Ferry Observations 2020

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Swift
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Swift »

If they're prepared to subsidise that woeful 265 bus service that hardly a soul uses between peaks, they should prop this far more worthwhile service.
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Linto63
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Linto63 »

Of course you are aware that if TfNSW didn't subsidise them, most off-peak bus services wouldn't be viable? Saw a route 265 service at Crows Nest during the week with 6 passengers on board, quite busy for a service that that supposedly hardly a soul uses.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

Glen wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:33 pm Anyone planning a relaxing afternoon outing on a round trip ride to farewell the service should keep in mind that (I think) it is already on the (even more) limited 'school holiday' timetable.................... so you might need to do some walking at one end.

https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 200101.pdf

Sorry @boronia
Bugger, looks like the school has already started holidays.

But I can catch the 17,25 service to HH, then a bus to Woolwich and back on the F8.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Glen »

boronia wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:08 pm
Bugger, looks like the school has already started holidays.

But I can catch the 17,25 service to HH, then a bus to Woolwich and back on the F8.
and/or do the sunset round trip on the 19:10 ?
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by gilberations »

Lane Cove Ferry to stop operating. Does anybody know if this will become a Sydney ferries service in the near future? Was the demand that low? Could demand have been increased if services increased?

https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/cap ... s#homepage
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

There are already several posts about this.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

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Living in the Shire.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Aurora »

gilberations wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:12 am Lane Cove Ferry to stop operating. Does anybody know if this will become a Sydney ferries service in the near future? Was the demand that low? Could demand have been increased if services increased?

https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/cap ... s#homepage
Transport already said no to continue the subsidy, so would doubt it.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by jpp42 »

Linto63 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:46 pm Service commenced in 1950 by Rosman after Sydney Ferries withdrew its services. Rosman operated until it ceased in April 1991 due to declining patronage. Matilda had restarted it by the late-1990s with River Rocket catamarans (not the current NQEA built vessels), with it being included in the sale of the the business to Captain Cook in 2005.
Which vessels were you referring to specifically? Captain Cook has mostly still been running this service with the 24m catamarans "Alice," "Megan" or "Jilian" which they refer to as "Executive Rockets" (and these have been used since at least the late 2000's when I first started taking this service). https://www.captaincook.com.au/sydney-h ... e-rockets/ . I am not quite certain if all three of these are still in service, but as far as I know the newer Elizabeth Cook class is not typically used the Lane Cove service, though I suppose it could be if required. This is just based on casual review of Marine Traffic AIS records though, I don't have specific information.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Fleet Lists »

https://www.captaincook.com.au/covid-19/
The Captain Cook Hop on/Hop Off services will resume on 19 December at the start of the school holidays - the day after the Lane Cove service finishes.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Linto63 »

jpp42 wrote: Which vessels were you referring to specifically?
The vessels used in the late 90s were these fairly simpil5stic all enclosed catamarans named Rocket I - Rocket III.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by covo95 »

The govt is now considering retaining a second manly ferry “the narrabeen” with a decision to be made by Xmas.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sec ... 56lpe.html

Transport Minister Andrew Constance has indicated the government will keep a second Freshwater ferry in service on Sydney Harbour, less than a month after announcing all but one of the world-renowned vessels would be removed from service.

The NSW government confirmed two weeks ago it would maintain just one of the Freshwater ferries and retire the remaining fleet, but Mr Constance said on Tuesday that he was now “open-minded” about retaining a second vessel.

A Freshwater ferry passes the Sydney Opera House.
Earlier on Tuesday, Liberal member for Manly James Griffin said the plan last month to retire all but one of the four Freshwater ferries fell short.

Mr Griffin, who praised the decision last month to maintain just one of the Freshwaters, said the government should instead consider maintaining two of the Freshwaters.
“The bottom line is that we deserve more than one Freshwater ferry,” he said.

Transport Minister Andrew Constance with Manly MP James Griffin.
“It boils down to their local member wanting to fight for them, and if that means going against Transport for NSW then so be it.”

Mr Constance confirmed that the Narrabeen was the extra Freshwater ferry that the government was considering keeping in service because its engine needed replacement.

