Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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Swift
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Swift »

I think so. Sounds like they wanted a distinct name from the existing Pennant Hills Station.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Daniel »

neilrex wrote:Chinese metros manage to have a "stand clear, doors closing" announcement, I don't see why these cant.

Instead, we get the retarded and illiterate "this metro train will end at Chatswood".
There are doors closing announcements played on the metro trains and stations.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Transtopic »

boronia wrote:And am I the only one who thinks that "this train will stop at xyz" on the Waratahs is not a positive indication that the train is actually about to stop at that station ?
No you're not alone. The announcement that "this train will stop at xyz" could mean anything, such as the next station or another further down the line. Also referring to "this train" is superfluous as you would assume that it refers to the train you're on, not some other. It should simply be "the next stop is xyz". The scary thing is that they actually pay so called communication experts to come up with these ideas.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by gld59 »

Transtopic wrote:It should simply be "the next stop is xyz".
That pretty much is the first announcement of the sequence of three on Waratahs. I think the wording is "The next station is xyz", and it happens a couple of lengths after departing the previous stop. "This train will stop at xyz" happens on approach, about when the train starts to slow down. When the doors are open, "This station is xyz".
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by boronia »

If anything, it would be more meaningful to say "the train is now arriving at xyz", maybe even "please prepare to alight".

There are another announcements that "this train will stop at a, b, c,.....".
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Swift »

Back away from the legacy trains, how long until we hear of crime on the Metro?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by bussie »

marcnut1996 wrote:Two train companies run in Singapore, both of whom operates buses as well. One is SBS Transit, subsidiary of ComfortDelGro and sister company of CDC; the other is SMRT.

SMRT has the longest history of running trains (since 1987) but only began to operate driverless trains since 2009, currently only on one line Circle Line. It will be operating another driverless line, the Thomson East Coast Line, which will open in stages starting this year. SBS Transit only started operating trains since 2003 (North East Line), and both of its lines are driverless.
Even the 1987 SMRT lines are now fully CBTC with ATO, with a driver who monitors the train and is able to take control at any time. Hong Kong is still testing out CBTC, I am of the opinion that MTR has fallen behind on technology as compared to Singapore, not surprising as property development accounts for much of MTR's profits in Hong Kong.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Daniel »

Swift wrote:Back away from the legacy trains, how long until we hear of crime on the Metro?
Who cares? Why would the situation be any different?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by matthewg »

bussie wrote: Even the 1987 SMRT lines are now fully CBTC with ATO, with a driver who monitors the train and is able to take control at any time. Hong Kong is still testing out CBTC, I am of the opinion that MTR has fallen behind on technology as compared to Singapore, not surprising as property development accounts for much of MTR's profits in Hong Kong.
Singapore started later, so had the benefit of later technology. Even the original lines were ATO, just not unattended ATO. Normally the 'operator' did little more than close the doors to restart the train. Both Singapore and Hong Kong are doing having to deal with their original lines running now near 'life expired' equipment - Hong Kong started earlier, so has older equipment.
MTRs legendary reliability and efficiency is starting to take a hit as their older lines start to drop in reliability due to older equipment.

They now have to start spending serious money on upgrades instead of posting profits.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by GazzaOak »

marcnut1996 wrote:Two train companies run in Singapore, both of whom operates buses as well. One is SBS Transit, subsidiary of ComfortDelGro and sister company of CDC; the other is SMRT.
Ahh, okay.... thought SMRT only run the trains (as the trains weren't as noticeable with logos of the company that run it) and ComfortDelGro (SBS Transit) runs taxis & buses when i visited Singapore. But now since you explained things, some are run by SBS and other SMRT.

But using CDC would probs be a better option than MTR as CDC also runs buses here (as well as Singapore experience), so they can expand here.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by GazzaOak »

Swift wrote:Back away from the legacy trains, how long until we hear of crime on the Metro?
I feel due to the openess of the train, its would be a lot more difficult to commit a crime, but as per say, its won't stop someone desperate (but there cameras everywhere and the perp will eventually get caught.)
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by tonyp »

GazzaOak wrote: I feel due to the openess of the train, its would be a lot more difficult to commit a crime, but as per say, its won't stop someone desperate (but there cameras everywhere and the perp will eventually get caught.)
Don't worry, the doors will catch anybody before they try to get away. 8)
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by CityRail »

I wonder what kind of crime would you expect on Metro?

Possibly a lot more difficult to do graffiti and smoking, but alcohol, fare evasion, or placing feets on trains are a lot easier.

