Sydney Metro West announced

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mandonov
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by mandonov »

grog wrote: Once you take into account Metro track form and platform heights, you would have a 30m of vertical separation up to street level, which would also be the level of the transfer concourse at the lower end of the site, and then ~5m stairs down to Sydney Trains platforms. Pretty much the same as Epping, and only possible due to shallower depth from being side-by-side rather than being mined below the platforms.
It's only comparable to Epping if you ignore the lateral movement of at least 50 metres to get from the metro site across to the city-bound platform. It's truly a sub-par outcome.
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tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

mandonov wrote: It's only comparable to Epping if you ignore the lateral movement of at least 50 metres to get from the metro site across to the city-bound platform. It's truly a sub-par outcome.
Again I think premature to speculate until we see plans. It will be sub-par (maybe) if there are opal gates between train systems and if there are pedestrian crossings and roads to be crossed (in the open) between any of the four modes. It already seems that it will be sub-par in relation to the trams. Buses we don't know yet but there's potentially hope there if they think it through. I think the metro station position has to do with getting the line across to the southern side of the Western Line to position it for future extension to the airport or wherever.
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grog
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by grog »

There is next to no chance of opal gates and at grade road crossing at Westmead or North Strathfield. The scoping report talks about an overhead transfer concourse and adjustment of existing platforms and track to accommodate.
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tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

grog wrote:There is next to no chance of opal gates and at grade road crossing at Westmead or North Strathfield. The scoping report talks about an overhead transfer concourse and adjustment of existing platforms and track to accommodate.
They should be able to link the Alexandra Ave bus stops into such a design so that people don't have to cross the road at level. The final hat trick then is to bring the tram around to Railway Pde (or even a closed Alexandra Ave) and include it in the same structure!
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moa999
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by moa999 »

The way Opal currently works you need to tap off light rail and tap on train/metro. I can't see that changing.
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tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote:The way Opal currently works you need to tap off light rail and tap on train/metro. I can't see that changing.
I assume it would be no problem having Opal barriers to bus and tram within the same structure.
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boronia
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by boronia »

tonyp wrote:
moa999 wrote:The way Opal currently works you need to tap off light rail and tap on train/metro. I can't see that changing.
I assume it would be no problem having Opal barriers to bus and tram within the same structure.
Happens at Central for trams already.
Last edited by boronia on Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Fleet Lists »

On trams it is external to the vehicle while on buses it is done on the vehicle so not common.
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Transtopic
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Transtopic »

Further to my earlier post, I've tried in a round about way to upload images of the station locations for the original West Metro for comparison with the current proposal. I hope it works.

At that time, Parramatta, Strathfield and Central were proposed as the major interchange stations with the then CityRail network.

https://imgur.com/y4glY6Q
https://imgur.com/9hcZcsd
https://imgur.com/R0b3MDg
https://imgur.com/PBDZRnr
https://imgur.com/MXoJiYT
https://imgur.com/weyDSIK
https://imgur.com/Zn0Tb1j
https://imgur.com/vlPHKFB
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boronia
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by boronia »

Andrew Constance demands build of metro train yard within 2 years

https://www.railexpress.com.au/andrew-c ... n-2-years/

I'm sure an article I read in the press yesterday had this referring to the new speedway, not the railyard.
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tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

I don't think that's serious. It's just been picked up by a robot and uncritically reproduced. That's what Railexpress and a lot of these news outlets are nowadays. Relying on robots without critically checking them can produce some hilarious results. For some years Railpage news has been running stories on the "Albion Park Rail Bypass" as though it's rail news, without picking up once that it's actually a road bypass of a suburb called Albion Park Rail.
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rogf24
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by rogf24 »

So this just happened. Very much buried underneath all the other news going around. https://www.railwaygazette.com/projects ... 40.article
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Daniel
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Daniel »

The Sydney Metro West Stage 1 EIS is now on public exhibition. Only 704 pages..... go

https://www.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/m ... ject/25631
stupid_girl
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by stupid_girl »

According to EIS, Parramatta and Olympic Park will only provide indirect rail connection. I guess it means passengers must exit and re-enter the other station.

Westmead will provide connection to intercity services. Presumably it means most Blue Mountains trains will stop there.

