New bus network arising from CSELR (L2/L3) opening

[moa999]

So big change to the number of buses on Oxford St with most of the cancelled routes (and the 396 is only seemingly every 10min)
Peak Express buses remain northbound using ED then back southbound on Albion St.

Couldn't find any suggestion they are going to use the Moore Park bus stop on a regular basis either (despite the big expense in building a large facility).
I'd have though that might make sense to some who work nearer Elizabeth St being able to transfer between bus and light rail.

Personally disappointed that the EIS plan of a new cross route in the 374 Edgecliff-KingsCross-MoorePark-Coogee hasn't been retained in some form.

[Cazza]

Long live the 342!

In all seriousness, I'm not exactly sure some of these changes are ideal. Just some initial thoughts off first observation:
- I feel the 350 would be better off running via Beauchamp Rd and Maroubra Beach (and terminate at Eastgardens, rather than the Airport). I'm not a fan of the 400 being removed and feel it would be best to retain it. The 390X should keep running into the City, because having the 396 as the only full-time service between the eastern suburbs and Oxford St/Museum needs some serious explanation.
- The number of CBD express services retained is pretty outrageous. The 373X, 374X (with a modified 339X and 377X in this area to expand their coverage) and 397X (and potentially even the 396X too with a minor adjustment to the 377X around Maroubra Beach) can all go, along with the 397. How does the 397 even stay alive? The 375 (or hopefully 350) will provide a frequent, direct link to Eastgardens from South Maroubra, and a service in the South Sydney High area is moreso token rather than anything else.
- The 320 could more than likely go, given it is sandwiched between 3 frequent routes (the 304, 309 and 343 respectively).
- Big missed opportunity not to have the 358 be a frequent service and be extended to Bondi Junction. It would provide a key link between the Illawarra Line (and soon to be Metro) at Sydenham Station, T8 at Mascot and Kingsford, UNSW, Randwick and onto Bondi Junction. On that, the 303 should terminate at Randwick, not the hospital. Too much of a key interchange and destination to be terminating a stones throw (but considerable walk) away.
- I don't think terminating the 370 at UoS is ideal. Send it up to Glebe Point (and potentially remove the 431), so it at least services Broadway and something beyond.

To all those people who have absolutely no idea in Transport planning and are complaining about these "cuts", yes, some of the changes don't seem great (i.e. lack of frequent service between Kingsford and Oxford St, still a lot of services that could be further condensed for consistency and legibility etc.), however, the Government is taking the Eastern Suburbs bus network in the right direction, it just isn't quite there yet. This is where constructive community feedback plays a huge role in determining the outcomes of the network, rather than screaming at the Libs saying "I'm losing my service" and "you're forcing me onto slow, infrequent services". To both, I say no. You may lose a direct, infrequent service, meaning you'll have to change now, but I'd much prefer the replacement frequent service you will now get.

[Swift]

Asking Sydney people from the Eastern edge of the metropolis (as well as lower north shore people) to think whole of picture about things is less useful than banging your head. The entitlement is off the chain and clouds their judgment like a squirt from an octopus.
Just ask any reasonably seasoned ridehare driver -at least according to Sydney Uber forums.

[Jurassic_Joke]

Getting rid of the 400 and replacing it with something that will go via Maroubra and Coogee is an awful idea. What’s the rationale behind it?

[Swift]

And the dumdums running transport will probably stick VSTMs on it.

[swtt]

This is kinda interesting: Some new 399 services will morph into 394X as it arrives Kingsford and customers can remain on the bus for a direct trip into town.

[J_Busworth]

Personally, I can't say I'm terribly upset with the proposed network. But then again when a network picks winners and losers and you are a clear winner how can you really be unhappy with things.

I live less than 10 minutes walk to three All Day Frequent Network Routes, Routes 350, 370 and 390X. I also live less than five minutes walk from a number of other services with frequency upgrades, Routes 313, 339, 339X, 374 and 374X. Compare that to someone in La Perouse, who has lost their direct service to the City outside of peak, and also their service to the nearest major shopping centre...

