Opal Discussion and Observations

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
matthewg
Posts: 1704
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by matthewg »

Since it's physically impossible to convert the entire bus fleet on one day, the only option to 'stop the inequities' over a partially rolled out Opal would be to stall the go live till all 5000+ buses are fitted. Then there would be a whole pile of other rants about perfectly functional looking Opal readers that you can't use on buses for months!. (Rather like what happened with the staged rail roll out).

I gather there are still issues with the mobile equipment. It's overly dependent on a decent GPS lock. This isn't always available in urban areas. They do apparently have a fall back to odometry but the calibration needs more work.
User avatar
TheOpalUser
Posts: 902
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:13 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by TheOpalUser »

matthewg wrote: I gather there are still issues with the mobile equipment. It's overly dependent on a decent GPS lock. This isn't always available in urban areas. They do apparently have a fall back to odometry but the calibration needs more work.
The dead reckoning hasn't been too bad in my experience as a passenger while riding the 594 and the 333.
Posts and comments made here are my own personal opinions, and not on behalf of my employer.
Bus_fellow
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:47 am

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Bus_fellow »

Tallewang wrote:
There's an easy solution to that 'outrage' - just don't release Opal cards for tertiary students yet.
Students with jobs, and overseas students, are a large proportion of students, and they don't get concessions, do they ? They'd be using regular Opal cards.

And a lot of them are on limited budgets, so would be keen to get onto the supposed savings with Opal, and don't have cars so rely on public transport to get around, and have active social lives, and, being young, tend to be early adopters of new tech.

If I was a student again, I'd be quite annoyed if the buses on Broadway took Opal and the buses on City Road didn't, for anything longer than a very brief transitional period.
My point was that if an Opal card for tertiary students is not yet available, that is what people would get upset about, not which routes it is available on. Organisations like the National Union of Students or the relevant SRCs are very unlikely to pick up any fuss over the specific routes on which Opal is available when there is this much larger outstanding issue. Since these organisations primarily represent domestic, full-time, internal students (who are the ones eligible for a concession), there is minimal risk of there being any 'outrage' on behalf of international or part time students.

Also, the smarter among them might figure out that a smart card base system makes it much easier to enforce the existing eligibility criteria and minimise over-riding, which is likely to have a much bigger financially impact on students than any other aspects of Opal (albeit only on those who are breaking the rules).
matthewg
Posts: 1704
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by matthewg »

Bus_fellow wrote:
Also, the smarter among them might figure out that a smart card base system makes it much easier to enforce the existing eligibility criteria and minimise over-riding, which is likely to have a much bigger financially impact on students than any other aspects of Opal (albeit only on those who are breaking the rules).
And in the context of Sydney Uni students who might find Paramatta Rd buses Opal enabled before City Rd, or vs, well they probably won't get their Opal concession cards till next year at the earliest anyway. The Uni's not going to get involved issuing new cards mid term.

Sydney Uni re-issues it's student cards every year and for many students the transport concession is printed on the card, it's not a sticker added later.

There are some interesting technical issues with Usyd issuing a combined student / opal / transport concession card, as the Uni has a deal with a bank (The student cards are Visa Debit cards) and they also are building access cards (MiFare based system).
Back in the TCard era before the co-branding deal with NAB and the building access control system migrating to MiFare, they did issue a combine student ID/concession/tcard one year.
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

To be honest I don't think the powers will care about Parramatta Rd being activated before City Rd, or when concessions are issued.
It is a rollout and it will be done in the way they decide is most appropriate.

Reality is a fair chunk of students (both UNSW and USyd) will be catching both train and bus so will be much better off on MyMulti until the rollout is fully complete on the bus network.

--

A bigger issue for Opal for International Students given they presently only get a discount for the long-dated periodicals, which seemingly are going the way of the dodo with Opal.
I wonder whether we might see International Students get say a 20% discount, versus the 50% discount for local students.

--

Noted a number of 21xx and 22xx buses from W travelling non-announced routes that still had the white Datafare machines and no Opal stickers, so as predicted it appears that only selected buses at W were completed over the weekend.
User avatar
jpp42
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:27 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by jpp42 »

matthewg wrote:
And in the context of Sydney Uni students who might find Paramatta Rd buses Opal enabled before City Rd, or vs, well they probably won't get their Opal concession cards till next year at the earliest anyway. The Uni's not going to get involved issuing new cards mid term.

