December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

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December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by J_Busworth »

https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/nor ... provements

There will be changes to bus services across STA Region 8 from December (no specific date at this point). These include;

A new frequent network of routes operating every 10 minutes across the day, seven days a week are:
B1 - Mona Vale to City (existing B-line)
Route 100 - Mosman to City
Route 144 - Manly to Chatswood via St Leonards
Route 160X - Dee Why to Chatswood via Frenchs Forest (limited stops)
Route 199 - Palm Beach to Manly via Mona Vale and Dee Why

There will also be a significant reduction of duplication in service. A number of Northern Beaches services truncated to operate to Warringah Mall instead of Manly or Wynyard, with passengers required to change buses. Similarly, a number of Lower North Shore routes will be truncated to act as feeders to the 100.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was the final network that the privates are being given to bid on for Region 8, given they are quite major changes and the process of tendering is already underway.

It is also notable that references to potential routes 10 and 14 are made in numerous places throughout the list of changes, which suggests that 100 and 144 were last minute changes.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by ay7744 »

J_Busworth wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:46 am https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/nor ... provements

There will be changes to bus services across STA Region 8 from December (no specific date at this point). These include;

A new frequent network of routes operating every 10 minutes across the day, seven days a week are:
B1 - Mona Vale to City (existing B-line)
Route 100 - Mosman to City
Route 144 - Manly to Chatswood via St Leonards
Route 160X - Dee Why to Chatswood via Frenchs Forest (limited stops)
Route 199 - Palm Beach to Manly via Mona Vale and Dee Why

There will also be a significant reduction of duplication in service. A number of Northern Beaches services truncated to operate to Warringah Mall instead of Manly or Wynyard, with passengers required to change buses. Similarly, a number of Lower North Shore routes will be truncated to act as feeders to the 100.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was the final network that the privates are being given to bid on for Region 8, given they are quite major changes and the process of tendering is already underway.

It is also notable that references to potential routes 10 and 14 are made in numerous places throughout the list of changes, which suggests that 100 and 144 were last minute changes.
The changes will come in effect from Sunday December 20.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by stupid_girl »

430 will no longer cross the bridge.
Another cross city route is gone.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

stupid_girl wrote:430 will no longer cross the bridge.
Another cross city route is gone.
With the rubbish traffic that there is at Park St, not a bad choice. Cross city services work based on the assumption traffic times are reliable.



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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

I'm surprised that the 246 hasn't been amalgamated with Route 100. Essentially 246 is just a peak hour short working of the 100 at both ends, Wynyard to Spit Jn.



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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by Richard290 »

Will be keen to see the new network map once it's released - the changes around introduction of the B-Line in late 2017 was a good attempt at cleaning up the region's complicated network.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by DABOIKOOLKID »

What is going to happen with the 135 bus stops on Fairlight st and Hilltop Cres? as it only mentions the 161 which I assume terminates at Manly Wharf.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by stupid_girl »

swtt wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:31 pm
stupid_girl wrote:430 will no longer cross the bridge.
Another cross city route is gone.
With the rubbish traffic that there is at Park St, not a bad choice. Cross city services work based on the assumption traffic times are reliable.



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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by marcnut1996 »

I can imagine buses on route 100 be covered up with some special Taronga Zoo livery to inform tourists (post-COVID) that that is a bus to Taronga Zoo. Somehwat similar to the bendies on 333.

I have also noticed that they are removing as many 2xx routes from the Northern Beaches and Mosman area, leaving it with mostly 1xx routes.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by 385BUZ »

marcnut1996 wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:49 pm I can imagine buses on route 100 be covered up with some special Taronga Zoo livery to inform tourists (post-COVID) that that is a bus to Taronga Zoo. Somehwat similar to the bendies on 333.

I have also noticed that they are removing as many 2xx routes from the Northern Beaches and Mosman area, leaving it with mostly 1xx routes.
Hmm 🤔, nice theory... I’ve already pictured it in my mind - (Like Bondi 333 but in forest green and with a bunch of animals on it 😂)

What depot runs the 100 anyway though?
Last edited by 385BUZ on Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by Cazza »

Most likely North Sydney
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by 385BUZ »

Really? Thought it might have been Willoughby, due to the absence of artics (that usually run the route) at North Sydney
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by marcnut1996 »

As 100 starts with 1xx, it is probably a Region 8 service, so I would say North Sydney or Brookvale.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by Cazza »

385BUZ wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:25 pm Really? Thought it might have been Willoughby, due to the absence of artics (that usually run the route) at North Sydney
The M30 and then 430 were run out of a southside depot (mainly Tempe I believe). Don't quote me though, I'm not really all over the Sydney depots and allocated fleet/routes
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by 385BUZ »

marcnut1996 wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:37 pm As 100 starts with 1xx, it is probably a Region 8 service, so I would say North Sydney or Brookvale.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by DABOIKOOLKID »

I am interested to see whether they keep the school extensions/diversions on the 132 (will be 172X) to St Lukes Dee Why and Mackellar Girls HS that are currently found on the 7:27am and 7:57am services respectively (from Seaforth towards Warringah Mall).
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by J_Busworth »

It is my understanding that all the routes listed in the proposed network as the routes deemed to be Region 8 routes for privatisation purposes. Anything not listed would be deemed to be Region 7.

