Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

[tonyp]

I too hate station names like Southern Cross with no reference to locality.

But that does have a reference to a locality:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_ ... _Australia



That makes the point about the importance of having a locality or feature (e.g. park, plaza, commercial centre) adjacent to the stop, otherwise the name is meaningless.

[boronia]

Taken to the extreme, even names like Town Hall, Museum, St James, can be meaningless. How many town halls, museums, churches, are there in Sydney?

[tonyp]

Taken to the extreme, even names like Town Hall, Museum, St James, can be meaningless. How many town halls, museums, churches, are there in Sydney?

In the Sydney context, they relate to nearby notable buildings. Gadigal and (Melbourne) Southern Cross relate to nothing in their vicinity. It's like we're entering an age of idiocy where, instead of helping people to go where they want to go, we now name public transport stops on the whims of social fashionistas (who also probably don't use public transport).

[boxythingy]

Was it foolish for them to name two stations called Wynyard and Vineyard which sound similar yet on total opposite sides of the city?

Why name stations like North Sydney or Bexley North and leave people thinking where the West, East or South versions of the stations are? Can we also get consistency on whether the direction comes first or last?

Should the direction be an adverb, e.g. Northern Sydney so it makes grammatical sense?

Where are the hills east of East Hills? Where is the actual Bardwell Park in Bardwell Park?

Don't even get me started on St Marys, St James, St Leonards, these are very strange street names

[Stu]

Was it foolish for them to name two stations called Wynyard and Vineyard which sound similar yet on total opposite sides of the city?

Why name stations like North Sydney or Bexley North and leave people thinking where the West, East or South versions of the stations are? Can we also get consistency on whether the direction comes first or last?

Should the direction be an adverb, e.g. Northern Sydney so it makes grammatical sense?

Where are the hills east of East Hills? Where is the actual Bardwell Park in Bardwell Park?

Don't even get me started on St Marys, St James, St Leonards, these are very strange street names

Regarding Vineyard and Wynyard, I think that only a German tourist could become confused

Bardwell Park is not as simple as it sounds.
Bardwell Park was named after a free settler named Thomas Hill Bardwell who was given a land grant which was bounded by Wolli Creek, Dowling Street and Wollongong Road.

The meaning of word 'park' is an old word, recorded in history as Old French ‘parc’ and from Medieval Latin to mean an enclosure‘parricus'.


East Hills was the name of a large area of land South of Bankstown, the land was granted to George Johnstone in 1804 and was bounded by The River Rd towards the East and the Georges River towards the South. There was a tenant on this property who had a farm that he called 'East Hills'.

In 1828 Thomas Graham received a land grant, this land was West of George Johnstone's land and was sold a number of times and eventually sub divided. This is when the suburb of East Hills came about in 1893.

Between East Hills (George's River) and Padstow (Salt Pan Creek) there are small hills in an East West orientation. Both the road and train line follow this geography, although the train line geography has cuttings to ensure that the gradients are not steep. East Hills to Panania is relatively flat with only one minor Hill in Park Rd near East Hills Station. There are pitches in hills which have been exploited by engineers to create bridges over the train line with no impact to the gradient of the roads: Marco Ave & Weston St linked by Carson St bridge (Revesby) and Doyle Rd/Badderley St (Padstow). Between these two hills the geography becomes lower, the train line crosses over The River Rd.

[matthewg]

[

Bardwell Park is not as simple as it sounds.
Bardwell Park was named after a free settler named Thomas Hill Bardwell who was given a land grant which was bounded by Wolli Creek, Dowling Street and Wollongong Road.

There is an actual suburb called Bardwell Park. And there is some remnant bushland along the 'Bardwell Valley' in which flows 'Bardwell Creek' that is on the maps as 'Bardwell Valley Parklands'. I've spent a lot of time in the last couple of months waking back and forth along the tracks in the Bardwell Valley Parklands.
So there is an actual Bardwell Park in the suburb name and an actual 'park' (in the modern sense), the suburb is is named after the landholding, not a public 'park'.

So the station name makes perfect sense as there is an actual location of that name.

Shell Harbour Junction still annoys me. It's not in Shell Harbour and it was never a junction. But apparently, it could not be simply called Shell Harbour after the suburb it serves as it isn't actually in the suburb.

