Parramatta light rail

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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by gascoyne »

Now we've seen how T4NSW handles the CBD&S-E light rail (badly) we should watch out for similar mistakes here. For a start, the Carlingford leg doesn't have enough stops. Rydalmere-Dundas-Telopea-Carlingford is almost 4km yet light rail won't have any other stops. There should be one for UWS, probably near the footbridge across Vineyard Ck. Planners seem to have confused the LR stops with Melbourne-style railway stations, putting fences everywhere and all along the track; that's inappropriate. As well as more stops, the line should be extended via Carlingford Court to Epping, permitting efficient connection with metro and DD rail.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

Typical lazy ass Sydney planning choosing an existing rail corridor already carrying passengers on the rail network as a way to save money on the two fronts of closing down a branch line and building their light rail line where it's cheapest and easiest , not to where it needs to go.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by boronia »

I'll bet the government has found somewhere they can whack a few high rise apartment blocks along the corridor.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

Sleazy developers can make their quick buck ruining more suburbs with their mixed use shoebox apartment towers and move on to their next prey.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Swift wrote:Sleazy developers can make their quick buck ruining more suburbs with their mixed use shoebox apartment towers and move on to their next prey.
You mean more apartments that are snapped up by fly in fly out international investors and cashed up Australians that want to get into the business of being a landlord that is why the government wants the Parramatta light rail and the western Sydney metro
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

Campbelltown busboy wrote:
Swift wrote:Sleazy developers can make their quick buck ruining more suburbs with their mixed use shoebox apartment towers and move on to their next prey.
You mean more apartments that are snapped up by fly in fly out international investors and cashed up Australians that want to get into the business of being a landlord that is why the government wants the Parramatta light rail and the western Sydney metro
Yep, that sounds right. Australians are no better than foreigners when it comes to rackets like that.
You can guarantee any decision by a NSW government is ultimately for vested interests of a minority, not for the interests of all. It's just smoke and mirrors in the end.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Stu »

New route for Parramatta's free shuttle.
Transdev route 900.

http://parramattalightrail.nsw.gov.au/n ... ee-shuttle
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Transtopic »

Swift wrote:Typical lazy ass Sydney planning choosing an existing rail corridor already carrying passengers on the rail network as a way to save money on the two fronts of closing down a branch line and building their light rail line where it's cheapest and easiest , not to where it needs to go.
Politicians in this country are a bunch of crooks.
This was much the same attitude by the previous Labor government when planning the original Parramatta to Chatswood Rail Link. They chose the slow circuitous route between Dundas on the Carlingford Line and Macquarie University via Carlingford and Epping, instead of the more direct and faster option from Dundas to Macquarie University via Eastwood. The Eastwood option also had a Y link connection from Epping to Macquarie University, now closed, to allow trains on the Northern Line from Hornsby to have direct access to Macquarie Park and Chatswood.

This ill-considered decision was made for no other reason than supposedly to cut costs by utilising almost the whole of the Carlingford Line infrastructure compared with the allegedly more expensive, but nonetheless more practical and logical route via Eastwood. Their reasoning for not selecting the Eastwood option was dismissed in a single paragraph in the EIS as being more expensive. Although it was shorter in length, there was allegedly more tunnelling involved compared with using the surface Carlingford Line between Dundas and Carlingford. I would challenge this assertion on the basis that the Eastwood route is some 3km shorter and the length of tunnelling from Carlingford to Epping on a circuitous route would be similar to that on the straighter alignment from Dundas to Eastwood. Adding to the Carlingford/Epping route the cost of duplicating and upgrading the existing surface line from Dundas to Carlingford, I am puzzled why the Eastwood route would be more expensive, if at all. There were no relative costings for the Eastwood option released, so there was no opportunity for the public to have an informed appraisal of the relative merits of each option. Redevelopment opportunities at Telopea and Carlingford would no doubt also have played a role, but unbelievably, similar opportunities at the much larger retail/commercial centre at Eastwood, the then largest on the Northern Line between Strathfield and Hornsby (now supplanted by Rhodes), were completely ignored.

