NSW Railway Observations 2020

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Linto63
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by Linto63 »

boronia wrote:Well Constance "ruled out" privatising the remainder of STA a few months back, didn't he?
Think that may have been a myth put out when the privatisation of the remaining State Transit routes was announced. Can only find references to him having said that on green / union websites, nothing mainstream.
neilrex
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by neilrex »

I tend to regard claims that , for example, junctions must be grade separated, as a scam to get unnecessary stuff built. There are much busier systems around the place without grade separations all over the place.

I waited 14 minutes at Town Hall today for a train to Kings Cross. Don't try and tell me that the Eastern Suburbs line can't handle 8 trains an hour.

What does amaze me, however, is the scheme of terminating trains at Parramatta. That seems to me like a punctuality accident waiting to happen ! Since an extra platform at Parramatta is unfeasible, they should build a turnback siding or an extra platform near Parramatta Park or somewhere near Westmead or Wentworthville.

And half-hourly service from Auburn to Parramatta ????? No wonder the roads are clogged with cars !
jaseee
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by jaseee »

There is a turnback at Parramatta station. They built that before deciding to terminate T2 trains there.
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boronia
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

The only turnback facility at Parramatta is a couple of crossovers between the up and down tracks. There isn't any dedicated track like Lindfield or Gordon.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

neilrex wrote:What does amaze me, however, is the scheme of terminating trains at Parramatta. That seems to me like a punctuality accident waiting to happen ! Since an extra platform at Parramatta is unfeasible, they should build a turnback siding or an extra platform near Parramatta Park or somewhere near Westmead or Wentworthville.

And half-hourly service from Auburn to Parramatta ????? No wonder the roads are clogged with cars !
The issue is timetables and the fact that they now have all T5 services going from platform 3 at Parramatta in both directions
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

Linto63 wrote:
boronia wrote:Well Constance "ruled out" privatising the remainder of STA a few months back, didn't he?
Think that may have been a myth put out when the privatisation of the remaining State Transit routes was announced. Can only find references to him having said that on green / union websites, nothing mainstream.
Those promises were around at the time of the T6 handover.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

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Campbelltown busboy wrote:
neilrex wrote:What does amaze me, however, is the scheme of terminating trains at Parramatta. That seems to me like a punctuality accident waiting to happen ! Since an extra platform at Parramatta is unfeasible, they should build a turnback siding or an extra platform near Parramatta Park or somewhere near Westmead or Wentworthville.

And half-hourly service from Auburn to Parramatta ????? No wonder the roads are clogged with cars !
The issue is timetables and the fact that they now have all T5 services going from platform 3 at Parramatta in both directions
Why is that the issue?
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boronia
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

Campbelltown busboy wrote:
neilrex wrote:What does amaze me, however, is the scheme of terminating trains at Parramatta. That seems to me like a punctuality accident waiting to happen ! Since an extra platform at Parramatta is unfeasible, they should build a turnback siding or an extra platform near Parramatta Park or somewhere near Westmead or Wentworthville.

And half-hourly service from Auburn to Parramatta ????? No wonder the roads are clogged with cars !
The issue is timetables and the fact that they now have all T5 services going from platform 3 at Parramatta in both directions
The T2 terminators are a half hourly service and T5 is also half hourly. Those two tracks are not usually shared with other services.

Not sure why you would need a turnback track with that level of frequency?
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Post by Fleet Lists »

Linto63 wrote:
Constance is being a bit evasive in some of his answers (but then he is a politician), but there appear to be some prats on that committee.
On page 24 of the above document dated 30 August 2019 Constance certainly avoided the question.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Post by Linto63 »

Fleet Lists wrote:On page 24 of the above document dated 30 August 2019 Constance certainly avoided the question.
In response to Are there any plans to privatise the services operating in regions seven, eight and nine?

Constance replied: I am not hiding the fact that after the region six franchise we are obviously having a look at that.

Think this could only have been interpreted as a clear message that privatisation was on the agenda.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by swtt »

neilrex wrote:I tend to regard claims that , for example, junctions must be grade separated, as a scam to get unnecessary stuff built. There are much busier systems around the place without grade separations all over the place.

I waited 14 minutes at Town Hall today for a train to Kings Cross. Don't try and tell me that the Eastern Suburbs line can't handle 8 trains an hour.

