Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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verbatim9
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Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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verbatim9
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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News.com.au--->Foreign investment interest means fast rail in Australia could finally become a reality.
Fast rail in Australia has been a long-held dream for many in the country and one expert believes conditions could finally be right for projects to move ahead.
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1whoknows
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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Or is this just a backdoor version of Belt and Road? I note the journalist is of Chinese origin.
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Megumi
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

Post by Megumi »

1whoknows wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:48 am Or is this just a backdoor version of Belt and Road? I note the journalist is of Chinese origin.
Trust every Australian, no matter where this person is originated. Unless in the military, it is very dangerous to pay too much attention to people's patriotism.
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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1whoknows wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:48 am Or is this just a backdoor version of Belt and Road? I note the journalist is of Chinese origin.
Charis Chang is an Australian. Among her reporting she has covered stalking and intimidation of Chinese students in Australia by the Chinese government, not a topic that would endear her to the Chinese government in any way. One has to be very careful during the growing conflict with the Chinese government (the Chinese Communist Party) that anyone of Chinese ethnic origin is not tarred with the same brush. Most outside China (and a large but hidden number inside) are vehemently opposed to the Chinese government. I saw nothing in her article that suggested investment by China.

Better to ask Brisbane City Council and Transdev why they are acquiring Chinese buses!
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1whoknows
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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Its just that the combination of foreign investment and fast rail suggests Chinese interest.
I'm not particularly aware of who else is interested in building fast rail here at this time.
Personally I wouldn't want China building anything here the way their bridges, freeways, buildings etc seem to suffer random collapses.
And why single out the BCC and Transdev? There are several thousand Chinese built buses running around all over Australia on school runs, industrial runs, inbound tourism (back when we had it) and charters in addition to the relatively few citybuses so far.
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tonyp
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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1whoknows wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:37 am Its just that the combination of foreign investment and fast rail suggests Chinese interest.
I'm not particularly aware of who else is interested in building fast rail here at this time.
Personally I wouldn't want China building anything here the way their bridges, freeways, buildings etc seem to suffer random collapses.
And why single out the BCC and Transdev? There are several thousand Chinese built buses running around all over Australia on school runs, industrial runs, inbound tourism (back when we had it) and charters in addition to the relatively few citybuses so far.
I agree that there is likely something lurking in the background there but at the moment the setting has changed, with just about every country in the world now being nervous about, or even hostile to China. While Australia is still very much in the diplomacy phase, there aren't going to be any trade retaliations by us but, in the background, suppliers are quietly and steadily diversifying their sourcing (the "Plan B" that Morrison encouraged a year ago). The train and bus industries are inevitably going to be drawn into this and, for anything that's not going to be made locally, they're going to be looking more at sourcing from locations like Europe, India and a host of smaller countries.

In terms of Chinese buses already being brought into Australia, we can disregard the many buses already brought in because they were fairly purchased when the political and trade environment were still "normal". However, when we're talking about buses and chassis imported since 2020 (which means, most significantly, electric buses) it's a different kettle of fish. There has been a phase, of course, when there was no local alternative to Chinese electric buses, but now that Custom Denning, Volgren/Volvo and whatever is to come from Bustech are on the scene, it will become politically unconscionable to source electric buses from China, particularly when there are alternatives largely sourced in Australia. In the longer term, it will also emerge that the initial price saving for a Chinese bus will be eroded by issues like being not built for a 25 year lifecycle and higher maintenance (particularly where hub motors are used).

As for trains and long-distance rail, I think it would be a brave government that allows future construction to be sourced to CRRC. NSW will be getting its long-distance trains from Spain, its metro trains come from India. WA is sourcing its fleets of all modes within WA. Both states indicate a trend that is likely to grow.
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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tonyp wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:21 am WA is sourcing its fleets of all modes within WA.
Actually the W.A. order appears to be facing scrutiny over the fact a number of components seem to be sourced from manufacturers associated with the Uyghur Human Rights abuses. I've pasted an article in the Forced Labour Use in China-Sourced Transportation Products thread for further discussion.
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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1whoknows wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:37 am Its just that the combination of foreign investment and fast rail suggests Chinese interest.
I'm not particularly aware of who else is interested in building fast rail here at this time.
Japan has been exporting its HSR technology for some time. I believe they have been involved with a couple of new installations in other countries (Taiwan and India).
https://www.nippon.com/en/behind/l00146/
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1whoknows
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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ABC May magazine shows 28 deliveries of Chinese buses to Australian operators just for the month of April (this includes the Transdev electrics). The June issue shows May deliveries as 17 Chinese buses.
In terms of WA "fleets of all modes being sourced locally" that's just wrong. There were 8 Yutongs and 7 BCIs delivered to WA operators in April and 8 Yutong and 1 BLK in May. They remain the "go to" purchase type for many school bus and resource sector operators. There is so much more to the Australian bus industry than just low floor city buses.
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tonyp
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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1whoknows wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:40 am ABC May magazine shows 28 deliveries of Chinese buses to Australian operators just for the month of April (this includes the Transdev electrics). The June issue shows May deliveries as 17 Chinese buses.
In terms of WA "fleets of all modes being sourced locally" that's just wrong. There were 8 Yutongs and 7 BCIs delivered to WA operators in April and 8 Yutong and 1 BLK in May. They remain the "go to" purchase type for many school bus and resource sector operators. There is so much more to the Australian bus industry than just low floor city buses.
Yes of course I was just thinking of Perth, so thanks for the correction. A lot of buses bought by schools themselves (often Higers) are Chinese too. The incentive would be price I imagine. They might discover a few things about longevity and maintenance further down the track. Good luck to them all, as the whole thing is heading for a big dark hole.
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Megumi
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