A similar behaviour has emerged in the planning of the Parramatta Light Rail project. An independent preliminary feasibility study carried out on behalf of Parramatta Council by reputable consultants had recommended as a first stage, a light rail route from Westmead to Macquarie University via Parramatta, Rydalmere and Eastwood. It would utilise the Carlingford Line from Camellia to Dundas, then switch to a road alignment via Kissing Point Rd (a 6 lane divided arterial road) and the Eastwood County Road reservation, a similarly wide corridor which has lain dormant for almost 70 years, to Macquarie University. Most of this corridor is already owned by the government, requiring minimal resumptions. A route to Macquarie University via Carlingford and Epping was dismissed during earlier investigations and didn't even make the short-list of final options.

Then Transport for NSW got its grubby hands on it and instead of building on the work already done, which they had initially promised, they completely ignored the earlier recommendations and set up their own options, which didn't even include Parramatta Council's preferred option to Macquarie University via Eastwood. The Council's feasibility study quickly disappeared off its website and has not been seen since.

One of their options was a link from Parramatta to Macquarie Park via Carlingford (no mention of Epping). It was fairly vague, as there is no practical link from Carlingford to Macquarie Park other than through Epping and that would only be duplicating the then Epping to Chatswood Rail Link. Perhaps they meant a link from the Carlingford Line, rather than from Carlingford itself, which would still have left open the option of a route via Eastwood. While a light rail link between Parramatta and Macquarie Park, you would think, would be the primary consideration, it has now been progressively downgraded to a link to just Carlingford, not even to Epping, because it's cheaper to just convert the Carlingford HR line. But it comes nowhere near fulfilling the original objective of connecting Parramatta and Macquarie Park by light rail.

Extending the light rail line from Carlingford to Epping is no longer an option, if in fact it ever was, as it is not feasible because of cost and engineering challenges, already conceded by the government. If they had bothered to take note of Parramatta Council's feasibility study, they would understand why and saved themselves the trouble of having to keep back-tracking on their plans. They haven't thought things through and it's just planning on the run, which inevitably will come back to bite you. Even now, despite all the hype, there's no certainty that their Stage 2 light rail plan will proceed.

Should Stage 2 not proceed, no doubt upsetting a lot of their developer mates, then the opportunity arises to finally realise the original plan to connect Parramatta and Macquarie Park with light rail via Eastwood, which should have been done in the first place, saving themselves a lot of angst. The proposed light rail conversion to Carlingford wouldn't be wasted, as it would become a complementary branch with the Macquarie Park Line, just as a branch to Castle Hill from the Westmead route was proposed in the original scheme. Why do they have to keep reinventing the wheel?

The Eastwood light rail route between Parramatta and Macquarie University has some advantages over a longer route via Carlingford and Epping. Apart from being much faster, it would provide a direct link between Parramatta and Macquarie University and the Macquarie Park area generally, which are the principal traffic generators. Even Eastwood itself would be a significant traffic generator and even more so with enhanced redevelopment opportunities, which was acknowledged in Parramatta Council's feasibility study. It would, like Epping, still provide interchange with the Northern Line, while interchange with Metro Northwest would also be possible at Macquarie University Station.

Regrettably, current transport planning seems to be more focussed on redevelopment opportunities, rather than to satisfy a need for improved public transport to established communities which are not adequately serviced.
Last edited by Transtopic on Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Aurora »

Stu wrote:New route for Parramatta's free shuttle.
Transdev route 900.

http://parramattalightrail.nsw.gov.au/n ... ee-shuttle
Interesting considering the slow rebranding of Metrobus routes back to their former numbers. M90 remains but for how long?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

There should be a metro branch linking Macquarie Centre to the future metro through Parramatta . We don't want another slug rail with their absolutely pathetic run times from a risk averse regime from AM-NSW -Anal Micromanagement for NSW. :!: :!:
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Aurora wrote:
Stu wrote:New route for Parramatta's free shuttle.
Transdev route 900.

http://parramattalightrail.nsw.gov.au/n ... ee-shuttle
Interesting considering the slow rebranding of Metrobus routes back to their former numbers. M90 remains but for how long?
it's also interesting that Transport For NSW haven't sold or voluntarily handed the shuttle service back to Parramatta council yet and they could revert the M90 back to 860 witch was the number that was used for the Liverpool to Bankstown route pre the 2006 government review witch saw it merge with ether the 485 or 486
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by BAMBAM »

