Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

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Tim Williams
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Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Tim Williams »

In the current timetable the T8 is shown as arriving at Central and then traveling via the City Circle to Town Hall:

1. Which platform does it use at Town Hall (when arriving from the Airport via Central).
2. Which service does the T8 become after Town Hall.

Thanks!
stupid_girl
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by stupid_girl »

1. Platform 1
2. T2 towards Homebush/Parramatta/Leppington

Previously, T8 was simply classified as part of T2.
Tim Williams
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Tim Williams »

Thanks for your fast reply!!
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by lunchbox »

How does it get from the City Inner to the Up Shore (Platform 1) at Town Hall?
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by boronia »

The UP Shore at TH is platform 2.

Platform 1 is the UP City Inner.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by lunchbox »

Of course.....Sorry....
Nugget
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Nugget »

stupid_girl wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:05 pm 1. Platform 1
2. T2 towards Homebush/Parramatta/Leppington

Previously, T8 was simply classified as part of T2.
Doesn't it just reverse direction and either run to Revesby or McArthur?
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Glen »

Nugget wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:37 pm
stupid_girl wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:05 pm 1. Platform 1
2. T2 towards Homebush/Parramatta/Leppington

Previously, T8 was simply classified as part of T2.
Doesn't it just reverse direction and either run to Revesby or McArthur?
No because then you'd create conflicts at Flying Junctions with T2 & T3 trains.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by sunnyyan »

Nugget wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:37 pm
stupid_girl wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:05 pm 1. Platform 1
2. T2 towards Homebush/Parramatta/Leppington

Previously, T8 was simply classified as part of T2.
Doesn't it just reverse direction and either run to Revesby or McArthur?
It is not possible for a train coming from the Airport to run around the City Inner and then return to the Airport. The Down Airport is only accessible from the City Outer. This is why trains are diverted via Sydenham when one track of the City Circle is closed. It is also possible to terminate Central P23 and reverse from there, but the long single track section limits it to 4tph.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Nugget »

I take it this "combination" is something that can't be sorted by the project to untangle the lines? The main reason why there are always cascading delays when one line is hit.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Transtopic »

Nugget wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:25 am I take it this "combination" is something that can't be sorted by the project to untangle the lines? The main reason why there are always cascading delays when one line is hit.
Bear in mind that one of the justifications for converting the T3 Bankstown Line to metro and consequently removing it from the City Circle is to avoid conflicting movements on the flying junctions merging with both arms of the CC. The current pattern on the CC Outer (via Town Hall) in the am peak is 14tph T2 + 6tph T3. On the CC Inner (via Museum), it's 10tph T8 via Airport + 4tph T8 via Sydenham + 4tph T3.

It's been announced that after the T3 metro conversion, all T8 services will run via the Airport Line to the CC Inner @ 18tph and will continue through to T2 in the contra-peak direction. Similarly, T2 services will be increased to 18tph via the CC Outer, continuing through to T8. No doubt some of these services in the peak from both branches of the CC will divert to the Macdonaldtown stabling yard via the lower level of the flying junctions and the Illawarra Local, which will effectively be no longer used by T8 via Sydenham services. During the off-peak, I expect that T2 and T8 will run a continuous loop service through the CC.

This arrangement is proposed prior to the ATP/ATO upgrade, which will increase the frequency to 24tph through the CC in both directions. Whether all T8 services at the increased frequency following the upgrade will continue via the Airport Line remains to be seen. If that is the case, then the Illawarra Local between the crossover to the Illawarra Dive at Erskineville/Eveleigh leading to Sydney Terminal and the CC will effectively become redundant. It depends on whether the Airport Line can be upgraded to 24tph. It is also questionable whether T2 can be upgraded to 24tph with the current mixed stopping pattern. It may well be that the intention is to make T2 a single all stops pattern.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by gilberations »

Sydenham express services will continue to operate on T8, and still slip into the CC. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see the service change to all MacArthur Services operate via Sydenham. You can still have an increase in CC frequency as there won’t be conflicting movements.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Transtopic »

gilberations wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:57 am Sydenham express services will continue to operate on T8, and still slip into the CC. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see the service change to all MacArthur Services operate via Sydenham. You can still have an increase in CC frequency as there won’t be conflicting movements.
That's not correct. Constance has explicitly stated that all T8 services will operate via the Airport Line with via Sydenham being discontinued, at least for the time being. Depending on whether the Airport Line can be upgraded to 24tph, the option to reinstate T8 via Sydenham is still open. It seems such a waste if the Illawarra Local via Sydenham isn't utilised. As it stands, it seems that the only trains which will use the Local from Wolli Creek to the Illawarra Dive to Sydney Terminal will be the limited number of Intercity and Regional services.
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gilberations
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by gilberations »

I would also expect to see in the future the possibility of a P5&6 built at Wolli Creek and to have Hurstville to City Circle then onto Ashfield/Homebush/Parramatta. I would also expect to see that Revesby to Central via airport become metro, possibly even as the metro west stage 2
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Linto63 »