What does amaze me, however, is the scheme of terminating trains at Parramatta. That seems to me like a punctuality accident waiting to happen ! Since an extra platform at Parramatta is unfeasible, they should build a turnback siding or an extra platform near Parramatta Park or somewhere near Westmead or Wentworthville.

And half-hourly service from Auburn to Parramatta ????? No wonder the roads are clogged with cars !
Anything can be done so long as the employees are on board and also aren't stupidity/unprofessionalism prone to cause "operational issues" that are self inflicted.

Otherwise, things like weather causing delays, we could do little about. As much as we've tried to weather protect our infrastructure, I think we have some of the most extreme operating environments - trees near rail corridors certainly add to that too.

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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by Transtopic »

neilrex wrote:I tend to regard claims that , for example, junctions must be grade separated, as a scam to get unnecessary stuff built. There are much busier systems around the place without grade separations all over the place.

I waited 14 minutes at Town Hall today for a train to Kings Cross. Don't try and tell me that the Eastern Suburbs line can't handle 8 trains an hour.

What does amaze me, however, is the scheme of terminating trains at Parramatta. That seems to me like a punctuality accident waiting to happen ! Since an extra platform at Parramatta is unfeasible, they should build a turnback siding or an extra platform near Parramatta Park or somewhere near Westmead or Wentworthville.

And half-hourly service from Auburn to Parramatta ????? No wonder the roads are clogged with cars !
I'm not suggesting that all flat junctions should be grade separated, but a few that come to mind which would significantly improve operational efficiency, are the Down Northern Main from the Down Western Main to the Down Northern Suburban (Relief) Line between Strathfield and North Strathfield Junctions, allowing separate parallel running of the Northern Main and Suburban tracks without conflicting movements once quadruplication of the Northern Line is completed (centre Main track pair via the existing flyover to and from Platforms 5 & 6 at Strathfield and outer Suburban track pair via new underpass to and from Platforms 1, 2 & 3); flyover or underpass between Illawarra Local and Main track pairs south of Wolli Creek to allow more efficient merging of all stations and express T4 trains without conflicting movements and even re-aligning the track pairs to allow parallel running of the Up and Down tracks to Hurstville and any extension beyond as well as cross platform interchange, similar to that on the Western, Northern and East Hills quad tracks; flyover or underpass between Western Main and Suburban track pairs at Homebush. There are undoubtedly others worthy of consideration as well.

I'm as amazed as you are with the present inefficient operation of terminating some T2 trains at Parramatta. There are currently only 6tph in each direction (4xT2 & 2xT5) using Platforms 3 & 4 at Parramatta in peak hours, which is a complete waste, when it's capable of handling many more. Platforms 1 & 2 are maxed out at 20tph. However the limiting factor is the lack of further available paths from Parramatta to the CBD.

I've already discussed the need for further track amplification of the Western Line from Parramatta to the CBD on other threads, the details of which I'm not going to go into now (it's not the metro). It would allow the current T2 starters/terminators at Parramatta to be diverted to a new track pair, separate from T2, and extended to and from Blacktown as an all stations service at greater frequency to and from Strathfield/Burwood and then express to and from Redfern. All Emu Plains/Penrith and Richmond Line services could then become semi-express between Blacktown and Parramatta.
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jpp42
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

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As long as we're talking about inefficiency, why does everyone have this assumption that tracks must be amplified in *pairs* all the time? Don't most other systems around the world know about bidirectional running? I know we have that in a few places on the Sydney network on double track, couldn't you do a huge amount more with that on triple track at way less infrastructure cost than always adding things in pairs? I'm pretty sure QR does this quite well on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast line. Yes, I know that trains going one way have to go back the other way, but you do smart things like having them run express on the third track in the peak direction during peak hour, and if they have to return against the peak in order to form another peak service later, they run as a local fitting in with other locals.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

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jpp42 wrote:As long as we're talking about inefficiency, why does everyone have this assumption that tracks must be amplified in *pairs* all the time? Don't most other systems around the world know about bidirectional running? I know we have that in a few places on the Sydney network on double track, couldn't you do a huge amount more with that on triple track at way less infrastructure cost than always adding things in pairs? I'm pretty sure QR does this quite well on the Beenleigh/Gold Coast line. Yes, I know that trains going one way have to go back the other way, but you do smart things like having them run express on the third track in the peak direction during peak hour, and if they have to return against the peak in order to form another peak service later, they run as a local fitting in with other locals.
More so "get it done right in one go" so that you don't have to send in the construction workers and equipment in within 5 years.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by matthewg »