The government is considering saving the Narrabeen ferry.
“We are looking at how we achieve it. It’s striking a balance between commuter needs and those on the weekends,” he said.

Mr Constance said a decision would be made before Christmas on whether a second ferry was kept in the government-owned fleet.

Mr Constance previously pledged to keep one of the Freshwater ferries operating on weekends and public holidays, given the fleet’s historic significance. A Transport for NSW spokesperson on Tuesday confirmed that saved Freshwater vessel would be in operation until "at least 2023".

The Freshwaters will be replaced with smaller, faster Emerald-class ferries, which will run every 20 minutes between Circular Quay and Manly on weekdays, while one of the Freshwaters may be sunk off the city’s northern beaches.

Mr Griffin’s comments came as two new Chinese built Emerald-class ferries, and six new Indonesian built Riverclass ferries arrived in the Port of Newcastle on Tuesday.

The Emerald-class ferries will be towed to Port Macquarie where they will undergo testing and a final fit-out, which includes installing external seating sourced from Western Australia.

Concerns have been raised over the capacity for the Emerald-class to handle rough conditions in the harbour.

A Transport for NSW spokesman said that it would cost between $3-5 million to dock a Freshwater-class ferry every five years for maintenance.

“This decision was about balancing the needs of customers and NSW taxpayers while acknowledging the community’s strong attachment to the Freshwater class ferries,” the spokesman said.

Six Emerald-class vessels are already operating on Sydney Harbour while three new vessels, which are due to arrive soon from China, have strengthened hulls that will allow them to handle swells of up to 4.5 metres.


Graeme Taylor, from community group Action for Public Transport, said it made more economic sense for the government to keep two of the Freshwaters.

“Two makes infinitely more sense than one,” Mr Taylor said, referencing the cost of maintaining just one crew trained on a single Freshwater.

“If you run two on the weekend every 45 minutes, that’s something resembling that people can use, every 90 minutes is too infrequent.”
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by tonyp »

I think it's actually a subtle process of letting the people vote with their feet. If I were a commuter I'd be using the Emeralds because the trip is quicker and more frequent, as I would choose the quicker, more frequent service on any mode. They may then find that the Freshwaters are running almost empty during the week. Then if you get enough tourists and other weekend users doing the same, the announcement can follow that people have abandoned the Freshwaters and they can be withdrawn.

Why would you re-engine a ferry that's on the cusp of withdrawal though?
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Swift »

I don't understand why they have earmarked the Narrabeen because it needs another engine?
The only reasoning is that the others will become due for one in the middle of being kept on and they will get the most years out of a replacement done now.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

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tonyp wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:27 pm I think it's actually a subtle process of letting the people vote with their feet. If I were a commuter I'd be using the Emeralds because the trip is quicker and more frequent, as I would choose the quicker, more frequent service on any mode. They may then find that the Freshwaters are running almost empty during the week. Then if you get enough tourists and other weekend users doing the same, the announcement can follow that people have abandoned the Freshwaters and they can be withdrawn.
They could expedite this by charging a premium fare on the Freshies to see if people are really attracted to the thrill of riding in them.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Linto63 »

With the Emeralds presumably to have similar performance characteristics to the Incat built vessels used by both Sydney Ferries and Manly Fast Ferries, the speed advantage the latter has will disappear. While only 25% more expensive than the Sydney Ferries service, may well spell the end for MFF.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

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Swift wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:40 pm I don't understand why they have earmarked the Narrabeen because it needs another engine?
The only reasoning is that the others will become due for one in the middle of being kept on and they will get the most years out of a replacement done now.
That was my first thought prior to reading your post. Perhaps the replacement engine had been ordered prior to the decision to withdraw the ferry?
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by tonyp »

I wonder if the class is still running with its original Daihatsu engines?
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Glen »

A bit of history on the Hunters Hill ferry:

https://huntershillmuseum.org.au/the-ferries/

Last service runs Friday 18/12.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by Bus 400 »

Haven't seen this mentioned before. But is there an empty space in your water feature or pool?

