Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

[stupid_girl]

After taking a short off-peak bus trip ($1.6), will I get $2 discount when transferring to other modes?

[moa999]

Theoretically yes.. but I expect it will mean a free transfer temporarily - indeed up to 8km on a bus
(I'd be surprised if the logic allows a negative fare)

[Aurora]

The loss in revenue from the off-peak additional discount should be offset by more peak fare revenue. Considering how packed pre-6.30am trains can be, I think a 6-9:30 morning peak fare period probably would have been better than 6.30-10am.

[boronia]

After taking a short off-peak bus trip ($1.6), will I get $2 discount when transferring to other modes?

IIRC, half fare concessions only get a $1 transfer rebate, so this may apply to OP discounts as well?

[boronia]

From the Newcastle Herald:

https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/stor ... ges/?cs=12

Cost of Newcastle tram rides to rise by close to $1 as part of changes to public transport fares which include new off-peak discounts

Wouldn't most passengers using the LR be transferring to/from other modes, and only paying around 25c per ride?

[boxythingy]

A new $8.05 cap will also be introduced on weekends to encourage the spread of weekend commuter loading.

How? Is this the end of the $2.80 Sunday cap?

[moa999]

Yes.
Sat and Sun cap instead of Sun only cap.

In the short term with half price fares (other than on ferries) many won't hit the cap though

[Frodo]

As someone who used to catch a train after 9am and 6.30pm where possible, these changes are nothing more than a cash grab. If they really wanted to stagger travel, they would encourage people to travel outside the current peak times.
When things return to normal and I go back to the office, I won't be able to travel off peak because commuting at 10am and starting at 11am just isn't feasible. And so, I will probably be catching a train at 8 or 8.30am instead, adding to the congestion since I'll be forced to pay peak fares regardless.

[jake_s_258]

When things return to normal and I go back to the office, I won't be able to travel off peak because commuting at 10am and starting at 11am just isn't feasible. And so, I will probably be catching a train at 8 or 8.30am instead, adding to the congestion since I'll be forced to pay peak fares regardless.

Totally agree. If you were already travelling at 6:30am or 3pm to take advantage of the off-peak fares, what is the incentive to not just go back to 7:30am or 4:30pm in the height of the peak when it is far more crowded? This makes no sense to me if you're trying to encourage people to move away from the 8am and 5pm band of services.

$2 transfer discount remains unchanged.

[moa999]

$2 discount remains unchanged.
I think the question was if you transfer to a 0-3km bus/light rail which will be $1.60 temporarily, do you get 40c back?
(Or even 3-8km)

Agree the change in peak times is extremely poor and will likely cause more crowding in the real peak as people are unable to adjust their travel by more

[Fleet Lists]

There is a link on Transport Info https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/opa ... rom-6-july but it goes nowhere at this stage.

I also thought there was an earlier thread on the new fares for this year but I can not find it so I will leave things here for the moment.

This should really be a separate thread and will create one if I dont find the other one.

PS Found and here it is in this thread now.

[stupid_girl]

From the Newcastle Herald:

https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/stor ... ges/?cs=12

Cost of Newcastle tram rides to rise by close to $1 as part of changes to public transport fares which include new off-peak discounts

Wouldn't most passengers using the LR be transferring to/from other modes, and only paying around 25c per ride?

Under the new fare, if they transfer to LR in peak hour, then they have to pay 3.2-2=1.2 per ride.

[Newcastle Flyer]

According to the news, passengers will pay an extra $1 on the Newcastle light rail. At the moment it's $2.24 Adults, $1.12 concession and 12 cents for pensioners.

It was at first, "meant to be" part of the train fare.

[stupid_girl]

According to the news, passengers will pay an extra $1 on the Newcastle light rail. At the moment it's $2.24 Adults, $1.12 concession and 12 cents for pensioners.

It was at first, "meant to be" part of the train fare.

For those transferring to light rail in peak, the light rail fare is effectively rising from 0.24 to 1.2, which is 400% increase.

[Passenger 57]

Media release on transport.nsw.gov.au

[boxythingy]

Yes.
Sat and Sun cap instead of Sun only cap.

In the short term with half price fares (other than on ferries) many won't hit the cap though

So what exactly will be in place for just three months? Is it just the 50% off peak fares for heavy rail, and the newly introduced peaks for buses and light rail before reverting back to the standard 30%? Will the Weekend cap be temporary as to spread the load between the two days?

