New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

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swtt
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by swtt »

Qantas94Heavy wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:42 am City of Sydney meeting papers have revealed a minor change to the proposed 304 route: https://meetings.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.a ... sebery.pdf
TfNSW proposes to modify route 304 which operates between Rosebery and Circular Quay.
The route will no longer operate to Kimberley Grove via Rosebery Avenue but instead will
travel to Rothschild Avenue at Turruwul Park. Additionally, the bus route will no longer
operate along O'Dea Avenue and Bourke Street, but instead use Gadigal Avenue through to
Potter Street, Waterloo.
And in another note:
TfNSW is introducing articulated buses on route 343, therefore, they propose to extend the
length of the existing bus zones along Elizabeth Street and Dunning Avenue.
Route 304 will now terminate at Turruwul Park. Haven't been there since lockdown but suspect Zetland Ave won't be ready in time. The previous plan was for route 320 to terminate there, so it might continue running to Mascot shops instead.

Also, Bayside Council meeting papers seem show route 420 operating from Burwood to Mascot Station instead of terminating at Domestic Airport: https://infoweb.bayside.nsw.gov.au/Open ... 481_AT.PDF
With the intention to improve public transport connectivity and overall transport integration,
TfNSW in collaboration with Transit Systems and State Transit Authority (STA) respectively
are proposing the following changes to the existing bus zones:

Coward Street near Mascot Station (request by Transit Systems):
  1. Coward Street Eastbound – Mascot Station Stand A – Extend the current ‘Bus Zone’ by
    24m to cater for the 306 terminus Redfern to Mascot via Eastlakes, Rosebery & Green
    Square; and
  2. Coward Street Westbound – Mascot Station Stand B – Extend the current ‘Bus Zone’
    by 24m to cater for 420 terminus Burwood to Mascot via Airport & Rockdale.
I'm guessing that they'll only send every second 350 bus to the airport. Probably with reduced airport travel they've decided it's not worth it to run more buses to the airport.
That's interesting. That'll mean it's the same rubbish frequency for Maroubra Jn to the Airport - every 20 minutes off peak, if the 350 were to operate at a minimum 10 min all day frequency.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Swift »

Opportunist downgrading of OUR bus services by the dictators who get chauffeured everywhere.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by grog »

Surely the 350 showing as a ‘Frequent’ on the map means 10 minute headway end to end?

There is a separate dotted version listed as ‘Frequent extension’ that says it operates at least every 20 minutes, and they don’t use this on the 350.

https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... %20map.pdf

(Unless things have changed since the time or the draft proposal - but I would doubt it)
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by J_Busworth »

I would be very surprised if the 350 did not run with a 10 minute frequency from end to end. I would think that keeping the 420 through to Mascot Station is a good idea, hopefully other good modifications have been made.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

What are the loadings like between Eastgardens and the airport?

Is the extension of the 420 for the benefit of workers coming from the west, or for the benefit of gate-fee avoiders? Seems strange that TfNSW would deliberately deny itself some lucrative income LOL
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swtt
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by swtt »

boronia wrote:What are the loadings like between Eastgardens and the airport?

Is the extension of the 420 for the benefit of workers coming from the west, or for the benefit of gate-fee avoiders? Seems strange that TfNSW would deliberately deny itself some lucrative income LOL
I think the industrial area west of Mascot Station would be well served with workers travelling from east of the airport (Route 420).

To cut the 420 short at Domestic Terminal would be asking those workers to change for a bus just for the very last mile.

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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by pylelo »

Just postulating, when does everyone think these changes will be announced?
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by 1whoknows »

Perhaps along with or soon after the franchising announcement?
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by swtt »

I certainly hope it's announced in a prominent location unlike the draft network, which was announced on mysydney.nsw.gov.au!
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Nat »

swtt wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:50 am I certainly hope it's announced in a prominent location unlike the draft network, which was announced on mysydney.nsw.gov.au!
Don't be silly. It will be buried on an obscure site until one turns up at a bus stop to wait 30 minutes for an over full bus to arrive.....
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

I mean, I hope we know soon. These will be some very significant changes and assuming “by the end of 2021” is still the target, the more notice the better. Have begun rereading the draft plan again, will be interesting to see ultimately how much the final determination differs from the draft
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Linto63 »

Word is that it's implementation has been pushed out until 2022, so as not to become an issue in the lead up to the December local elections. While regions 7 and 8 were rearranged prior to those regions being put out to tender, appears not to be the case with region 9 with the preferred tenderer reportedly having already been selected.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by boronia »

swtt wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:50 am I certainly hope it's announced in a prominent location unlike the draft network, which was announced on mysydney.nsw.gov.au!
Well it certainly got plenty of subsequent prominence through other social media.