Why not pick up the old Woolwich pontoon

https://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-10 ... rf-pontoon

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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by tonyp »

It seems very young to be disposed of already.
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

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Would you believe it???!!!
The Lane Cove ferry by Captain Cook Cruises is NOT being discontinued on Friday 18th December, like it originally was.
Services will now continue into 2021.
https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/fer ... 1#homepage
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by swtt »

Transport Buff wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:24 pm Would you believe it???!!!
The Lane Cove ferry by Captain Cook Cruises is NOT being discontinued on Friday 18th December, like it originally was.
Services will now continue into 2021.
https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/fer ... 1#homepage
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by tonyp »

swtt wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:09 pm
Those who whinge the loudest, wins.
It may not last. A commercial entity won't keep running an unprofitable service forever.

Speaking of loudest whingers:
Second Manly ferry vessel may be saved after community, MP campaign

The Transport Minister has directed his department to investigate how to save a second Freshwater class Manly ferry after a public campaign.
James O’Doherty
December 16, 2020 - 11:19PM
The Daily Telegraph

Manly ferry protest
Manly MP James Griffin has organised a protest against his own government's decision to lease or sell three Freshwater Class ferries.

A second Freshwater Class Manly ferry is set to be saved, after Transport Minister Andrew Constance directed his department to investigate how to keep an additional vessel running beyond next year.

The move comes after pressure from the community, the local Liberal MP, and The Daily Telegraph to keep the iconic Manly ferry on the harbour.

Announcing a “compromise” plan last month to use newer, faster ferries on the Manly route next year, Mr Constance pledged to keep a single Freshwater Class ferry operating for tourists on weekends and public holidays.

The Queenscliff ferry departs Manly Cove. Picture; Bradley Hunter

Mr Constance in November committed to keeping the Collaroy ferry running “forever and a day”.

But now the government looks set to retain a second Freshwater Class ferry.

A transport for NSW spokesman said Mr Constance had “asked” the department “to explore an option of retaining a second Freshwater vessel beyond next year”.

“This is currently being investigated with the operator and we’ll have more to say at the appropriate time,” the spokesman said.

It’s understood logistic issues need to be addressed including how to operate the Freshwater Class vessels alongside the fleet of Emerald Class boats that are set to service commuters as frequently as every 15 minutes.

Minister for Transport and Roads Andrew Constance. Picture: NCA NewsWire / Christian Gilles

Acting Labor Leader Yasmin Catley said all four Freshwater ferries should be saved.

“Andrew Constance is clearly incompetent. Keeping two ferries from four only makes sense if you were determined to scuttle them in the first place,” she said.

“Give the people what they want, preserve all four of our heritage vessels and if we need more ferries, buy them locally instead of importing asbestos riddled junk boats,” Yasmin Catley said.

The Manly ferries are set to be replaced with overseas-built vessels that are currently being completed in Port Macquarie. A number of ferries previously imported from overseas have been plagued with problems.

Manly MP James Griffin – who has been pressuring his own government to keep more than one Manly ferry in operation – welcomed the news a second Freshwater vessel looks set to stay in operation.

“Retaining more than one Freshwater ferry will be welcome news to my community and means the icons of Sydney Harbour will live on well into the future,” he told The Daily Telegraph.
I think, to the contrary, Constance is being very smart, playing a waiting game that will see the Freshwaters go from lack of use anyway, which can be blamed on commuters, not the government. A faster, more frequent trip at the same Opal fares will obliterate any remaining patronage on the big boats that the Fast Ferry hasn't already obliterated and the big boats will be running empty. It's like saying we'll run a couple of double decker sets on the Sydney Metro for old times sake and expecting people to flock to them out of nostalgia, except they'd get in the way and disrupt the entire operation - an effect that the Emerald operation may suffer too as the lumbering Freshwaters hold up the wharf space at either end, causing disruption to the Emerald service. The whole protest thing is just stupid and is particularly disgraceful I think because none of them gives a stuff about the real historic Manly ferry that's dying from being spurned. Which one of these really deserves preservation?

116429337_1677670649063220_9058250089132081205_o.jpg
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boronia
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Re: Ferry Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

Perhaps TfNSW is subsidising the service again. Cancelling the new bus routes certainly indicates they are involved.

I think CCC is restarting its cruises program soon, and they claim these help cover the costs of the services.
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