It is very odd how peak hour will be applicable for all buses, since some bus routes hardly crowd due to severely time limited timetable and universally run with plenty of seats (no standing required)

It also does not make sense how they have not implemented specific peaks for certain stations on the extremities of the suburban network, noting that crowding is as a result of essentially off peak frequencies during the peak charged at the premium rate.

Why is it that they allowed the Sunday cap to rise from $2.50, to $2.60 then $2.70 and then $2.80 whilst the $2.00 and $1.00 Intermodal transfer discount has remained static? Given the 300% to 400% fare increases as some have noted, this discount should have been increased immediately from $2.00 to $2.40 reflecting the number of times that the Sunday cap has increased.

Also some of these people need to get out of their ministerial vehicles and try their luck at interchanging between modes as this happens far too often:


Also having read the Ipart report, "fare increases have not accounted for new infrastructure provisions". How laudable as this is an instance of where correlation =/= causation.

Taxpayers money should be used to spend on these projects, but why should more taxpayers have to folk out even more money to help off-set these when these projects are expected? It really justifies the neoliberal privatisation point of view, i.e. (small) Government should not have to use tax payers money to fund infrastructure and therefore it would not justify tax increases.

[stupid_girl]

I wonder how much damage this fare hike will do to the feeder bus network. With an effective flagfall of $1.2, it would be extremely unattractive for anyone to use a feeder bus for the last mile.

Fortunately, peak express buses will stay in the South East. No one in their right mind would take a feeder bus and transfer to light rail in peak hours.

[Fleet Lists]

Keep in mind that regular travellers will just reach the cap a bit quicker. It will hit the casual traveller more.

[stupid_girl]

Keep in mind that regular travellers will just reach the cap a bit quicker. It will hit the casual traveller more.

A regular traveller from Marouba (or Coogee) to Central will not hit the cap. Transferring to light rail at Kingsford (or Randwick) is more expensive but less convenient.

[Passenger 57]

Can someone confirm my understanding of IPART's Final Determination.

TfNSW claims in their pricing proposal the increase in the 0-3km bus and light rail is "aligned to the appropriate maximum fares as defined in Schedule 1 of the determination". IPART concurs that this is so in their fact sheet.

Yet, my copy of the determination has the maximum 0-3km bus and light rail fares in tables 2 and 4 of Schedule 1 set at $2.91. This differs from the $3.20 figure in the report. BTW, this is the recommended maximum applying until 2024 or until revoked so there is no justification for setting the maximum fare in 2020 whichever one it is. The good news is that the 0-3km peak bus and light rail fares won't be able to further rise during the determination period. So much for incentivising walking it reduces with inflation.

The increase in the 0-3km bus fare combined with reduced prices on longer distance trips without an increase in the transfer rebate will totally undermine transfer behaviour. I will not be transferring from bus to rail on trips to the city once the off-peak discount reduces.

[Fleet Lists]

The recommended price is an overall figure. So this year the overall figure is well below the recommended percentage.

Next year they can again increase any individual fare INCLUDING the short distance amounts as long as the overall percentage for all fares do not exceed the recommended percentage. And they can do that every year.

[Passenger 57]

Did you read the determination? Unlike the 2016 determination, where there is a formula, this one sets maximum prices in schedule 1 for the determination period. The inflation multiplier only applies if the determination is extended beyond 2024.

[Fleet Lists]

Yes but I believe what I said still applies.

[Passenger 57]

Gazetted

[boxythingy]

Gazetted

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/opa ... 558q1.html

I admit it would be a "difficult issue" to balance the requirement of continuously increasing fares in the context of recent very slow to no real wage growth whilst awaiting the full impact of the impending recession.

These fare rises will disproportionately price out those who can least afford a triple rate hike. How much more dignity can you take away from those who barely have any by gazetting these into law? Meanwhile those with more discretionary income will just drive and the trains will run with minimal passenger numbers to justify railway staff jobs

Here's hoping that the $8.05 weekend cap does not rise in line with inflation for at least until well after the recession ends and most people get back onto their two feet again. If the cap had been increased to $4 or $5, perhaps it would be tolerable if it rose $0.05 every two years or so.

Also can one also see this happening? Sharp fare rise coinciding with a sharp rise in "fare evasion" cases? One has to wonder how many more mistakes public infrastructure mistakes will be made to justify recouping these monies from taxpayers? First there was Ferry McFerryFace, then the cost blowouts to metro, and now the realisation that wrecking inner city heritage was not a good idea. All of the sudden there is no big pile of cash from fulfilling a fantasy of pocketing off private developers!