I'm certain that the headlining announcement of "the following bus routes will be cancelled" did nothing to endear local customers, who didn't bother to read further.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by busbum »

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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Linto63 »

Changes will take effect from 5 December 2021, main change is that route 373 Coogee Beach - Circular Quay will be retained.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Qantas94Heavy »

A fair bit to unpack in terms of changes between the draft and final plan. This is what I've noticed so far:
  • 373 reinstated, will operate as per existing route to Museum Station (looping via Liverpool, Elizabeth, Goulburn, Wentworth Ave)
  • 370 returns to Coogee Bay Road, terminates at Glebe Point instead of Sydney Uni
  • 469 terminates at Glebe (loop around Ross, St Johns, Glebe Point, Wigram Rd) instead of Sydney Uni
  • 307 terminates at Mascot Station instead of proposed extension to Marrickville Metro :(
  • 350 terminates at Domestic instead of International Airport, now runs via existing 353 route between Maroubra Jn and Coogee
  • 420 terminates at Mascot Station instead of Domestic Airport
  • 343 no longer proposed to run via Green Square Station (Botany Rd), reverting to existing route via Elizabeth St :!:
  • 392 runs via O'Dea Ave and Bourke St instead of Gadigal Ave and Potter St
  • 348 terminates at Prince of Wales Hospital (via Arthur, Belmore, Avoca, Barker St) instead of Coogee via Coogee Bay Rd
  • 392X to have an additional stop at UNSW (to allow interchange with 390X)
Minor changes:
  • 303 returns to existing route direct along Maloney St, Eastlakes
  • 306 runs via Florence St, Eastlakes (previously proposed for 303), runs via Botany Rd and Coward St instead of King St (west)
  • 399 terminates in a loop around Day Ave, Houston Rd, Strachan St instead of High St, UNSW
  • 375 terminates at Cowper St, Randwick (was proposed 358 terminus) instead of High St
  • 358 terminates at Randwick (loop around Avoca, Belmore, Arthur, Clara, High, Botany, Barker St)
  • 320 to terminate at Green Square Station (once construction completed) instead of Turruwul Park (Rothschild Ave)
  • 304/320 will temporarily terminate at Joynton Ave & Hansard St until construction completed
  • 350N (all stops) replaced by 350 (limited stops), overnight services terminate at Mascot Station instead of International Airport
  • 420N (all stops) replaced by 420 (limited stops) overnight
  • 313 to continue running along Carrington Rd instead of proposed change to Albion St
  • 311/339/374 to terminate at Eddy Ave instead of Railway Square
  • 392 to reinstate a small number of weekday services running via Mirrabooka Cres (5 per day in each direction)
  • 320 to use Castlereagh St southbound between Bathurst St and Goulburn St (turns left at Goulburn St instead of Bathurst St)
Other changes outside the main South East bus routes:
  • 355 now runs direct from Wyndham/Botany to Raglan St (no longer via Cope or George St)
  • 389 to run via Park St eastbound, instead of King St (matching the westbound trip)
  • 362 extension to run via Old South Head Rd and Dover Rd instead of O'Sullivan Road
Already implied in the draft plan but wasn't explicit before:
  • All city inner west buses (including 'express' buses) will run via Elizabeth St in both directions (instead of Castlereagh St southbound)
Last edited by Qantas94Heavy on Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:43 pm, edited 44 times in total.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by tonyp »

Popular bus route retained after outcry over eastern suburbs bus overhaul
By Matt O'Sullivan
November 1, 2021 — 1.02pm

The state government has decided to retain a popular bus route from Sydney’s southeast and slightly alter plans for a shake-up of other services after an outcry from local communities.

After receiving more than 8800 submissions to its overhaul of eastern suburbs public transport, the government has opted to retain the popular route 373 bus route from Coogee and Randwick to the CBD via Taylor Square, which will operate every 10 minutes during the day.
The government’s changes to bus services in Sydney’s southeast has met stiff opposition from residents.

The government’s changes to bus services in Sydney’s southeast has met stiff opposition from residents.

Under the plans announced in May, the 373 from Coogee to Circular Quay was one of 20 bus routes to be axed, while another 23 were to be modified and 11 added.

Apart from keeping the 373, the government has also modified its original plans for about a dozen services, many of which involve slight changes to the routes buses will take or frequency.

The 303 route from Redfern to Sans Souci, for example, will now operate via Maloney Street, instead of via Florence Avenue and George Street, to maintain a more direct route path between Mascot and the University of NSW.

Timetables for five routes – including the 348, 356 and 375 – have also been adjusted to improve capacity on buses for school students, and provide more direct services to and from schools.

Transport Minister Rob Stokes said the government was also keeping express bus routes to and from the CBD, with direct city access during weekday peaks. “We’ll also see an improvement in frequency for these routes,” he said.

Mr Stokes said the government had engaged with more than 90 local schools during community consultation because some students took regular route services that had changed.