Sydney Uni re-issues it's student cards every year and for many students the transport concession is printed on the card, it's not a sticker added later.
Rode the train to Campbelltown yesterday and witnessed transport officers ticketing some Sydney Uni students for not having renewed their cards as you mention. They were being really dodgy with the officers about their current address. I'm sure there's a huge amount of fraud in this area and I'm happy with them taking the time to work out all the details on this before rushing into it. Magnetic tickets are still here.
matthewg wrote: Back in the TCard era before the co-branding deal with NAB and the building access control system migrating to MiFare, they did issue a combine student ID/concession/tcard one year.
Curious about this - I thought the Tcards were only issued to school students on Kingsgrove depot buses. What trials were done with Uni students?
matthewg
Posts: 1704
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by matthewg »

jpp42 wrote: Rode the train to Campbelltown yesterday and witnessed transport officers ticketing some Sydney Uni students for not having renewed their cards as you mention. They were being really dodgy with the officers about their current address.
The 2014 student cards/concessions have been issued - any one trying to present last years is 'trying something on'. The cards have photos on them so they can't be lending them to friends.

A full time student who becomes part time is supposed to surrender their concession and if necessary get their student card re-issued. I bet they don't :-) But an RPO checking concessions wouldn't know the holders enrolment status. (But that may be one reason why they present last years student card instead of their current one).

All students WILL have a current student ID card, they can't get into their exams with out one!.

The partial concession for international fee paying students will be 'interesting'. :-)
jpp42 wrote:
matthewg wrote: Back in the TCard era before the co-branding deal with NAB and the building access control system migrating to MiFare, they did issue a combine student ID/concession/tcard one year.
Curious about this - I thought the Tcards were only issued to school students on Kingsgrove depot buses. What trials were done with Uni students?
I doubt any were ever 'activated'. The student card had the green T card logo on one corner. I wasn't actively collecting and fiddling with NFC chips at that point or I would have nabbed one or two for 'testing'.
Last edited by matthewg on Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
CityRail
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:23 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by CityRail »

matthewg wrote:A full time student who becomes part time is supposed to surrender their concession and if necessary get their student card re-issued. I bet they don't :-) But an RPO checking concessions wouldn't know the holders enrolment status. (But that may be one reason why they present last years student card instead of their current one).
True. And uni centres are even encouraging part time students to get concession by enrolling subjects they don't want then withdraw them by census date so they can use the concession card.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by boronia »

My wife goes to TAFE for 4 hours Mon-Thu and 4 hours every second Friday. I don't know whether this is cnsidered full or part time, but she does have a transport student concession card.

One thing we don't understand is that a child can get a half fare off-peak fare, but a concession holder can't.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
hornetfig
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:24 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by hornetfig »

boronia wrote:One thing we don't understand is that a child can get a half fare off-peak fare, but a concession holder can't.
I don't think it's possible to understand the NSW railways concession fare arcana. Every other mode of transport: simple. Railways: nightmare of unimaginable proportions.
gld59
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:30 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by gld59 »

Bjwh86 wrote:There's a weird thing that happens at the station barriers when tapping on/off which happened to almost everyone tapping off at Blacktown as I went through this morning.
When a person tapped off, the display said, "tap off invalid-use only one card" and then would show the tap off amount and barriers would open.

Has this happened to anyone else?
There's a similar effect sometimes with PayWave/PayPass cards and CabCharge terminals, where the terminal has a dummy-spit for about half a second and then the transaction goes through. It seems to be more common with certain brands of card (CommBank, I think?). It may happen with a few cards in a row, and then not at all for several days. :roll:

"Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."

gld

edit: add quote marks to (unattributed) quote to indicate it's not mine.
Last edited by gld59 on Thu May 01, 2014 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
CityRail
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:23 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by CityRail »

3343 running on 326 today does not have Opal active. What a shame.

It is still covered with testing labels and closed on the screens. :evil:
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

Did 3343 have the Wayfarer machine though?
User avatar
captainch
Posts: 4629
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:37 am
Favourite Vehicle: was 3533 m/o 687
Location: INGHAM NTH QLD.GODS COUNTRY

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by captainch »

i'vw given up asking so many govt depts about what happens to free transport for vetrans is it going to be canned and we have to get a $2.50 pet ticket each day..............no one is saying it will be a potical back lash if thats true as vets are paid by federal govt and the transport part is paid by feds to state gov't ive been told to get a opal card now as our train line is opal but we still get free travel till end of year no body will say what happens after that! :roll: :roll: :oops:
"CAPTAIN.C.H "Lives in the home of "SUGAR CANE' not "chickens" :lol: :lol:.........."INGHAM NTH QLD"
mubd
Posts: 1024
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:42 am