North Sydney will operate the 100, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the TSA artics currently attached to the 430 make a move to North Sydney. It’s no secret TSA hates their artics and wants to get rid of them - this is the perfect opportunity!
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by pgt »

Wonder how long before people confuse the "144" and "114" especially as the current-day 144 goes where the 114 will be going (ie. RNS Hospital).

Having the B1 running all night does make me wonder why they kept the "via North Sydney" buses (151/188/the odd 247) overnight and early morning until now - never seemed to make much sense to me but can only think that was a hold-over from pre-freeway days (much like the 257 is from the days of the tram).
Cazza wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:40 pm The M30 and then 430 were run out of a southside depot (mainly Tempe I believe). Don't quote me though, I'm not really all over the Sydney depots and allocated fleet/routes
Being one of the Transit Systems routes, mostly Tempe buses but some Leichhardt buses I have also seen on the 430.
Well that's one less Transit Systems R6 bus route crossing the bridge now.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by DABOIKOOLKID »

Well... the new 144N does appear to be running as the replacement for the North Sydney part of the 151/188/odd 247.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by rogf24 »

Does 144N start from North Sydney station? Would at least be helpful if it did.
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by Linto63 »

J_Busworth wrote: It’s no secret TSA hates their artics and wants to get rid of them - this is the perfect opportunity!
Noticed last weekend with large crowds predicted at beaches, State Transit was doing the right thing by rostering artics on its services that served beaches, but Transit Systems persisted with its policy of keeping its locked up on weekends. Is their dislike of artics a problem with the buses themselves, or the extra operating costs incurred?
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by DABOIKOOLKID »

rogf24 wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:02 am Does 144N start from North Sydney station? Would at least be helpful if it did.
The announcement doesn't specifically mention where it starts but North Sydney Station would be my assumption. And also, what is going to happen to the special Sunday 169 service to the Frenchs Forest Bushland Cemetery?
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by swtt »

Linto63 wrote:
J_Busworth wrote: It’s no secret TSA hates their artics and wants to get rid of them - this is the perfect opportunity!
Noticed last weekend with large crowds predicted at beaches, State Transit was doing the right thing by rostering artics on its services that served beaches, but Transit Systems persisted with its policy of keeping its locked up on weekends. Is their dislike of artics a problem with the buses themselves, or the extra operating costs incurred?
Senior Bus Operators who can drive articulated buses are paid more? So maybe TSA reducing costs like this?

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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by pgt »

DABOIKOOLKID wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:19 amAnd also, what is going to happen to the special Sunday 169 service to the Frenchs Forest Bushland Cemetery?
I would think occasional diversions/extensions like this (and a few others mentioned here) come down to patronage of said extension on that specific route, and where the passengers are coming from.
In the case of Frenchs Forest Cemetery, if there was next to no patronage, keeping in mind the [Forest] 281/282 also serves the cemetery stop (plus 141 and 271 at the other end), one might have to change buses to get there (*).
On the other hand, if the patronage is still there, they may extend one of the "166" services that will be replacing the 136 [Manly to Forestway] to cover that (for example).

A bit like how I've just realised there will be no direct service from Chatswood to Royal North Shore Hospital any more - those who do that trip from Chatswood will now have to get off the bus on the Pacific Highway and walk the (approximately) 200m to the hospital, but this makes the 144 route more efficient now.

(*) Anybody remember the old 409 from Hurlstone Park to Rookwood Cemetery? While not a route extension, I believe they found that very few people were going from Hurlstone Park all the way to Rookwood, so they split the route up for efficiency - anybody wanting to go from Hurlstone Park to Rookwood now would have to change buses at Burwood
(My dad actually knew somebody some years ago who used to travel on the 409 from Hurlstone Park regularly to visit the cemetery).
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Re: December Bus Changes - Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore

Post by tonyp »

J_Busworth wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:18 pm North Sydney will operate the 100, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the TSA artics currently attached to the 430 make a move to North Sydney. It’s no secret TSA hates their artics and wants to get rid of them - this is the perfect opportunity!
What evidence is there that they hate their artics? They were handed about 1/3 of the Sydney artic fleet, about 70 buses. DId they want them or were they forced on them? I remember a discussion here some time back that operators had to have prior written permission from TfNSW to take artics out on a run, especially on weekends when that was typically refused. Perhaps that's the reason they're in the depot? If STA was able to take artics out to handle beach crowds, that suggests that permission may be given in certain circumstances (apart from being a tacit admission of the need for artics!).

Although typically senior, experienced drivers are the ones who drive artics, I don't know that driver wages would have much to do with it. To the contrary, an artic may save the wages of one driver, as the bus will typically do the work of two rigids. In a situation like back-up for beach crowds, it may mean, say, rostering only two artics instead of four rigids. Nowra Coaches purchases artics specifically for this reason with a very busy charter and school traffic. They can use one bus and one driver where otherwise two buses and two drivers would be needed. In the brave new one-size-fits-all, artic-free world that TfNSW anticipates, we can look forward to a rise in costs and fall in productivity as many more buses and drivers are required to move heavy patronage. I'm sure that TSA - as a private company like Nowra Coaches - in seeking cost-savings would be very aware of these issues.
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