North Strathfield will provide potential connection to intercity services. Presumably it means some Newcastle trains may stop there. The current trains are slow enough that an additional stop probably won't impact the travelling time.
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jpp42
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by jpp42 »

Few announcements yesterday

Ryldamere is officially killed:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-30/ ... d/12199890

Pyrmont is proceeding "to the next stage of assessment"

https://www.sydneymetro.info/west/project-overview
Following extensive community and stakeholder engagement, planning for a potential metro station at Pyrmont will progress to the next stage of assessment. Sydney Metro will continue to work closely with Government stakeholders to ensure that any plans for Pyrmont are consistent with the planning work being undertaken to revitalise the Pyrmont Peninsula, including the Western Harbour precinct, into the next jobs hub and economic driver of Sydney.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by lunchbox »

Note that something called the "Bays Road Relocation Works Review of Environmental Factors" closes earlier than the EIS: on 29 May 2020
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by lunchbox »

Why the big "S" bend between Olympic Park and North Strathfield?
On a second glance it appears it's to get the Metro station box close to and parallel to the existing station - probably something to do with property resumptions, too.
Last edited by lunchbox on Thu May 21, 2020 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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swtt
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by swtt »

For the laymen amongst us: the EIS summary which isn't so technical.

https://www.sydneymetro.info/sites/defa ... mary_4.pdf
hornetfig
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by hornetfig »

lunchbox wrote:Note that something called the "Bays Road Relocation Works Review of Environmental Factors"
It's the realignment of the White Bay access road
https://www.sydneymetro.info/sites/defa ... tter-1.pdf
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jpp42
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by jpp42 »

lunchbox wrote:Why the big "S" bend between Olympic Park and North Strathfield?
If you look at the summary EIS, there are smaller maps of the corridor (p. 80 onwards, according to the page numbers in the document itself, not the PDF reader). Looking at this, I think the "S bend" is not quite as big as it looks - that appears to be the result of smoothing out a number of smaller curves to make the stylized overview map. There are however a lot of smaller curves, and although the document doesn't specifically explain the reasons, I'm sure they are for various geotechnical considerations, such as avoiding existing structures (stadiums, road tunnels, existing railway tunnels and dives), and so the TBM remains in compatible soil types (they might avoid wet muddy soils too close to the harbour). You will also notice there are gradients, which is likely connected to the soil type issue - they need to dive deep enough under the tidal creeks that are tributaries of the upper Parramatta, to avoid the muddy soils that the TBM can't handle, but need to be closer to the surface for the stations. It might be that the curves are also to add length to ensure the required maximum gradients aren't exceeded and they can still dive deep enough.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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METRO WEST EIS
The Environmental Impact Statement currently on display for public comment (closing 26 June 2020 ) is for the "Concept and Stage 1 Applications" - ie - tunnels and station boxes.

https://www.planningportal.nsw.gov.au/m ... ject/25631

The following discussion points may provoke some useful comments for inclusion in submissions.

It is noted that submissions will be considered by the Department of Planning, Industry and Environment in its assessment of the project, and that the Department of Planning, Industry and Environment will provide Sydney Metro with a copy of all submissions received during the exhibition period. Sydney Metro will review all the submissions and prepare a Submissions Report to respond to issues raised. If changes are required as a result of the issues raised, a Preferred Infrastructure Report may also be prepared. Approval from the Minister for Planning and Public Spaces is required before Sydney Metro can proceed with the project.

INFORMATION BY “DRIP”
It is regrettable that the public has not been given sufficient information to respond to the whole of the Metro West project. It has become common in recent years to drip-feed information to the public for major projects, while major portions of the project are still in the concept or design stages. It inhibits transparency in democratic decision-making and is not in the public interest. In this case, the public is invited to respond to the “tunnels and station boxes” components of a project, without any details of the trains or stations which they will use. Nor can any public comment be regarded as “informed” when no information is available regarding the Bays to City section of the project.

DESIGN BY FUNCTION OR BY COST?
There is a widely held view that the impetus for this West Metro was a rather late realisation that Sydney Trains' Western Line, between Sydney City and Parramatta, was already exceeding capacity at certain times of day, and that to relieve overcrowding some kind of parallel relief capacity was required. Hence Metro West. But the proposed design of Metro West implies that its main, or sole, purpose is as a relief for Sydney Trains' Western Line. The design should have a much wider vision, both geographically and with a view to the future. The design of West Metro should reflect the likelihood of it being extended, at one or both ends, and needing to serve the kind of urban development which is likely to have occurred around its stations over the next hundred years.

MINIMISING TRIP TIMES
Initial Sydney Metro promotional material, circa 2011, emphasised the need to minimise door-to-door travel times for Metro passengers. The need therefore to minimise walking distances at stations and at interchanges was acknowledged. That principle seems to have been abandoned in more recent times. It is most glaringly obvious by the failure to implement across-the-platform interchange for passengers at junction stations, a railway design principle which has been in practice throughout the world for over a hundred years. As Sydney's rail network expands, the need for passengers to interchange between lines will grow, exacerbating this failure. A cynic might be excused for concluding that Sydney Metro is being done “on the cheap”.

WHERE IS THE PLANNING?
The map of light rail and Metro proposals for the localities east of Parramatta, neither of which has provision for interchange, and neither serving the railway junction station at Granville, is beginning to look like a failure of transport planning.