Transtopic wrote: flyover or underpass between Illawarra Local and Main track pairs south of Wolli Creek to allow more efficient merging of all stations and express T4 trains without conflicting movements and even re-aligning the track pairs to allow parallel running of the Up and Down tracks to Hurstville and any extension beyond as well as cross platform interchange, similar to that on the Western, Northern and East Hills quad tracks;
I go through Wolli Creek every (week) day on a local 'stopper' service. A grade-separated crossover wouldn't change things much at all.
I don't recall the last time we were held for a southbound (down) train on the local when heading into the city. We do get held a lot waiting for the up main because we have gotten to the crossover before the train we are supposed to follow into the city, so we get held to allow it to get Wolli Creek station first. Occasionally we have to wait for two trains to go ahead of us.
On the trip home, rarely do we get held at Wolli Creek station waiting for the up main to clear so we can get to the down local.

The traffic flows are quite 'tidal' and the crossover rarely conflicts.

Hurstville to Sutherland is bi-directionally signalled, although they rarely use it. If you operate Mortdale to Sutherland as a single line, the capacity is so low as be of little use resolving peak hour problems. It has been done, but sooner or later you have to start sending trains back.

One weekend where they scheduled single line working, they cut the frequency of the Cronulla trains by half and ran Waterfall-Sutherland as a shuttle.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by TSE_SecretAni »

Heard the rumours that paper timetables will stop from this year.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by Transtopic »

matthewg wrote:I go through Wolli Creek every (week) day on a local 'stopper' service. A grade-separated crossover wouldn't change things much at all.
I don't recall the last time we were held for a southbound (down) train on the local when heading into the city. We do get held a lot waiting for the up main because we have gotten to the crossover before the train we are supposed to follow into the city, so we get held to allow it to get Wolli Creek station first. Occasionally we have to wait for two trains to go ahead of us.
On the trip home, rarely do we get held at Wolli Creek station waiting for the up main to clear so we can get to the down local.

The traffic flows are quite 'tidal' and the crossover rarely conflicts.

Hurstville to Sutherland is bi-directionally signalled, although they rarely use it. If you operate Mortdale to Sutherland as a single line, the capacity is so low as be of little use resolving peak hour problems. It has been done, but sooner or later you have to start sending trains back.

One weekend where they scheduled single line working, they cut the frequency of the Cronulla trains by half and ran Waterfall-Sutherland as a shuttle.
Aren't all Hurstville all stoppers to Bondi Junction now being moved to the Main (eastern track pair) when the new crossover is installed at Hurstville to allow them to terminate at Platform 4 and reverse for the return journey, crossing over to the Up Main track? With the forthcoming introduction of ATO on T4, there will be an increase in capacity to allow greater frequency and I would have thought that it will put more pressure on the existing crossovers at Wolli Creek to allow merging of the all stoppers from Hurstville and semi-express services to Bondi Junction from Cronulla and Waterfall. That junction has always been raised as a bottle-neck going back to the original Christie Report two decades ago and its then recommendation for partial grade separation.

Such a project should also be done in tandem with the proposed new crossover from the Illawarra Local to the Illawarra Main north of Erskineville Junction (to the ESR) to allow South Coast Intercity services direct access to the Illawarra Dive to Sydney Terminal and removing them from the Main tracks through Wolli Creek to Erskineville and the ESR. It's not practicable to run the new 10 car NIF sets on the ESR because of the shorter platforms anyway. This would allow a single all stops operating pattern from Wolli Creek to Bondi Junction for Hurstville, Cronulla and Waterfall services at greater frequency once ATO is introduced. Consequently, T8 services via Sydenham would no longer need to stop at Tempe, St Peters or Erskineville as they would receive a greatly enhanced service on T4. With complete grade separation also introduced and a single operating pattern, it shouldn't matter which train arrives first at the Wolli Creek merge from the Main or Local. Neither should hold the other up if they're out of sequence as appears to currently happen. First in first served.. That shouldn't be too hard to manage with the modern computer based signalling. This is just one further example of how the efficient operation of Sydney Trains and NSW Trainlink could be improved with modest upgrades to existing infrastructure.
Last edited by Transtopic on Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by Linto63 »

