Identify This Leyland Bus.

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Denv12
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Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Denv12 »

2.24 (868 x 797).jpg
Can anyone identify this Leyland bus? Who is the bus builder? What year was it built? Who owned it after?
Its a photo taken in 1982 at the wool stores in Bedford Street,Gillman.My late father,Jack G Sellick rented land there.He later bought a premisis back towards Gray Terrace.
Thanks.

Update:
I added a Lewis bros bus photo for comparison.
The side windows are smaller than the Lewis body.Is it possible it was built by Superior?
Both photos I posted were taken at the time by Jack Sellick.

Another update:
Just added another photo of it.Side view.
Attachments
2.24-4 (694 x 515).jpg
2.24-4 (694 x 515).jpg (48.93 KiB) Viewed 28629 times
2.29 (499 x 360).jpg
2.29 (499 x 360).jpg (49.36 KiB) Viewed 28818 times
Last edited by Denv12 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.
paulgersche
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by paulgersche »

Hi, Denv12

Just from the look of it, I would say that it definitely has Lewis heritage ...

Paul.
paulgersche
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by paulgersche »

I have trawled through some pics and it could be ex Lewis 60. I don't know who took the pic so I won't post it here, though, without their permission.

Paul (again!)
burrumbus
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by burrumbus »

Looks like a Lewis Bros body to me Denv.
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Bedford-29
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Bedford-29 »

What I could find out from a post by system improver from 9/4/2009 its a Leyland Super Hippo bodied and owned by Lewis Bros built 1970 it was RNT-811 with the engine put to the rear
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system improver
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by system improver »

paulgersche wrote:I have trawled through some pics and it could be ex Lewis 60. I don't know who took the pic so I won't post it here, though, without their permission.

Paul (again!)
Correct Paul. Here is a John Masterton shot of it in lay-over in Melbourne:
IMG_0119 - Copy.jpg
Denv12
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Denv12 »

Snap 2017-07-31 at 08.20.59 (716 x 413).jpg
Snap 2017-07-31 at 08.20.59 (716 x 413).jpg (51.36 KiB) Viewed 28686 times
system improver wrote:
paulgersche wrote:I have trawled through some pics and it could be ex Lewis 60. I don't know who took the pic so I won't post it here, though, without their permission.

Paul (again!)
Correct Paul. Here is a John Masterton shot of it in lay-over in Melbourne:
The attachment IMG_0119 - Copy.jpg is no longer available
Thanks Paul and system improver.Identity solved.Great photo too.Wonder what happened to it. Would it be the same one in a yard in Bayley Street of Coolgardie WA? That was a Leyland too.It might have been one of Quest Tours dating back to 1985.It was sold off in late 1985 by Buscoach.It was modified with a lot of Austral parts.
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Quest Tours (511 x 346).jpg
Quest Tours (511 x 346).jpg (35.07 KiB) Viewed 28686 times
Tim Williams
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Tim Williams »

As has been correctly identified that first photo is ex Lewis Bros No 60, in a mechanical sense it was a twin to No 55. Both coaches built up from Leyland Hippo and other parts, with very heavy 5 or 6 speed constant mesh gearboxes, both being quite difficult to drive. The old 680 must have had a large flywheel which results in the engines revs going up and down slowly and therefore slow but accurate timing of the double clutch gear-changes was vital - the fact that the gearbox was mounted at the rear, between the rear axle and the engine with sometimes an inoperative rev counter, made the task even more difficult - not to mention the reverse pattern to the gears and a very imprecise shift mechanism.

Additionally because the heavy nature of that gearbox, it was normal to select second gear when just stopping at traffic lights, ready for a reasonably prompt departure on green, but occasionally the hydraulics in the clutch would fail and you would move off - even on idle, with the clutch pedal fully depressed and not being physically able to shift the gear lever to neutral! This happened to me crossing Magill Road in Adelaide - fortunately I was first in line at the lights, when on red lights, I just took off slowly, on red lights, with traffic, screaming to a halt on either side. Once moving with a little feathering of the accelerator, it became possible to get the bus out of gear. I think these two coaches (55 and 60) had Holden slave cylinders which just were not up to the task and holding the buses in gear, which the clutch depressed, was too much for them. The alternative was to wait at the lights in neutral and depress the clutch and start selecting second, which would take quite a while for the revs to synchronise and allow complete selection of the gear - holding up traffic the the process.
Denv12
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Denv12 »

There's a photo of another similar looking Lewis Bros bus but larger windows and rear engined.Its about the 14th photo down

http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewt ... 45&t=76874

Its good to see this vehicle getting some interest.
Last edited by Denv12 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tim Williams
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Tim Williams »