Pros:
- All Day Frequent Network. It is much needed, and I am impressed at the sheer coverage the proposed ADFN manages to achieve whilst still ensuring it operates along direct and busy corridors
- Night Network. Similar to the ADFN, well thought out and does a good job of servicing everyone.
- Weekday 362s over summer. I can imagine they will be popular, there was no good reason not to run the 362 daily over the January school holidays

Cons:
- The network picks winners and losers, with some areas receiving significantly better options than others
- No easy link between Randwick and Taylor Square. I would have sent the 374 and 396 to Circular Quay via Taylor Square and left Cleveland Street and Central to the 339 (and the tram)
- Weird and convoluted options to get from South Maroubra and Malabar Heights to the CBD

[Cazza]

This is kinda interesting: Some new 399 services will morph into 394X as it arrives Kingsford and customers can remain on the bus for a direct trip into town.

Same with some northbound 307s turning into eastbound 352s at Marrickville Metro. Not exactly sure this is a good move. Aside from the fact that run-on delays are likely to be exacerbated (traffic through Mascot, Newtown and Surry Hills is slow at the best of times), the likelihood of anyone wanting to head from Botany or Mascot onto Newtown/Surry Hills (or even Bondi Junction) would be better off getting a 309 to Green Square or Redfern and changing for a 352 (or any other east-west route) there (that's if there is even demand for that kind of journey in the first place). I really don't see the rational behind it.

Also, thinking more and more about it, I am quite disappointed that pretty much zero community consultation was held for such a big change to the network (that I'm aware of). No wonder everyone is kicking and screaming about it (even moreso than I suspect they would have) because they feel they've been betrayed and the changes are only based on a political agenda (which to an extent isn't far from the truth). I won't be surprised if the Eastern suburbs swing to a sheer red majority (side note, don't really know too much about the seats and who's in power down in this area- from my understanding, Labor is already in power down here) and Blue team really have just shot themselves in the foot, especially if nothing they have proposed changes.

Looking over the plans in a bit more detail, it seems they haven't really though too much about connectivity as a whole, rather just seeming that if any buses duplicate the light rail, it's the end of the world. Like why have the 390X run to BJ instead of Circular Quay to provide that crucial, frequent Anzac Pde -> Darlinghurst connection? The 396 here won't cut the mustard. Why remove the 400? What will the 397 achieve? Why does the 392 run to Redfern? Wouldn't terminating it at Randwick (or even BJ) suffice? Why are we so adamant on running frequent buses down Carr St instead of Coogee Bay Rd? Why doesn't the 350 run like this (https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/-33. ... d1!1m0!3e0) and let the 400 do it's job like it currently does?

These are plenty of valid questions that are likely to have been resolved if proper community consultation had taken place. As I said, the community feels frustrated they've been left in the dark without input, and IMO, rightly so.

[J_Busworth]

These are plenty of valid questions that are likely to have been resolved if proper community consultation had taken place. As I said, the community feels frustrated they've been left in the dark without input, and IMO, rightly so.

This whole furore actually relates to the draft network released for community consultation. People can provide feedback at the link provided on the MySydney website where all the details have been published. Ive attached the link below.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/survey-tak ... wKPNKS4_3D

[Cazza]

Survey Monkey? High tech, inclusive consultation right there... Apparently I've already taken it, so I can't answer again.

That really is poor if their main source of feedback is an online survey. Granted, I don't live in Sydney anymore so any public notifications via post, noticeboards, TV etc. wouldn't have reached me. But I do regularly check the TransportNSW website and haven't seen anything more than this 1 survey (apparently). And since I can't actually remember taking it, it probably was a good few years ago then.

So much has changed and being Sydney's highest patronised region(?), there is no shortage of demand for frequent, fast services with great connections right across the area. It will be interesting to see the extent this proposed network rolls ahead with, given the general feedback I've noticed (if there will even be an option for community input following this proposal). Time will tell.

[Swift]

A NSW agency not being consultative?? Impossible...not.

[pgt]

I'd be very surprised if for the 320 this is the final form and isn't say split into two separate routes in the city (not unlike the formerly merged 343 and 340).
Though trying to think what scope there is later on to split it, if so... unless the Opal data actually shows enough patronage going cross city on this route (eg. boarding somewhere on the North Shore, but alighting well past Central/Surry Hills area).
I think this to be not as likely considering the additional services they intend to add are only between Zetland and Central (notice not even to Wynyard like the current short working 320s do).