I'm waiting for major businesses to want naming rights and we will get stations renamed every few years as large businesses vie for naming rights. I've lost track of the name of the local professional football field - its name seems to change every few years.

[Campbelltown busboy]

Macarthur station was originally going to be called Ambervale but the name behind the Macarthur region was picked over Ambervale witch would of still been a growing suburb when construction of the station started. So the government can name the metro stations whatever they want to

[Linto63]

Regarding Vineyard and Wynyard, I think that only a German tourist could become confused.

Ask someone of Indian background to pronounce, and there is little distinction.

I'm waiting for major businesses to want naming rights and we will get stations renamed every few years as large businesses vie for naming rights. I've lost track of the name of the local professional football field - its name seems to change every few years.

In the case of football fields, this at least generates income, but agree it is hard to keep track, grounds like Cronulla and Penrith Park seem to have a new naming rights sponsor every season.

Sydenham station in Melbourne is an example of a station that was renamed, becoming Watergardens after the local shopping centre. There were General Motors Holden named stations in both Adelaide and Melbourne, although these only really served the factories.

[Swift]

Reminds me of Hardies and Goodyears stations on the defunct Sandown branch, which ran off the Carlingford branch.

[lunchbox]

Some might be sorry we wandered off this topic!
For a transport site, here's a good one. Tram fans well know that Sydney's "Springvale" tramline, the ONLY one not named after an established suburb, served the Bunnerong Power Station. Today, "Bunnerong" is the name of a country property some 20km south of Tarago. Strangely, access to the property is via Springvale Road. Is that material for a local history PhD, or what?
871451

[Swift]

They could do a Clyburn and call it Townseum or Jamestown.

[moa999]

Update on Sydenham and surrounds
https://youtu.be/x3kGgLzQSno

[jpp42]

Shell Harbour Junction still annoys me. It's not in Shell Harbour and it was never a junction. But apparently, it could not be simply called Shell Harbour after the suburb it serves as it isn't actually in the suburb.

As long as we're being pedantic about naming here, it should be pointed out that it's "Shellharbour" not "Shell Harbour"

There is some amount of precedent for the term "Junction" being used for the location at which you change vehicles, to get to the named destination. It's a junction now, in that you get off the train there and then use some other means to reach Shellharbour, whether that be bus, private car, bicycle, whatever (probably not walking - it's several km). In Sydney, we have Bondi Junction, Maroubra Junction, Cremorne Junction etc which are all similarly named for that reason.

In country areas we have Newnes Junction and Yass Junction for similar reasons - the Junction implies that it's the closest spot on the railway to that town, not actually at that location.

Interestingly, the GNB rejected the initial proposed name of "Randwick Junction" for what is now simply the Randwick light rail stop. That's fair to me as you're already at Randwick - you don't need to change to any other vehicle to reach Randwick, which is the point of the junction naming at other locations.

[jpp42]

Was it foolish for them to name two stations called Wynyard and Vineyard which sound similar yet on total opposite sides of the city?

This brings to mind an anecdote back in the times of paper tickets. I am not originally from Australia and my accent can seem strong to some. I went to a ticket booth at Central to buy a return ticket to Berowra for some bushwalking. The fare wasn't what I anticipated, so I confirmed, "that's the fare to to Berowra, on the North Shore Line?" and the agent answered, "No, Berala is on the Bankstown Line." Took me about three goes and some spelling out to convince her, that yes, I really did mean Berowra.

[tonyp]

As long as we're being pedantic about naming here, it should be pointed out that it's "Shellharbour" not "Shell Harbour"

There is some amount of precedent for the term "Junction" being used for the location at which you change vehicles, to get to the named destination. It's a junction now, in that you get off the train there and then use some other means to reach Shellharbour, whether that be bus, private car, bicycle, whatever (probably not walking - it's several km). In Sydney, we have Bondi Junction, Maroubra Junction, Cremorne Junction etc which are all similarly named for that reason.

In country areas we have Newnes Junction and Yass Junction for similar reasons - the Junction implies that it's the closest spot on the railway to that town, not actually at that location.

