what bigrobbo asked.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by bigrobbo »

TT wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:11 pm I’m sure contractors talk to the government about potential timetable and route changes. But it’s not for contractors to make the changes which is what bigrobbo asked.
I should have clarified that Busways need to go through the appropriate approvals to make any changes it thinks will help it's service area run better and/or more efficiently.

Just because it was the best solution when a route was introduced in the 1970s or 1980s or 1990s or 2000s or 2010s, it does not mean that it's the best option in 2021.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by jibb »

I doubt we are going to see any major changes before the next election.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Lieselta »

jibb wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:22 am I doubt we are going to see any major changes before the next election.
Agree with this. Major changes after the disaster that was last year would be an electoral death wish for the Libs.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Merc1107 »

Why should gradual, but persistent change be a nail in the coffin for the Liberals? Okay, the 'New Network' was a cornerstone of the Transport Minister's plans to improve efficiency and patronage, but shouldn't the relevant Govt. department in SA be aiming to carrying out those sorts of objectives anyway?
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Lieselta »

Merc1107 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:29 pm Why should gradual, but persistent change be a nail in the coffin for the Liberals? Okay, the 'New Network' was a cornerstone of the Transport Minister's plans to improve efficiency and patronage, but shouldn't the relevant Govt. department in SA be aiming to carrying out those sorts of objectives anyway?
The public wouldn't see it that way (they're not clued into it the same way we are) and there's a chance even usual changes could be taken as trying to mess with the public transport system again. Loss of trust is hard to get back.
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Admet75
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Admet75 »

The willingness to change in the eyes of the public is something very noteworthy for a lot of public transport observers and planners alike.

Unfortunately, Adelaide has had for many years I can remember a very conservative approach to public transport but its planners have done the best as they could and they followed the 500 metre rule when it came to how far a household should be near a public transport stop/station.

Most of Adelaide's main roads have a decent enough public transport if we classify the Go-Zone concept which many years ago I actually defined as in a presentation as: Go-Zones= repackaging of main road bus routes into a single product and putting a brand name on it.

This is what I would call a successful concept that other states soon followed like: Brisbane (BUZ), Sydney (Metrobus), and Perth (High Frequency) and recent as Launceston and Hobart (Turn Up and Go). The reality is that not every route in Adelaide (nor should it be) can have a Go-Zone type of frequency. We know there are many bus routes in Adelaide that deserve the chop and some just need some tweaking to make them not only turn into a Go-Zone or a little more frequent but it all comes down to the dollars and given we have seen successive government follow the "Cost Neutral" mantra or Rob Peter to Pay Paul Principle. Public transport operators need to come up with innovative ways to improve services. By the way the 'Cost Neutral' mantra is a worldwide problem not confined to Adelaide or indeed Australia.

We have a problem in Adelaide whereby it wasn't a success was if everyone remembers the 1993 North West timetable changes focusing on the West Lakes, Le Fevre Peninsula, Arndale. The aim was simply introduce a new Transit Link service (TL4 City to Port Adelaide via Torrens Road) and Ottoway and Mansfield Park residents would have a feeder service that would be timetabled connections at Arndale to the TL4 for their journey into the city.

The second service change was to implement Transit Link peak hour trains from Glanville and Ethelton which would operate express from those stations to the City only stopping at Port Adelaide and Woodville. Glanville station had a major upgrade in order of a new bus/rail interchange being built there (which is now having cobwebs building on it). Plus Ethelton was aimed as a minor bus/rail interchange. Both of these stations had feeder services from West Lakes, and Le Fevre suburbs of Semaphore, Largs Bay, North Haven, Outer Harbour, and also Taperoo timetable coordinated with the rail service to enable residents to get a quick journey into the city. Yes even in non peak hours there was always a case that coordination took place between buses and trains. To me it was a great success and also you have the MAN Wheelchair Midi's going around on the routes 333, 334, 336 and 330. These were the first area in Adelaide (ie. Le Fevre) which had an exclusive set of wheelchair accessible vehicles on all services.

However, Adelaide people as they are they do not like to change from one mode to another but even planners have noted this in Perth but have said as long as the place where they have to change is modern and comfortable (which unfortunately Adelaide's bus and rail interchanges are not readily known for compared to Perth's) they will resent changing from one mode to another.

When Torrens took over the bus contracts in the North-West they stopped the feeder services but remembering that some of the feeder services were previously all direct to the city via Port Road, like City to Semaphore via Port Road and Port Adelaide, City to North Haven via Port Road and Victoria Road, City to Largs Bay via Port Adelaide and Port Road and so on. Some of these services were not reintroduced.

What we know is that Adelaide people don't like change but the only way I think they would like change is if they are consulted on thoroughly before a big change. The consultation that went on before was a shambles because no one knew what was happening and the government was in constant denial. However, in other capital cities as I have said before all households are letter boxed a booklet that highlights the changes and what will happen and the draft booklet has excellent maps, proposed time span of operations, frequency and what is in it for them and why the change would be beneficial to them and the whole community- Adelaide does not want to do this because the politicians are forcing them to cut budgets and not spend any money on marketing a public transport service- in other words the government just wants you not to know a public transport system exists and yes that is why there is no public transport hard copy of a network map or Metroguide- don't forget other cities in the world are happy to give you a printed network map of its public transport system but the Government of SA are ashamed of its own public transport system.