“We will re-engage with schools to help them understand and communicate relevant changes to their communities,” he said.

But Rail, Tram and Bus Union division secretary David Babineau said the government was only addressing as many concerns as it had been forced to in order “to tick boxes”.

“We are still getting service reductions and job losses,” he said.

Residents in the southeast protested against the changes to bus services at a rally in Randwick in May, while thousands have signed two separate petitions to save routes.

The overhaul will funnel more people onto the $3.1 billion light rail line from the CBD to Kingsford and Randwick, and involve more interchanges for people living in the southeast.

Transport for NSW chief operations officer Howard Collins said the changes offered a “more sustainable” public transport network, which would help support future population growth in areas such as Green Square in the city’s inner south.

“We have created an extra 10 all-day frequent bus routes, similar to the existing Bondi Link 333, to run at a high-frequency, so customers have more choice around when they travel,” he said.

The changes to bus routes and timetables for Sydney’s southeast will take place on December 5.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by pylelo »

A win for the citizens of Glebe Pt with a 370 passing by every 10 minutes..

Jokes aside, probably a pragmatic location to terminate the truncated and higher frequency 370 :D
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by stupid_girl »

https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... %20map.pdf
Will these routes be transferred from Region 6 to Region 9?
305,308,320,348,389,440

Together with the truncation of 418 and 420, Transit Systems may be losing a large chunk of service kilometres.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by thunderbird »

Looks like the proposal to extend 307 to Marrickville Metro is quietly dumped?
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Fleet Lists »

https://transportnsw.info/news/2021/bus ... r#homepage For all the finer detail of changes to routes as they are today to what they will be as from 5/12/2021.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

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Living in the Shire.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

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stupid_girl wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:39 pm https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... %20map.pdf
Will these routes be transferred from Region 6 to Region 9?
305,308,320,348,389,440

Together with the truncation of 418 and 420, Transit Systems may be losing a large chunk of service kilometres.
Here is a link to large PDF which shows all timetables for regions 6 and 9 as from 5/12/2021 and I think alll routes you ask about still show as Transit Systems
https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... nd%209.pdf
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by hornetfig »

Mostly good. I don't think 373 as a through service is a great idea because it discourages interchange, and the city terminus pickup missing Hyde Park is unfortunate.

But the Bondi Junction - Eastgardens situation is still bad. Maybe if 392 and 390X both used the tram interchange at Kingsford it would be acceptable, because the Maroubra Junction interchange situation is awful.
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Re: New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

Post by Richard290 »

Qantas94Heavy wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:11 pm A fair bit to unpack in terms of changes between the draft and final plan. This is what I've noticed so far:
  • 373 reinstated, will operate as per existing route to Museum Station (looping via Liverpool, Elizabeth, Goulburn, Wentworth Ave)
  • 370 returns to Coogee Bay Road, terminates at Glebe Point instead of Sydney Uni
  • 469 now terminates at Glebe in a loop around Ross, St Johns, Glebe Point, Wigram Rd (instead of Sydney Uni)
  • 307 terminates at Mascot Station instead of proposed extension to Marrickville Metro :(
  • 350 terminates at Domestic instead of International Airport, now runs via existing 353 route between Maroubra Jn and Coogee
  • 350N replaced by 350, overnight services terminate at Mascot Station instead of International Airport
  • 420 terminates at Mascot Station instead of Domestic Airport
  • 303 and 306 swap routes in Eastlakes (303 returns to existing route direct along Maloney St)
  • 399 terminates in a loop around Day Ave, Houston Rd, Strachan St instead of High St, UNSW
  • 375 now terminates at Cowper St, Randwick instead of High St (previously proposed 358 terminus)
  • 358 now terminates at Randwick in a loop around Avoca, Belmore, Arthur, Clara, High, Botany, Barker St
  • 348 now terminates at Prince of Wales Hospital (instead of Coogee via Coogee Bay Rd), running via High, Clara, Arthur, Belmore, Avoca, Barker St
  • 320 to terminate at Green Square station instead of Turruwul Park (Rothschild Ave), temporary terminus Joynton Ave & Hansard St until construction completed
  • 313 to continue running along Carrington Rd instead of proposed change to Albion St
  • 392 to reinstate a small number of weekday services running via Mirrabooka Cres (5 per day in each direction)
Other changes outside the main South East bus routes:
  • 311 to terminate at Eddy Ave instead of Railway Square
  • 355 now runs direct from Wyndham/Botany to Raglan St (no longer via Cope or George St)
  • 389 to run via Park St eastbound, instead of King St (matching the westbound trip)
Already implied in the draft plan but wasn't explicit before:
  • All city inner west buses will run via Elizabeth St in both directions (instead of Castlereagh St southbound)
On the transportnsw.info page for the changes, any mention of the rerouting of route 348 in the Zetland/Green Square area is strangely omitted from the description of changes.
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