Campbelltown busboy wrote:it's also interesting that Transport For NSW haven't sold or voluntarily handed the shuttle service back to Parramatta council yet and they could revert the M90 back to 860 witch was the number that was used for the Liverpool to Bankstown route pre the 2006 government review witch saw it merge with ether the 485 or 486
If they revert the M90 to a different number, it definitely won’t be 860 because all routes along the M90 service area is mainly 900 series and why make this one an odd one out, most likey it would be within the 900 series
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by swtt »

Fleet Lists wrote:This does not seem any different from one archived on 19th December https://web.archive.org/web/20191219005 ... 200105.pdf
The one I looked at was well before the 19/12 edition. I think my previous comments elsewhere was that it was way too infrequent even in the peaks (15-20 min peak?) but it seems to be fixed by 19/12?

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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by boronia »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: it's also interesting that Transport For NSW haven't sold or voluntarily handed the shuttle service back to Parramatta council yet and they could revert the M90 back to 860 witch was the number that was used for the Liverpool to Bankstown route pre the 2006 government review witch saw it merge with ether the 485 or 486
What is the connection between these two events?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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Absolutely none - totally off subject.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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swtt wrote:
Fleet Lists wrote:This does not seem any different from one archived on 19th December https://web.archive.org/web/20191219005 ... 200105.pdf
The one I looked at was well before the 19/12 edition. I think my previous comments elsewhere was that it was way too infrequent even in the peaks (15-20 min peak?) but it seems to be fixed by 19/12?

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That must have been from somewhere other than Transport Info as the 19 December version was the first one issued there.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Michael Bamborough »

Stu wrote:New route for Parramatta's free shuttle.
Transdev route 900.

http://parramattalightrail.nsw.gov.au/n ... ee-shuttle
Okay why are they altering the Route 900 free shuttle service to not go via Parramatta Station Anymore?? That's like the Most Important Destination in Parramatta Here, Having not only major direct connections to Bus & Train services, But also to the Westfield Shopping Mall As Well. Who thought this would be a good idea and why!?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by neilrex »

exactly right, if I wanted to walk halfway from the station to the north bank to catch the bus, you might as well keep on walking.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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The reason for the change is obviously for the 900 to avoid Macquarie Street where the Light Rail is going to be built but the result as stated above seems very unsatisfactory.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by stupid_girl »

Fleet Lists wrote:The reason for the change is obviously for the 900 to avoid Macquarie Street where the Light Rail is going to be built but the result as stated above seems very unsatisfactory.
Then, the free route can be scrapped due to declining patronage. :twisted:
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Michael Bamborough »

Michael Bamborough wrote:
Stu wrote:New route for Parramatta's free shuttle.
Transdev route 900.

http://parramattalightrail.nsw.gov.au/n ... ee-shuttle
Okay why are they altering the Route 900 free shuttle service to not go via Parramatta Station Anymore?? That's like the Most Important Destination in Parramatta Here, Having not only major direct connections to Bus & Train services, But also to the Westfield Shopping Mall As Well. Who thought this would be a good idea and why!?
Wait i just realised. This service was already changed to not travel directly via Parramatta station anymore. Currently Travel's via Macquarie Street but soon it'll travel via George street instead and thus the service will be even further away from parramatta station This is still dumb. Why not just have the service go via Parramatta Station/Westfield station instead. Are you telling nobody uses this Free service to travel there?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

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the November 2017 timetable on the Transdev website shows it operating along Macquarie so it must be at least 2 years that it has operated like that. I cant recall what route it followed past the station if it ever did so.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by 745-Castle Hill »

It used to be from Macquarie St at Arthur Phillip HS (L) Smith St (R) Darcy St - Parramatta Station (R) Argyle St - Westfield Parramatta (R) Marsden St (L) Macquarie St then current route.

The route was changed when Darcy St was closed for the Parramatta Square project with the justification that Macquarie St was close enough to the station and using the Argyle St Bus Interchange would add too much time to the route and therefore decrease frequency.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Fleet Lists »

Thanks I did find a brochure pre February 2017 showing that route https://web.archive.org/web/20160315171 ... nt/900.pdf
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Will this light rail make the section of Church street between Macquarie and George tram only If it is then the government would just be reclosing the same section of Church street that Parramatta council only reopened for one way though traffic something like 10 or 15 years ago
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