Transtopic wrote: Constance has explicitly stated that all T8 services will operate via the Airport Line with via Sydenham being discontinued, at least for the time being.
What Constance says often is not what ends up happening, would take it with a grain of salt.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Transtopic »

gilberations wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:10 am I would also expect to see in the future the possibility of a P5&6 built at Wolli Creek and to have Hurstville to City Circle then onto Ashfield/Homebush/Parramatta. I would also expect to see that Revesby to Central via airport become metro, possibly even as the metro west stage 2
Sorry, no chance. It is proposed that the T4 all stations Hurstville to Bondi Junction services will switch to the Illawarra Main (Eastern track pair) and although possible to run to the City Circle, it's extremely unlikely. The plan is to run all T8 services via the Airport Line to the City Circle, continuing onto T2 and vice versa. Also metro conversion of T8 Revesby to Central via Airport Line extremely unlikely. P5/6 at Wolli Creek on the Illawarra Local also unlikely as it would only be serviced by the limited number of SCO Intercity services which will be diverted to Sydney Terminal. SCO passengers wishing to access the airport stations can change at Hurstville on the same platform to the Cronulla/Waterfall semi-express services which will cross to the existing Wolli Creek station platforms.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Transtopic »

Linto63 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:37 pm
Transtopic wrote: Constance has explicitly stated that all T8 services will operate via the Airport Line with via Sydenham being discontinued, at least for the time being.
What Constance says often is not what ends up happening, would take it with a grain of salt.
It's the official operational pattern proposed by TfNSW, not just Constance's musings. The existing T8 services in the morning peak via the Airport Line @ 10tph will be complemented by diverting the current 4tph T8 via Sydenham services and increasing services by 2tph each from Campbelltown and Revesby to bring it up to a total of 18tph through the City Circle Inner. For at least the time being, until possibly the ATP/ATO upgrade, there will be no T8 via Sydenham services after the Bankstown Line metro conversion.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by jaseee »

The T8 services via Sydenham aren't really "express" anymore, given the airport trains that go express from Holsworthy to Wolli Ck take exactly the same amount of time to travel to Central (from Glenfield). As long as those faster services remain post-2024, there's not really any loss of time going via the Airport.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Transtopic wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:20 am Sorry, no chance. It is proposed that the T4 all stations Hurstville to Bondi Junction services will switch to the Illawarra Main (Eastern track pair) and although possible to run to the City Circle, it's extremely unlikely. The plan is to run all T8 services via the Airport Line to the City Circle, continuing onto T2 and vice versa. Also metro conversion of T8 Revesby to Central via Airport Line extremely unlikely. P5/6 at Wolli Creek on the Illawarra Local also unlikely as it would only be serviced by the limited number of SCO Intercity services which will be diverted to Sydney Terminal. SCO passengers wishing to access the airport stations can change at Hurstville on the same platform to the Cronulla/Waterfall semi-express services which will cross to the existing Wolli Creek station platforms.
With Transport For NSW trying everything to seperate the freight corridor from the suburban rail corridor there will be no platforms 5/6 at wolli Creek until there’s some way they can get Illawarra/SCO freight across to the Southern Highlands line to access the southern Sydney freight line
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by jaseee »

Like finishing the Maldon to Dombarton link... :D
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Transtopic »

jaseee wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:04 am The T8 services via Sydenham aren't really "express" anymore, given the airport trains that go express from Holsworthy to Wolli Ck take exactly the same amount of time to travel to Central (from Glenfield). As long as those faster services remain post-2024, there's not really any loss of time going via the Airport.
Which is one reason why all T8 services are likely to continue to the CC via the Airport Line if it can be upgraded to 24tph with ATP/ATO. It would certainly simplify operations on the CC with a seamless continuous link with T2, avoiding the flying junctions except in the case of emergency breakdowns and weekend track maintenance.

If that's the case, then it opens up the opportunity to run direct SHL services to Sydney Terminal via Sydenham, including the current direct Goulburn service, using the new hybrid short-haul regional trains. As I've said before, the Illawarra Local between Wolli Creek Junction and the Illawarra Dive to ST would virtually become an exclusive track for Intercity and Regional services. The Illawarra Local and Main should now really switch designations.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by boronia »

Transtopic wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:45 pm The Illawarra Local and Main should now really switch designations.
Same could be said for the Western Line between Parra and St Marys.
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by Transtopic »

boronia wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:45 pm
Transtopic wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:45 pm The Illawarra Local and Main should now really switch designations.
Same could be said for the Western Line between Parra and St Marys.
Yes, it's always intrigued me why the Western Suburban after Granville switches to the Western Main and the Main switches to the Suburban. Prior to the Westmead underpass, the Main was the Northern track pair and the Suburban the southern track pair. After the underpass was constructed, to the best of my recollection, the centre track pair was designated the Main and the outer track pair the Suburban or Relief, but subsequently switched.

It may have had something to do with earlier long term planning for sextuplication of the Western Line corridor from Homebush to Granville, where the existing Suburban was proposed to be disconnected from the line west of Granville Junction and run directly on the Old South Line to Merrylands. The existing Main was then proposed to be slewed to the Suburban west of Granville and a new track pair connected in parallel with the previous Main. The attached diagram may give some clues to what was intended.

https://i.imgur.com/ncvg9dg.png
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by gilberations »

Western line is because of the original track placements, when it was 2 tracks
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Re: Sydney Rail T8 from the South via Airports to the City

Post by boronia »

Where it is/was two tracks, they are the Main West. The extra tracks normally used by suburban services were added on the outside of these, but the original tracks were renamed.
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