Hi, That coach registered RTB 855 is Lewis Bros no 55 which is the (mechanical) twin to No 60 - the body looks, in a design sense, better balanced than no 60 which looks all wheels and wheel arches, due to 60's shallower side windows and maybe a slightly lower build. I see in the photo caption it is referred to as an Albion VK55 (or something like that) - most of Lewis's Albions were Clydesdales, which is, supposedly a heavier duty version of the Viking, with full air brakes as opposed to air over hydraulic with the Viking. However, as has been said, both 55 and 60 used a lot of Leyland Hippo components from written off trucks - maybe part of the chassis rails and other bits and pieces came from their Albion stock.

I will see if I have further detail on these two fascinating coaches.
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Bedford-29
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Bedford-29 »

Here is a picture of Lewis Bros 55 which is a Leyland despite having Albion on the front.Picture from the Andrew Potts collection
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LEWIS BROS L-55 LEYLAND RTB-844
LEWIS BROS L-55 LEYLAND RTB-844
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Fleet Lists »

Lewis Bros 55 was RTB 855 and not this one which is RTB 844. And it certainly looks different to the bus which started this discussion.
Living in the Shire.
paulgersche
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by paulgersche »

Fleet Lists,

I have a B&W photo in my collection (which again I will not post as I am unsure as to where to give credit) which clearly show the front of Lewis Bros 55 as being registered RTB844. I know it was 55, because it was from the days when Lewis used to put their fleet numbers on the vehicle.

And, yes, it is a different bus to the one that started this thread, but Tim Williams was pointing out the mechanical similarities only with LB #55 and #60, which got us onto this tangent.

Regards,
Paul
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Car177
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Car177 »

It was at Woodford Qld., many years back.
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by OLYMPIAN »

Bedford-29 wrote:Here is a picture of Lewis Bros 55 which is a Leyland despite having Albion on the front.Picture from the Andrew Potts collection
IS there any of these preserved?

Love to see a close up picture of the hub reduction
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Tim Williams
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Tim Williams »

IMG_0001_edited-1.jpg
IMG_0001_edited-1.jpg (76.43 KiB) Viewed 28336 times
I am sorry for going off at a tangent, but as has been correctly pointed out, I only introduced information about No.55 because it was mechanically the same as No. 60 (I should say it was as much the same as was possible with the Lewis iconic and idiosyncratic approach to bus building!). Visually they look different because of No.60's shallower side windows and maybe lower build line, which appears to exaggerate the size of wheel arches, compared to No.55.

The photo shows No. 55 in its original livery - I came up with the "LB" and the almost snake like line underneath - the colour schemes looked better on buses than coaches. Looking back at it now, it looks somewhat amateur and I am not sure that it achieved anything.
Tim Williams
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by Tim Williams »

I am not an engineer (I am actually an accountant) - but here is the expert's description of hub reduction (which is essentially a small differential with the full engine torque being achieved at the wheels through planetary gears in the wheel centres:

James Randall, Spent an entire working life in automotive engineering and this is his explanation.

A drive axle in a truck or military vehicle (or a rear wheel drive car) provides the final gear reduction from the propellor shaft before transferring the power into the road wheels .This is normally achieved by a pinion and crown wheel gear set. Depending on the number of teeth on the pinion and the crown wheel, revolutions can be typically reduced from 3 to 7 times. This is known as single reduction (all gear reduction takes place in the pinion/crown wheel meshing). This is generally OK for a car or a truck with low revving engine, but means that the crown wheel is sometimes of a large diameter and the half shafts which drive the road wheels have to withstand a high torque.

Where a smaller crown wheel is required (to give greater ground clearance) a secondary gear reduction is arranged in the hub of each drive wheel. If the reduction is 3:1 say, then the axle half shafts will carry one third of the torque - and can be correspondingly lighter. The crown wheel can be smaller, because a deep reduction isn't required, and ground clearance is improved. The hub reduction can be epicyclic or spur geared. In some military applications where extreme ground clearance is required the hub reduction units can provide a wheel offset between the half shafts and the wheel centres, effectively raising the axle above the wheels. This is called a Portal axle.
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Re: Identify This Leyland Bus.

Post by lunchbox »

A bit off topic, but early VW "Kombis" had spur reduction gears at the "wheel" end of the axles. This enabled the heavier "Kombi" body to be driven by the same engine as the VW beetle car. Given no other mods, the Kombi wheels would then have turned in the wrong direction due to the single spur gear reduction. VW solved that by simply turning the diff upside down so that the axles spun backwards!
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