Similarly also surprised the 200 is staying the same, though I have seen myself some of the demand as I had to get this service a few times.

Interesting there is the "through routing" of sorts between the 307 and 352 at Marrickville Metro, and to a lesser degree between some peak 399 and 394X buses.
Thought they tried to discourage that for on-time running purposes, although maybe there's provision for enough slack in the timetable to allow for it (we shall see).

[swtt]

So big change to the number of buses on Oxford St with most of the cancelled routes (and the 396 is only seemingly every 10min)

The effective cuts to Anzac Parade to Darlinghurst are L94 and 399.

Currently the off peak service is:

• 392 - 2 services/hr
• 396 - 2 services/hr
• 397 - 2 services/hr
• 399 - 2 services/hr
• L94 - 4 services/hr

which makes up the 6 per hour.

Cutting the L94 and 399 basically halves the frequency, which the light rail would have easily absorbed with its 8 min frequency from Kingsford to the City. In fact between Kingsford and the City, it's a fairly big upgrade given the LRV capacity is also far greater per set.

[moa999]

And the 373/377 which go up Alison Rd and are 4/hr off peak.

[Stu]

- Big missed opportunity not to have the 358 be a frequent service and be extended to Bondi Junction. It would provide a key link between the Illawarra Line (and soon to be Metro) at Sydenham Station, T8 at Mascot and Kingsford, UNSW, Randwick and onto Bondi Junction. On that, the 303 should terminate at Randwick, not the hospital. Too much of a key interchange and destination to be terminating a stones throw (but considerable walk) away.

The route 357 used to operate to Sydenham during peak hours and Bondi Jct. to Eastlakes prior to the route being merged with route 418 in October 2013. When route 357 was reinstated in September 2018, operated to Mascot (past Eastlakes and short of Sydenham). The route 357 has now been split into 356 & 358.

[Swift]

Why do they keep meddling?

[tonyp]

I rather like the use of peak contraflow with the express SE buses going north on the ED and then along Elizabeth St from north to south in am peak then vv in pm. That's gets the buses running in the opposite direction to the typical peak congestion flows (read: slow-moving car parks). End of a long era too with only four services left going to CQ, leaving that destination to the train and light rail.

The outstanding matters are still getting the light rail journey time under 30 minutes and setting up a decent proximity interchange at Randwick. The present arrangement is terrible.

[tonyp]

This map is good for identifying the frequent service routes in isolation:

https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/d ... 281%29.pdf

It would be good if they produced similar maps showing exclusively the non-frequent services and, separately, the peak express services. It would help those trying to understand the changes cut through the mud.

[tonyp]

Sydney bus changes: 25 routes cut in major shake-up

An MP has hit out at widespread changes to bus services in Sydney’s east and southeast, claiming the state government is ‘punishing residents to use the light rail’.
Gary Hamilton-Irvine

May 6, 2021 - 2:00PM
Southern Courier

Twenty-five bus routes will be cut across southeast Sydney under plans announced by NSW Transport Minister Andrew Constance.

Sweeping changes were announced on Thursday morning for bus services and routes across southeast Sydney which will come into effect in late 2021.

A local MP has slammed the move as “forcing people to use the light rail” and taking away vital services.

The changes include 25 bus routes being cut, 11 new routes being introduced, and a further 23 routes being modified.

Suburbs impacted include Maroubra, Eastgardens, Pagewood, Little Bay, Malabar, Botany, Coogee, Kingsford, Kensington, Mascot, Rosebery, Waterloo, Zetland, Randwick, Waverley and Bondi Junction.

A full breakdown of the changes can be found below.

Mr Constance said the introduction of the light rail – which runs from Randwick and Kingsford to the CBD – meant bus services needed to be updated.

“The L2 and L3 (light rail) lines have changed the way customers travel to and from the CBD, by providing frequent turn-up-and-go services, so we need to update our bus schedules accordingly,” Mr Constance said.

