Inner West Light Rail observations

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Linto63
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Linto63 »

boronia wrote: If there are capacity problems, why would they opt for shorter sets?
Most of the stops are only able to accommodate trams of the same length as the CAF Urbos presently used, so unlikely longer trams as used on the CBD&SE line will be procured as that will require a platform lengthening program. With peak frequencies only scheduled to increase to every 6 minutes, capacity (as in headways) won't be a problem.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

The current Urbos is 32.9m, individual Citadis on the CSELR are 33m. Can they order a Citadis that’s the same length as the current Urbos and has the compatible wheel profile? And then preferably also the double door arrangement in the second and fourth modules as the CSELR’s Citadis?
Linto63 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:58 am While an open tender, it probably is CAF's to lose.
I really hope so, it’s about time the Inner West Light Rail line got decent trams again since they got rid of the Variotrams, sorry, really not a fan of the existing Urbos, but I very much do like the Citadis we have on the other line and hope that’s what they go with. There’s already recent precedent for mixed fleet operation on the IWLR, so hopefully that’s also taken into account
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Linto63 »

Jurassic wrote:The current Urbos is 32.9m, individual Citadis on the CSELR are 33m.
My bad, thought the Urbos were a bit shorter than the Citadis. :oops:
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Honestly, I dont mind the Urbos 3s but i much prefer the Citadis. But I can only see TfNSW going for CAFs built to the EXACT same spec this time round. It only makes sense I guess.
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boronia
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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It would be nice to have a mixed fleet, the same tram everyday gets a bit boring.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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boronia wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:04 pm It would be nice to have a mixed fleet, the same tram everyday gets a bit boring.
Would a Leyland 0680 powered tram make it better for ya?
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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And whilst this is the next generations problem, if you decide to replace them all at once down the track, how do you have storage capacity both for old and new at the same time?
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Replacing all at once would still involve staggered deliveries over a period. There would be some buffer storage capacity at Lilyfield maintenance depot where the old sets could be held for quick decommissioning and disposal. The long lead time for new deliveries would give plenty of opportunity to arrange for the old ones.

The Varios were stored off side for a while pending "sale" a few years ago, although it would have been an expensive exercise to relocate them.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by 3805 »

I wonder whether it would still be possible to tow them through the rail network to somewhere like Chullora for decommissioning, storage or scrapping?
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Artificial reef off Wamberal to stir up nimbys there.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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3805 wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:39 am I wonder whether it would still be possible to tow them through the rail network to somewhere like Chullora for decommissioning, storage or scrapping?
There are no connections to the rail network.
Much easier to drive/tow them onto a trailer in Hay St and take them anywhere.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

But also, if we look at the governments track record, eg, Waratah Series 2 plus persisting with CAF for Newcastle and Parramatta, I think its sadly more likely we will get Urbos "Series 2" where the sole differences with the current ones are the interior lighting is updated to a different colour and perhaps new internal passenger info screens. And maybe, just for laughs, a bold new shade of paint to differentiate it from the current Urbos. I could see that happening. But Alstom is still in the game, and I hope they get it. I agree with Boronia a mixed fleet is much more interesting and I miss the 2014-2015 days of the IWLR.

Meanwhile, I note the half hourly overnight services on the IWLR short running, between Central and the Casino are still suspended. Since March, and lockdown was now many months ago. Is there any indication as to when they're coming back or even what criteria must be met for these overnight services to return?
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Have The Star opening hours reverted to normal yet?
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boronia
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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moa999 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:55 am And the X05s already run over part of the IWLR track to reach the heave maintenance depot.

It had been reported though that the can't be used in service due to accessibility requirements (the platforms would need to be adjusted)
The XO5s can use the L1 tracks, but they are restricted because of the variations in track/wheel profiles. It would not be practical to run them in service.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Swift »

boronia wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:15 pm
moa999 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:55 am And the X05s already run over part of the IWLR track to reach the heave maintenance depot.

It had been reported though that the can't be used in service due to accessibility requirements (the platforms would need to be adjusted)
The XO5s can use the L1 tracks, but they are restricted because of the variations in track/wheel profiles. It would not be practical to run them in service.
So platforms a factor as well or not?
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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With an estimated cost of $40 million, or $10 million each, TfNSW must be planning on buying trams made out of gold, seeing that it purchased six Urbos for $3.5 million each in 2012.
1whoknows wrote: And whilst this is the next generations problem, if you decide to replace them all at once down the track, how do you have storage capacity both for old and new at the same time?
If there was not capacity to stow both old and new fleets and there were reasons preventing both operating simultaneously, the whole line would close with all the old stock removed with the new stock then delivered.
boronia wrote: Replacing all at once would still involve staggered deliveries over a period. There would be some buffer storage capacity at Lilyfield maintenance depot where the old sets could be held for quick decommissioning and disposal. The long lead time for new deliveries would give plenty of opportunity to arrange for the old ones.
IIRC, when some the Urbos were delivered, rather than leaving empty the low-loader would than load a Variotram. But this is all a moot point, there has been no indication that any of the existing stock will be replaced, just four more trams added.
3805 wrote: I wonder whether it would still be possible to tow them through the rail network to somewhere like Chullora for decommissioning, storage or scrapping?
Aside from the light rail network having no connections to the rail network as already mentioned, while both have the same 1435mm gauge, different wheel profiles mean trams could only move on the RailCorp network at a snail's pace, if at all. Then there would be the need for barrier vehicle to be configured and other possible loading gauge problems. Basically much less faffing around to just do it as a wide load by road.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Linto63 wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:07 pm With an estimated cost of $40 million, or $10 million each, TfNSW must be planning on buying trams made out of gold, seeing that it [url=https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/newsro ... l-vehicles]
What on earth? That's just ridiculous! they've barley improved since 2012 and they've tripled in price???? get some decent trams than TfNSW!! I honestly thought they just brought the CAFs because they were cheap!
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Imagine the amount of buses you could get for one tram.
At least pick up the pace if you're going to splurge staggering amounts like that. 70km/h in the shared zone on George should compensate.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Wait so the trams were really packed in 2015/16 during the Opal card runs and they have only just announced intention to start a procurement process five years later near the end of 2020? :shock: :roll: Thank god they have the pandemic to thank to even out those overcrowding stats
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Swift wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:28 pm Imagine the amount of buses you could get for one tram.
You make it sound like a benefit. That's exactly the problem that reintroduction of trams is designed to solve (plus efficient passenger-friendly design, which eludes the bus sector here). Dropping the Olympic Park branch of the Parramatta light rail, for example, means that three buses (assuming double deck as announced) and three drivers will be needed to replace one tram and one driver.