As we all know public transport in Adelaide is now outsourced (not privatised) we look forward to seeing what each operator has in store for us to improve services and whether we like it or not one day Adelaide's public transport system might be again envy of other states (as it was in the 1970s and 1980s) but the reality is that we have to change the mindset of not only South Australian residents but politicians who only give a token gesture towards public transport until then we are truly stuck as someone high up in the transport department said that Adelaide's public transport system has not evolved since 1990!
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by jibb »

Regretfully our Bus Contractors whom I am sure have developed good solutions for their contract areas wont get anywhere as SAPTA under Government directions won't allow major changes to happen,especially after last year's planned changes debacle.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by TT »

Admet75 thanks for bringing up the old Le Fevre connectors in so much detail.
As one who lives between West Lakes and Port Adelaide, I remember the 333 and 336 feeder services well, operating with brand new MAN midis. A frequent service in both directions so getting to city had option of 336 (or 333) to Ethelton station and then a quick train trip (express in peak) to the city, or catch the 336 (or 333) in opposite direction to West Lakes and catch TL2 into city (only stopping at Albert Pk and Welland from memory). The connections generally worked well, Ethelton more so than West Lakes. The current 157X isn’t a bad replacement but unfortunately only in peak (I believe TL2 ran all day but could be wrong).
The proposal put forward during 2020 had feeder bus services along Military Rd and Bartley Tce (no mention of frequency in the proposals) through West Lakes Shore and Semaphore Pk to West Lakes and transfer to an all stops bus service to the city even in peak, with no mention in the proposals of these services being connectors, just an irregular service that got you to West Lakes, although the WL to city was proposed to be a go zone so maximum 15 minute wait. And no connections to any train services: connecting to Grange train for a 22 minute all stops trip to city made more sense than a 40 minute all stops bus service to the city.
Back then 137 (28K) did Military Rd through Tennyson half hourly during the day as well as the 340 (33/34) route hourly I think. In recent years this has been reduced to a handful of 112 (29J) trips to city in am peak only and away from city in pm peak and 6 services per day of 371/2 to West Lakes only. Under the 2020 proposals this section reduced to no service, yet a Grange connecting service as mentioned above would have kept a regular service along there.
I’m sure the 2020 proposals were full of improvements for people lucky enough to be living near major roads but because of the “cost neutral” budgeting caused significantly inferior or zero services to people living away from major roads. And I’m sure they’re the people who made the most noise.
End of rant.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Lt. Commander Data »

I think the 2020 network was very innovative and would have modernised the system (and finally drag us away from the MTT tram network).

I understand the issue of feeder bus services however, and perhaps with some tweaks here and there they could have been modified to create more traffic on them.

From memory, the Le Ferve feeders were going to be half hourly, which when connecting to a 10-15 minutely service to the City works well (every second or third ex-City bus would connect you)
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TT
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by TT »

There was no mention of frequencies for routes other than the go zones.
Catch a bus on Bartley Tce, 10 mins to WL, wait 10, then an all stops to the city. That’s not selling public transport to the public. The current all stops 117 would be quicker, though most 117 users in the morning peak transfer to a 157X at WL, showing that transfers aren’t hated. I have no problem with feeder services (the 333 and 336 were great). If the connection was with an express service it would be an improvement.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by jibb »

The Peninsula was to have had "On Demand" services as part of the revamp.
There were many good ideas as part of the revamp,but there were lots of downsides,one being some busy roads were going to be deprived of services,and the stupid plan to not have any services from Flagstafd Hill,Aberfoyle Park going direct to and from the City, but rather a train feeder service which would make the total trip longer?
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Eurostar »

jibb wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:11 pm I wonder what purpose this will serve?
A difference of 10 minutes or so may mean the company won't need to pay overtime.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Eurostar »

A tinkering of bus routes in northern Adelaide could be considered.
For example:

228 divert to Lyell McEwin Hospital
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by jibb »

Regrettably the new Transport Minister is like the previous Minister Knoll and has the same mindser.
Plus the powerful SAPTA under the leadership of Tony Braxton-Smith is not terribly interested in our Public Transport system,and he will do what he and his team want to do, irrespective of what Minister Corey Wingard may or may not want.
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Re: January 2021 timetable changes

Post by Bus Suggestions »

Part of the downfall of the 2020 network was that it was too much in too little time, with one service change affecting the entire network, rather than evaluating smaller areas of the Adelaide network and reforming some parts first, so that over time, it would result in a transformed network. Nor do I believe there was a lot of detailed consultation, since the service change was rather broad itself. I'd say some other downfalls of the 2020 network were well summarised in this Melbourne on Transit blog post, I believe the author is on this board by the name of PaxInfo.
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