Interestingly, the GNB rejected the initial proposed name of "Randwick Junction" for what is now simply the Randwick light rail stop. That's fair to me as you're already at Randwick - you don't need to change to any other vehicle to reach Randwick, which is the point of the junction naming at other locations.

There is a junction at Shellharbour - to the quarry. It's a short distance down the track at the former Dunmore but close enough I reckon to justify calling it SJ. Given that the greater Shellharbour urban area has spread as far as the station, I don't know why they just didn't call it Shellharbour. The old Dunmore was actually called Dunmore Shellharbour and it was further away from today's urban development (but not for long). Just call it Shellharbour already. I do!

"Junction" never ever meant an interchange to another mode and absolutely shouldn't. Bondi/Maroubra/Cremorne Junctions were physical junctions in the tram lines, that's the reason for their names, not interchange points. Yass Junction was the junction with the branch line to Yass. Similar with Newnes Junction iirc. The GNB would have rejected Randwick Junction because the stop is not at Randwick Junction, which is further to the north at Alison Rd. The proper way to name an interchange station would best be "Xxxx Interchange".

[boronia]

Bondi Junction seems to be commonly (officially??) referred to as "Bondi Junction Interchange" and Wickham Station has become "Newcastle Interchange". Both these locations are at the end of their respective rail lines. Perhaps Bomaderry could be "Nowra Interchange"?

But most stations have interchanges these days, where do we stop?

[tonyp]

Bondi Junction seems to be commonly (officially??) referred to as "Bondi Junction Interchange" and Wickham Station has become "Newcastle Interchange". Both these locations are at the end of their respective rail lines. Perhaps Bomaderry could be "Nowra Interchange"?

But most stations have interchanges these days, where do we stop?

Bondi Junction Interchange isn't an official or even authorised name, just one that's used by TfNSW. The official name of the railway station is Bondi Junction Railway Station. Bondi Junction is also a suburb. Newcastle Interchange is the official name of that station. "Newcastle Railway Station" is still officially the old one to the east. "Bomaderry Railway Station" is only an authorised variant. The official name is "Nowra Railway Station".

[Transtopic]

Unlike Bondi Junction, which is a separate suburb as confirmed by tonyp, the former tram Cremorne and Neutral Bay Junctions are now generally referred to as just Cremorne and Neutral Bay, which are actually suburbs closer to the harbour. Conversely, Spit Junction is still referred to as such rather than The Spit or Mosman.

[Swift]

Perhaps Bomaderry could be "Nowra Interchange"?

Or simply call it Nowra. The network maps show it as "Bomaderry (Nowra)".
Besides, I used to mix Bomaderry with Bombo when I didn't know as much about that line.

[boronia]

Unlike Bondi Junction, which is a separate suburb as confirmed by tonyp, the former tram Cremorne and Neutral Bay Junctions are now generally referred to as just Cremorne and Neutral Bay, which are actually suburbs closer to the harbour. Conversely, Spit Junction is still referred to as such rather than The Spit or Mosman.

Neutral Bay boundary extends as far north as Ernest St.

Cremorne doesn't make it as far as the harbour, 2/3 of it are north of Military Rd. Cremorne Point is the harbourside suburb.

[moa999]

And plenty of stations/ ferry wharfs arent in suburbs.
e.g all the city ones, Kings Cross

[tonyp]

And plenty of stations/ ferry wharfs arent in suburbs.
e.g all the city ones, Kings Cross

Kings X is a designated Urban Place. Multiple CBD stops in any city are typically named for some nearby feature or street, as is the case in Sydney.

[Randomness]

And plenty of stations/ ferry wharfs arent in suburbs.
e.g all the city ones, Kings Cross

Definitely with the ferries, Sydney Olympic Park ferry stop nowhere near Sydney Olympic park and with an inconvenient connection to actually get anywhere near it. No idea why they still haven’t elected to call it Wentworth Point

[Glen]

Definitely with the ferries, Sydney Olympic Park ferry stop nowhere near Sydney Olympic park and with an inconvenient connection to actually get anywhere near it. No idea why they still haven’t elected to call it Wentworth Point

I think if you search it on Google the wharf is in the suburb of Sydney Olympic Park, but only just.

[Swift]

I think if you search it on Google the wharf is in the suburb of Sydney Olympic Park, but only just.

Another Cherrybrook situation.