Transtopic wrote:Aren't all Hurstville all stoppers to Bondi Junction now being moved to the Main (eastern track pair) when the new crossover is installed at Hurstville to allow them to terminate at Platform 4 and reverse for the return journey, crossing over to the Up Main track?
Yes, Hurstville Crossover Project

Most of the major junctions are already grade separated; Central, Illawarra Junction, Strathfield, Blacktown, Glenfield etc. From my experience, Wolli Creek has never been a major bottle neck, and the window of opportunity to grade separate probably closed when the surrounding land was redeveloped with high rise housing in the last decade.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

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The "AK" testing train was at Hamilton Station this morning, later saw it parked back up at the Broadmeadow Train facility.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

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https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/tra ... s#homepage

Train services resume to Blue Mountains
Thursday 16 January 2020

Limited train services will resume from next week on the Blue Mountains Line between Mount Victoria and Lithgow.

Sydney Trains engineers have been working to rebuild the systems that will allow safe operation of a limited number of freight trains from Monday evening and passenger trains from Tuesday 21 January.

Central West and Western NSW customers also need to be aware that due to the severe extent of the bushfire damage along the corridor, it will take several months to completely rebuild large amounts of infrastructure.

NSW TrainLink and freight services have been suspended since bushfires caused major damage to around 25km of rail corridor between 19 and 23 December 2019.

Sydney Trains’ crews continue to clear the corridor of dangerous obstacles, and are working to replace hundreds of kilometres of communication, electrical and signal wiring. A temporary working system has been developed to allow limited services to resume, but restoring a full service will take some time due to the extent of the damage.

From Tuesday 21 January, the following services will operate; Sydney to Dubbo and return will run Tuesday to Sunday with a replacement coach running on Monday, the Broken Hill to Sydney service will run from Sydney on Monday and return Tuesday.

The first Bathurst Bullet Service will run Monday to Sunday, while the second Bathurst Bullet will be replaced by coach. Some of these services will run on altered timetables.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

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The rail replacement routes being used between Mount Victoria and Bathurst up to 31/1/2020 are
2BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /2bm/012BM
31BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/0131B-M
32BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/0132B-M
6ABM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/016AB-M

But just for this weekend only 31 BM and 6ABM are not operating, replaced by route 6BM which operates all the way to Central https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /6bm/016BM
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

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Fleet Lists wrote:But just for this weekend only 31 BM and 6ABM are not operating, replaced by route 6BM which operates all the way to Central https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /6bm/016BM
I wonder what the logic is in running three coaches within the space of six minutes, all starting from Central and operating the scenic route via Parramatta, Westmead and Penrith?

Assuming that the patronage is weighted towards those travelling from Central, it would seem more logical to operate two coaches from Central running express to Katoomba, plus a third coach commencing from Parramatta to service the pickups in Western Sydney.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by Richard290 »

https://transportnsw.info/events/2020/0 ... y#homepage

For some strange reason, whoever writes the event transport information for events at Parramatta's Bankwest Stadium seems to be under the illusion that you can change from the Metro at Epping in order to take a direct train to Parramatta from there. The proposed rail link was promised 20+ years ago but never delivered, which will confuse rail-oriented passengers who may have a limited understanding of the vast bus network (in this case, route 549 and 550 are your best solutions for this scenario).
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

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Fleet Lists wrote:The rail replacement routes being used between Mount Victoria and Bathurst up to 31/1/2020 are
2BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /2bm/012BM
31BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/0131B-M
32BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/0132B-M
6ABM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/016AB-M

But just for this weekend only 31 BM and 6ABM are not operating, replaced by route 6BM which operates all the way to Central https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /6bm/016BM

so click on that link you have there, and see this:

Booking required Opal card accepted OpalPay available Opal card not accepted

what the heck is that supposed to mean ?? Is booking required for the Bathurst bullet replacement bus ?

On a different page, it says Opal might not be accepted, ask the driver. WTF !
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Re: NSW Railway Observations 2020

Post by neilrex »

Fleet Lists wrote:The rail replacement routes being used between Mount Victoria and Bathurst up to 31/1/2020 are
2BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /2bm/012BM
31BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/0131B-M
32BM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/0132B-M
6ABM https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... bm/016AB-M

But just for this weekend only 31 BM and 6ABM are not operating, replaced by route 6BM which operates all the way to Central https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /6bm/016BM
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