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by mubd »

I'm pretty sure they would want to avoid such backlash. Don't worry for now, wait until the end of the Opal rollout and the beginning of the removal of magnetic ticketing.
Eastgardens to Kingsford is a 1-2 section fare.
User avatar
TheOpalUser
Posts: 902
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:13 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by TheOpalUser »

captainch wrote:i'vw given up asking so many govt depts about what happens to free transport for vetrans is it going to be canned and we have to get a $2.50 pet ticket each day..............no one is saying it will be a potical back lash if thats true as vets are paid by federal govt and the transport part is paid by feds to state gov't ive been told to get a opal card now as our train line is opal but we still get free travel till end of year no body will say what happens after that! :roll: :roll: :oops:
Couldn't you get a replacement card today and then you're right to go for the next three years? http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/content ... ransspouse
What usually happens when your veteran pass expires - do you simply fill out the same form and get another pass back?
Posts and comments made here are my own personal opinions, and not on behalf of my employer.
User avatar
CityRail
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:23 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by CityRail »

3344 has datafare machine, Opal not active and we now seeing it running a 361! :evil:

On that note, I saw 380 using an Opal bus.

What a mess!
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

Well at least people aren't expecting Opal on that route
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by boxythingy »

Students regardless of employment status have both been elegible for concessions for a while now...
Also, I was employed for a period of time but was never asked if I had a job when transit officers seldomly checked my ticket...
Bus_fellow
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:47 am

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Bus_fellow »

captainch wrote:i'vw given up asking so many govt depts about what happens to free transport for vetrans is it going to be canned and we have to get a $2.50 pet ticket each day..............no one is saying it will be a potical back lash if thats true as vets are paid by federal govt and the transport part is paid by feds to state gov't ive been told to get a opal card now as our train line is opal but we still get free travel till end of year no body will say what happens after that! :roll: :roll: :oops:
Why would the state government bring itself a world of political pain to take free travel away from a group that would probably be shrinking rapidly, since Australia hasn't been in any major wars recently? Especially when it would likely only shift the pass holders to a Senior/Pensioner Opal card? It just wouldn't be worth the trouble, and it wouldn't make any sense given the recent extension of these passes to cover light rail.

I would bet that this is simply another example of the drip-feed approach to announcements about Opal. They will announce arrangements for disabled veterans when they are good and ready, which probably means next year.

And for the record, this benefit is not funded by the commonwealth - the pensions are, but the free travel passes are state funded.
User avatar
captainch
Posts: 4629
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:37 am
Favourite Vehicle: was 3533 m/o 687
Location: INGHAM NTH QLD.GODS COUNTRY

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by captainch »

since Australia hasn't been in any major wars recently?

And for the record, this benefit is not funded by the commonwealth - the pensions are, but the free travel passes are state funded.[/quote]
there will be a lot of war service vetrans for many years to come most vietnam vets are 70 and then we have east timor vets followed by iraq than afganistan and then a lot of peace keepers the ferderal govt gives money to the state government to assist with free travel for vets! :shock:
"CAPTAIN.C.H "Lives in the home of "SUGAR CANE' not "chickens" :lol: :lol:.........."INGHAM NTH QLD"
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Fleet Lists »

Yes I agree with bus_fellow - let us wait until it is officially announced which I expect will be favourable to the veterans concerned.

Opal is a major exercise which, if all announced and implemented at the one time, would cause even more confusion and likely software glitches which they are trying to avoid at all costs.
Living in the Shire.
Route548
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:09 am
Location: NRQ or MQP depending on how geeky you want to be

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Route548 »

CityRail wrote:3344 has datafare machine, Opal not active and we now seeing it running a 361! :evil:

On that note, I saw 380 using an Opal bus.

What a mess!
Its a staged roll out so don't get your knickers twisted mate.

Before you ask the question, the schedule of fit outs is not for public release so you will just have to wait and see (or wait, whinge, then wait again).
I am the herring-slapper everyone fears (well not really but still....)
User avatar
CityRail
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:23 pm

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by CityRail »

But route 361 has been announced to roll out today.

Running a non-Opal bus there simply creating chaos to passengers.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Fleet Lists »

It has also been stated that it may be done over a two week period so please stop panicking. Have you ever tried to organise anything of this size? Obviously not or you would not be writing things like this.
Living in the Shire.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”