Post by Megumi »

tonyp wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:46 am
1whoknows wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:40 am ABC May magazine shows 28 deliveries of Chinese buses to Australian operators just for the month of April (this includes the Transdev electrics). The June issue shows May deliveries as 17 Chinese buses.
In terms of WA "fleets of all modes being sourced locally" that's just wrong. There were 8 Yutongs and 7 BCIs delivered to WA operators in April and 8 Yutong and 1 BLK in May. They remain the "go to" purchase type for many school bus and resource sector operators. There is so much more to the Australian bus industry than just low floor city buses.
Yes of course I was just thinking of Perth, so thanks for the correction. A lot of buses bought by schools themselves (often Higers) are Chinese too. The incentive would be price I imagine. They might discover a few things about longevity and maintenance further down the track. Good luck to them all, as the whole thing is heading for a big dark hole.
A painful truth is, more and more entities have to choose Chinese buses because they have significant financial risk if they purchase too many European buses. In addition, I have read an article that pointed out that YUTONG and KINGLONG's dealerships can offer one-stop aftersales jobs and that is pretty much a great benefit.

I'm not sure whether Australia&NZ could be the biggest market for Chinese buses while European operators can still afford German-made buses. Australia should ease the limitation of body width to 2.55m which I think can be helpful. Some of my friends make it as evidence for the "free market", but I think this ironic truth proves the story to "another direction".

By the way, I don't think Chinese products are cheap for sure. A YUTONG T13 is on sale at A$350,000 which is fairly expensive for a Euro 5 diesel bus. Maybe we're a third-world market in their opinion. :roll:
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

Post by Megumi »

boronia wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:35 pm
1whoknows wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:37 am Its just that the combination of foreign investment and fast rail suggests Chinese interest.
I'm not particularly aware of who else is interested in building fast rail here at this time.
Japan has been exporting its HSR technology for some time. I believe they have been involved with a couple of new installations in other countries (Taiwan and India).
https://www.nippon.com/en/behind/l00146/
No, I don't like Japanese tech! Siemens all the way! :D
Megumi
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

Post by Megumi »

1whoknows wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:37 am Its just that the combination of foreign investment and fast rail suggests Chinese interest.
I'm not particularly aware of who else is interested in building fast rail here at this time.
Personally I wouldn't want China building anything here the way their bridges, freeways, buildings etc seem to suffer random collapses.
And why single out the BCC and Transdev? There are several thousand Chinese built buses running around all over Australia on school runs, industrial runs, inbound tourism (back when we had it) and charters in addition to the relatively few citybuses so far.
More Chinese buses owned by private operators than public services operators, because public transport is funded by the government, which means they have a great (expensive) team to maintain the fleet. However, private owners can't do maintenance work too much more for their buses more than a BMW. In this case, a kind of one-stop service is pretty important. Australian business is left behind by foreign companies in terms of customer experience.
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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No t really. Government also funds most rural school services. In Qld, SA and WA once governments discovered Chinese buses were cheaper they lowered the payments for fleet replacements - hence lots of Chinese buses on school contracts in those states from around 2008. Guess what. Instead of lasting 20 years they're lasting about half. Your comments about private operator maintenance standards just display your ignorance.
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Megumi
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

Post by Megumi »

1whoknows wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:52 am No t really. Government also funds most rural school services. In Qld, SA and WA once governments discovered Chinese buses were cheaper they lowered the payments for fleet replacements - hence lots of Chinese buses on school contracts in those states from around 2008. Guess what. Instead of lasting 20 years they're lasting about half. Your comments about private operator maintenance standards just display your ignorance.
Alright, so those local governments should increase their running budgets to fix the problem. However, it can be a tough job.
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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Its state government funding - the same ones you are praising above for having "expensive" teams.
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verbatim9
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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

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Re: Queensland Fast Rail and HSR

Post by verbatim9 »

^^I think what they mean here with the Toowoomba solution is that fast rail will run to Helidon or Withcott, with a transfer to rapid bus to Toowoomba from either of these two centres.
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