CBD & South East Light Rail

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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Swift
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Swift »

Is the proposed interchange at Kingsford shops or Juniors Kingsford? I went to continue to Maroubra after catching the tram to JK and it the lights to cross Anzac Pde took forever and I ended up crossing against the red signal as it's a one way roadway with no vehicles in sight coming down. Then it was a fair distance to the bus stop there. I would advise to get off at UNSW to interchange with buses at the moment.
Let me get this straight, are they proposing to let some buses drive along the tracks between Kingsford and Kensington? If so, will they drive off and on them at intersections or specific gaps in the cement borders?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by hornetfig »

Swift wrote:Let me get this straight, are they proposing to let some buses drive along the tracks between Kingsford and Kensington? If so, will they drive off and on them at intersections or specific gaps in the cement borders?
There are specific gaps.

I can't see it ever being used because of how much of a mess the traffic signals are for trams.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by tonyp »

Yes, OK for trams to be stuffed up by lights but not OK for buses apparently.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

hornetfig wrote:
Swift wrote:Let me get this straight, are they proposing to let some buses drive along the tracks between Kingsford and Kensington? If so, will they drive off and on them at intersections or specific gaps in the cement borders?
There are specific gaps.

I can't see it ever being used because of how much of a mess the traffic signals are for trams.
There are some gaps in the kerb, but I doubt buses would be actually using them under normal circumstances; there is too much risk to other traffic in trying to change. There is one 'exit" for inbound services approaching Allison Rd, but it is into a dedicated bus lane.

The B traffic signals seem to mimic the normal traffic signals, except where there might be a conflict with traffic turning across the tracks. Unlike the trams the B lights do not need the presence of a bus to activate them.

It will be too bad if an express bus gets stuck behind an all stops and traffic light restricted tram.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by tonyp »

boronia wrote: It will be too bad if an express bus gets stuck behind an all stops and traffic light restricted tram.
This will be where the much-vaunted ability of buses to overtake comes into play ;)
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by hornetfig »

tonyp wrote:Yes, OK for trams to be stuffed up by lights but not OK for buses apparently.
boronia wrote:It will be too bad if an express bus gets stuck behind an all stops and traffic light restricted tram.
This is what I mean. Any bus on the tramway will eventually catch up to a tram and then it's stuck on the slow boat to China.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by tonyp »

Ironically it's the exact opposite with buses sharing tramways in Europe. There they're concerned about buses holding up the trams. That's why the buses have three, four or five doors ( and the trams don't spare the horses). Another ideal of CSELR goes down the gurgler. I think the High St shared lane is not used by buses after all either(?).
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Frosty »

^ From memory the eastbound High St shared lane isn't used by any route buses as all eastbound route buses towards Randwick use Barker St.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

I understood they will revert to High St when the new route changes come in.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

On a L3 out of the city this afternoon, it was difficult find an empty seat complying with the distancing rules.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Swift »

Sydney hoomans don't like you sitting next to them regardless, especially women -but men too so this doesn't feel much different really.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

After 6 weeks of travelling almost alone on this service, a crowd is somewhat of a shock!
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by J_Busworth »

boronia wrote:I understood they will revert to High St when the new route changes come in.
Yes, my understanding is that it is still intended to have routes 348, 370, 400 and 400N use the shared section once the belated network changes are finally introduced.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by swtt »

J_Busworth wrote:
boronia wrote:I understood they will revert to High St when the new route changes come in.
Yes, my understanding is that it is still intended to have routes 348, 370, 400 and 400N use the shared section once the belated network changes are finally introduced.
With the physical distancing measures just announced this morning, methinks these will be further delayed to buoy up capacity available.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by tonyp »

It would have been sensible to commission the bus stops at Kingsford interchange and Avoca and High St (inward) to give people an opportunity to interchange to and from more spacious trams - if they didn't mind the slower journey. It might also provide some useful feedback on what proportion of commuters actually want to do this.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by moa999 »

Agreed if you make it difficult for people to transfer, the only thing you will prove is that even more people don't like transfers.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

Had an interesting observation today of tram priority at traffic lights:

I was driving south along Anzac Pde Kensington. I had to stop at the lights at Todman Ave to make r/h turn. There was a tram in the stop. As I pulled up I noticed the T light go amber, then red. I was expecting the tram to have to sit out the full cycle for the next white T, but after just a few seconds it went white again and the tram proceeded on its way.

On the other hand, yesterday on an inbound service we sat at the Dowling St crossing for about 10-12 seconds waiting for the T light, as we crossed I noticed there wasn't a car in sight in either side in the southbound lanes.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by J_Busworth »

Trams seem to have traffic light priority at the Lang/Cleveland intersection again today.

In both directions on my 373 from Randwick (no way would I catch the tram whilst my superior bus service is still running :D ), the light changed from green in both directions on Anzac and the busroad, to green to allow for cars to turn right from Anzac into Lang. Both times, as a tram departed the Moore Park stop heading for Randwick, the right turn from Anzac into Lang went red and Anzac in both directions, the busroad and the tram got the green, seemingly skipping Lang/Cleveland in the cycle. Perfect example of a tram actually getting traffic light priority.

Very good for my bus (and the tram), not so good for the traffic banking up along Cleveland.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by hornetfig »

It doesn't skip - after the tram leaves, the next phase is Cleveland right into Anzac. But it's shortened to maintain synchronisation. So it lets about 3 cars through per lane. Before COVID-19, this causes Cleveland St to queue back past South Dowling St down into Surry Hills. You don't want to be on a 372 or 393.

The problem is exacerbated by all the dead time in a tram phase (10 seconds of empty intersection).

Because Cleveland right into Anzac is non-conflicting with the tram, the issue could be addressed by having this movement green when the priority tram phase is inserted, instead of Anzac Pde straight through.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

I've made quite a few trips, and the phasing seems to be somewhat random. One day's run can be completely different to the previous trip.

Also I have been observing a few intersections, and there are different responses each time.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by rogf24 »

Considering French tramways has been a big theme of this thread, it's interesting to point out that the French is at it again trying to re-invent the tram this time in the UK.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by matthewg »

rogf24 wrote:Considering French tramways has been a big theme of this thread, it's interesting to point out that the French is at it again trying to re-invent the tram this time in the UK.
https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/l ... ck-system/
The British are trying again to invent a low-cost track system.
Trampower's LR55 low profile rail was the result of previous research and appears to have little commercial success.

Trampower also gained R&D funding to build a low-cost tram 'City Class' tram who's only prototype to ever run on a proper tramway subsequently caught on fire before it could be approved to actually carry passengers.

Maybe this time, by involving a French company, they can run off with the fruits of the research and actually get it deployed somewhere?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Swift »

Pommie engineering :lol: . At least they can make decent jet engines -they can't afford not to :shock:
Global w̶a̶r̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ hoax.
With the left in charge the future is doomed.
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NSW will never reach the level of greatness under Wran ever again.
hornetfig
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by hornetfig »

Central to Moore Park shuttles running from next Monday, 25 May to service the Moore Park carpark. They'll run 10am - 7pm, for some reason.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by mubd »

Guessing the current AM peak timetable is at the point of saturation, so they can only bring in extra trams from 10am onwards.
Eastgardens to Kingsford is a 1-2 section fare.
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