“When we introduced and implemented the light rail we were always going to make significant changes to the bus routes.”

He claimed the changes would “provide much-needed capacity and frequency improvements” to customers including improved bus services to the beaches and more frequent bus services to key locations such as the University of NSW, Eastgardens and the bustling Green Square precinct.

“To help reduce duplication on the network some bus routes will be withdrawn and replaced by new or altered bus routes or frequent light rail services,” a NSW Government statement read.

Coogee state Labor MP Marjorie O’Neill has campaigned to stop eastern suburbs bus routes from being cut and slammed the “egregious” announcement.

“These cuts are worse than we could have imagined,” she said.

“The original plan only had 16 routes (to be cut) and it now has 25 and includes express buses.

“This is all about forcing people to use the light rail ... they are punishing us, the people of the eastern suburbs, and forcing us to use the light rail.”

She said, for example, the X93 bus was hugely popular and was now earmarked to be taken away.

“The reality is if you are talking about increasing the capacity of public transport the light rail should be there in addition to the buses.”

Last year, plans to cut bus services in southeast Sydney were leaked and the plans were largely slammed by local MPs for not replacing services “like for like”.

More information on the changes including where the new and modified routes will run can be found here.

The plans are currently open for public feedback until June 18.
Bus changes in Sydney’s southeast:

11 new routes: 306, 310, 350, 350N, 356, 358, 373N, 375, 390X, 392N, 469

25 routes cut: 300, 301, 302, 309X, 310X, 314, 316, 317, 338, 353, 357, 372, 373, 376, 377, 391, 393, 394, 395, 400, 400N, L94, X40, X93, X99

23 routes modified: 303, 304, 307, 309, 313, 320, 339, 339X, 343, 348, 355, 362, 370, 373X, 374, 374X, 377X, 392, 397, 399, 418, 420, 420N

[swtt]

Sydney bus changes: 25 routes cut in major shake-up

Scare campaign again.

[Jurassic_Joke]

- I don't think terminating the 370 at UoS is ideal. Send it up to Glebe Point (and potentially remove the 431), so it at least services Broadway and something beyond.

Yeah I wouldn’t mind if they just scrapped the 431 altogether if it meant boost to frequency on the otherwise more useful routes such a 433 and soon to be 469. Almost all of 431’s route is shared with other bus routes anyway, all serving relatively high frequent corridors (Glebe Pt Road has 370 and 433, and then all the other City-Martin Place buses on the rest of the route). The many times over the years I’ve taken the 431 to the Glebe Point terminus for fun, every time no matter what time of the day it is - I’m the only person on the bus at the end! I find it a bit strange that something like 431, which literally runs almost the entire route in parallel with other buses, gets to remain unchanged in its current form while everywhere else there are buses that also have nothing to do with CSELR’s route and otherwise serve a unique or useful route and are (partially) getting the chop anyway. Eg, 400, 370, 314, 348, 357, 301 etc

[Qantas94Heavy]

I'd actually agree with sending the 370 to Glebe Point instead. The 431 can either become a peak only service or scrapped entirely.
It'd deliver a better link between Glebe and Newtown. 433 and light rail serves much of the Glebe Point to City catchment.

I also wonder if running buses through Darlington Rd will cause noise complaints – then again most of the terraces are used for student accommodation anyway, so...

I was personally hoping for some form of north-south route via Missenden Rd, but probably too radical for the planners to consider.

[Nugget]

A lot of the inner south routes cut are P routes. The routes that are left are run by TSA depots.

[Jurassic_Joke]

Just while still on the topic of 431, I remember when it ran through George St, The Rocks up to Miller’s Point terminus, before that bus corridor was abolished when CSELR’s construction started. Now that that is done, it is a bit sad they didn’t reinstate this route - i mean, it’s technically possible again through Bridge St before turning right into George St?

[stupid_girl]

This is kinda interesting: Some new 399 services will morph into 394X as it arrives Kingsford and customers can remain on the bus for a direct trip into town.

I don't understand why it is not called 399X.

It is more logical and much less confusing if services to/from UNSW High Street are called 399 and services to/from city (not via High Street) are called 399X.