When the original CAFs were ordered, the government spin doctors announced that were to cost only $2 million each. That was to justify the decision to dispose of the Variotrams. Knowing that price was too low for a CAF, I contacted my friend who worked in one of the European tram manufacturers and he went off and checked. Their cost was in fact $4 million each.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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tonyp wrote: Dropping the Olympic Park branch of the Parramatta light rail, for example, means that three buses (assuming double deck as announced) and three drivers will be needed to replace one tram and one driver.
The additional operational costs will be a drop in the ocean compared to how much would have been piddled up the wall building a tram line with questionable demand.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Staff at Central L1 this afternoon giving out free masks to passengers (and anyone else who happened to walk past).
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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boronia wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:55 pm Staff at Central L1 this afternoon giving out free masks to passengers (and anyone else who happened to walk past).
After the hotel in Darling Harbour testing positive. Oh my.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by gilberations »

Linto63 wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:01 pm
tonyp wrote: Dropping the Olympic Park branch of the Parramatta light rail, for example, means that three buses (assuming double deck as announced) and three drivers will be needed to replace one tram and one driver.
The additional operational costs will be a drop in the ocean compared to how much would have been piddled up the wall building a tram line with questionable demand.
Considering the high density housing going into the area and the regular road traffic concerns, I’d actually say Lightrail would be preferable to a bus in that area, just maybe not quite how originally envisioned. For example, if I were to design the route, having lived in the area, this is what I would do.

Start at Rydalmere WSU, cut through the industrial area and travel along Victoria Rd to River Rd, Turn Right and head down, with a bridge built at the same location as the Silverwater Road Bridge, then utilize the busway to cut across to Holker St, crossing over along a new corridor to Newington Marketplace, then down Newington Blvd, John Ian Wing Pde, Hill Rd, Pondage Link, Olympic Bvd, Dawn Frazier, cutting in front of the station to cross to Murray Rose, continuing to Benalong, right into The Piazza, Stromboli to Hill, to Wharf, then confusing back to Bridge St, then use existing bus bridge, R Shoreline, L Rider, R Mary/Walker, end at Mill Park. Possible extension option to Top Ryde via Meadowbank. Stops located at: Park Rd, Kirby St, Ermington Shops, Seamist Ave (possibly elevated on bridge), Dooleys, Holker St, Newington Marketplace, Louis Ave, Newington Public School, Superdome, Olympic Park Station, The Piazza, Baywater Dr, Olympic Park Wharf (Which should be renamed wentworth point but that’s another discussion), FootBridge Bvd and Waterways St, Rhodes Foreshore Park, Lewis Ave, Rhodes Shopping Centre, Rhodes Station, Nina Grey Ave, Mill Park
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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gilberations wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:03 am
Linto63 wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:01 pm The additional operational costs will be a drop in the ocean compared to how much would have been piddled up the wall building a tram line with questionable demand.
Considering the high density housing going into the area and the regular road traffic concerns, I’d actually say Lightrail would be preferable to a bus in that area, just maybe not quite how originally envisioned. For example, if I were to design the route, having lived in the area, this is what I would do.

Start at Rydalmere WSU, cut through the industrial area and travel along Victoria Rd to River Rd, Turn Right and head down, with a bridge built at the same location as the Silverwater Road Bridge, then utilize the busway to cut across to Holker St, crossing over along a new corridor to Newington Marketplace, then down Newington Blvd, John Ian Wing Pde, Hill Rd, Pondage Link, Olympic Bvd, Dawn Frazier, cutting in front of the station to cross to Murray Rose, continuing to Benalong, right into The Piazza, Stromboli to Hill, to Wharf, then confusing back to Bridge St, then use existing bus bridge, R Shoreline, L Rider, R Mary/Walker, end at Mill Park. Possible extension option to Top Ryde via Meadowbank. Stops located at: Park Rd, Kirby St, Ermington Shops, Seamist Ave (possibly elevated on bridge), Dooleys, Holker St, Newington Marketplace, Louis Ave, Newington Public School, Superdome, Olympic Park Station, The Piazza, Baywater Dr, Olympic Park Wharf (Which should be renamed wentworth point but that’s another discussion), FootBridge Bvd and Waterways St, Rhodes Foreshore Park, Lewis Ave, Rhodes Shopping Centre, Rhodes Station, Nina Grey Ave, Mill Park
The IWLR is the L1 Dulwich Hill line. You are discussing the Parramatta line.
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