The following comments relate to specific locations along the route of the proposed railway.

1 – WESTMEAD STATION
The EIS proposes that Westmead Metro Station be built underground and to the south of the existing Sydney Trains' surface station, below Alexandra Avenue, with just one entrance, on Hawkesbury Road.

This is less than optimal from the passengers' point of view. Note that Westmead Metro station is a terminal station, implying considerable pedestrian activity. For passengers transferring between the Metro terminal station and Sydney Trains' surface station, the present design would involve long walking distances, including the crossing of a heavily trafficked public road, Alexandra Avenue, all without satisfactory weather protection. Long walking distances imply longer overall travel times for passengers.

The Metro station should be moved to a site north of Sydney Trains' station, where access to that station, the hospital precinct, the University of Western Sydney campus and the light rail terminal, would enable much shorter, safer, and faster pedestrian links. A direct, “Opal-tag-free” underground pedestrian link should be provided to the Sydney Trains platforms. Another underground “all-weather” pedestrian passage should be provided under Hawkesbury Road, to a station entrance in the vicinity of the Hawkesbury / Darcy / Farmhouse block.

The underground tag-free link to the Sydney Trains platforms should be provided even if the Metro station remains in its presently planned location.

2 - OLYMPIC PARK STATION
We note that this Concept and Stage 1 Application is just for tunnels and station boxes. No provision has been made for terminating trains at this station. Given the “event” crowds which might be expected over the life of this station, such provision should at least be anticipated, and the necessary preliminary works carried out, for future provision of, for example, one or more terminating tracks and double-sided or “Spanish” platforms. Such provisions would require a much wider excavation box than is presently proposed for Olympic Park station. It may also require realignment of the tunnels approaching the station.

3 - NORTH STRATHFIELD STATION
Given the close proximity to the Sydney Trains station, and the likelihood of a high volume of interchanging passengers, short, all-weather, tag-free, underground pedestrian links should be provided, as suggested for Westmead station, above.

4 - FIVE DOCK STATION
Why are the operational tunnels shown widely spaced at Five Dock but not at other stations? Is it because Five Dock is to have an island platform?
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mandonov
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by mandonov »

Why on earth would you spend a fortune making a grand Olympic Park events station when there's already a grand Olympic Park events station??

The existing station in events mode can already move something like 48,000pp/h? The metro will then almost treble that capacity with its 40,000pp/h per direction at full 30TPH.

So in the near future the heavy rail capacity (not even counting future Parra LR) at Olympic Park for events will be 48,000 + 80,000 - other users of metro = 100,000pp/h at least. ANZ Stadium only holds 83,000 spectators, set to be reduced to 70,000 by the time this line is constructed. Even with concurrent events, the existing station and a wide island platform metro station will be more than adequate for many decades; especially if they're ever augmented even further with a north-south metro in the distant future.

I think it's a waste of money to construct or even future proof for any specific events infrastructure for the metro. What really matters is ensuring there's 4 doors per carriage side to sweep platforms in seconds, especially if there's only to be one or two CBD stations.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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Keep in mind that the current heavy rail route may not be retained after the Metro opens.
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mubd
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by mubd »

I am highly doubtful that they would ever consider ditching the heavy rail station. It's very useful.
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swtt
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by swtt »

mandonov wrote:Why on earth would you spend a fortune making a grand Olympic Park events station when there's already a grand Olympic Park events station??

The existing station in events mode can already move something like 48,000pp/h? The metro will then almost treble that capacity with its 40,000pp/h per direction at full 30TPH.

So in the near future the heavy rail capacity (not even counting future Parra LR) at Olympic Park for events will be 48,000 + 80,000 - other users of metro = 100,000pp/h at least. ANZ Stadium only holds 83,000 spectators, set to be reduced to 70,000 by the time this line is constructed. Even with concurrent events, the existing station and a wide island platform metro station will be more than adequate for many decades; especially if they're ever augmented even further with a north-south metro in the distant future.

I think it's a waste of money to construct or even future proof for any specific events infrastructure for the metro. What really matters is ensuring there's 4 doors per carriage side to sweep platforms in seconds, especially if there's only to be one or two CBD stations.
Because interchanging at Lidcombe is nuts?

Don't forget SOP is now tranforming itself into a business + residential hub. Opal Tower saga aside, the Carter St precinct means Olympic Park Station in the way it operates, and how the West lines are at saturation, will simply be its own Carlingford Line style (albeit frequent) service - shuttles to Lidcombe even if there is patronage to warrant direct services.

It's also affording places like The Bays, Five Dock, Burwood North and Nth Strathfield a direct link to SOP. Adding more 525/526s from Strathfield isn't really viable from those catchments either.

It will also be able to relieve Rhodes as the interchange station for Wentworth Point customers travelling to the City, and also into Parramatta.
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