There's emergency gate open button at every metro station. Press the button and your train trip is free.

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by boronia »

Placing feet on seats might be difficult unless you have very long legs, or are lucky enough to find three or four adjacent seats unoccupied.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by tonyp »

Swift wrote: My first thoughts after that was" this is like the New York Subway" with the way people are sitting opposite each other and then I looked down the rest of the train and wasn't prepared for the sight of seeing the whole train all the way down, with a seemingly endless snake of occupied perimeter seating! That was the most striking thing about the new train.
The Perth B series is exactly like this.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Swift »

Another thing I noticed was Norwest Metro station almost being on the doorstep of the Hillsong Church. I can't help wonder if any lobbying took place for the station's chosen location and even the route the line takes there? At least there should be no more T-Way shenanigans.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by tonyp »

Swift wrote:Another thing I noticed was Norwest Metro station almost being on the doorstep of the Hillsong Church. I can't help wonder if any lobbying took place for the station's chosen location and even the route the line takes there? At least there should be no more T-Way shenanigans.
There's a lot of business, retail and residential around there to justify a station on its own. Handling large event crowds is just icing on the cake.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Swift »

tonyp wrote: There's a lot of business, retail and residential around there to justify a station on its own. Handling large event crowds is just icing on the cake.
Ok, what catchment does Hills Showground offer? It's quite close to Castle Hill and can't imagine that justifying it's own station, being so close.
Yet, we have that gargantuan distance between Epping and West Penn..*cough* sorry Cherrybrook Station. this is one oddly situated (but impressive non the less) Metro line with varying inconsistent distances between stops, many not characteristic of a metro at all!
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by swtt »

Swift wrote:
tonyp wrote: There's a lot of business, retail and residential around there to justify a station on its own. Handling large event crowds is just icing on the cake.
Ok, what catchment does Hills Showground offer? It's quite close to Castle Hill and can't imagine that justifying it's own station, being so close.
Yet, we have that gargantuan distance between Epping and West Penn..*cough* sorry Cherrybrook Station. this is one oddly situated (but impressive all the same) Metro line.
To swing it right into Cherrybrook proper, would require so much more property acquisition. Plus the terrain might not warrant it?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by boronia »

Swift wrote:
tonyp wrote: There's a lot of business, retail and residential around there to justify a station on its own. Handling large event crowds is just icing on the cake.
Ok, what catchment does Hills Showground offer? It's quite close to Castle Hill and can't imagine that justifying it's own station, being so close.
Yet, we have that gargantuan distance between Epping and West Penn..*cough* sorry Cherrybrook Station. this is one oddly situated (but impressive non the less) Metro line with varying inconsistent distances between stops, many not characteristic of a metro at all!
I'm sure the "catchment" will catch up in time
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by tonyp »

Best to look at the land use planning documents to understand why stations are where they are. Where there is not much at present, there will be a lot of development coming in the future. They've also considered alignments convenient for capturing park and ride and for bus interchange. There are a number of factors inputted into the planning, not just the location of existing village centres etc. Also Showground has a large warehouse retailing precinct nearby as well. The line is adapted to the requirements of its corridor. There is no "characteristic" station spacing, nor should there be in a well planned transit system. Textbooks are only for guidance.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by rogf24 »

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by tonyp »

rogf24 wrote:
Some minor urban consolidation then. :shock:
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Transtopic »

tonyp wrote:Best to look at the land use planning documents to understand why stations are where they are. Where there is not much at present, there will be a lot of development coming in the future. They've also considered alignments convenient for capturing park and ride and for bus interchange. There are a number of factors inputted into the planning, not just the location of existing village centres etc. Also Showground has a large warehouse retailing precinct nearby as well. The line is adapted to the requirements of its corridor. There is no "characteristic" station spacing, nor should there be in a well planned transit system. Textbooks are only for guidance.
Although I don't disagree with a Showground station, for no other reason than to serve the existing surrounding community, its mooted development potential may not eventuate, at least for some years. The Hills Council has already knocked back a proposed major DA adjacent to the station because it considered it to be excessive. Add to that the current state of the property market, where there is no appetite to rush in with new developments, metro or not. The Castle Hill warehouse retailing precinct is too far away from Showground station to be convenient and draw any patronage and it's more oriented towards access by car anyway. Just look at what is happening in Epping, where overdevelopment has created a ghost town with empty unsold buildings and bankrupt property developers. Previous substantial office space has been dramatically reduced, which has had a severe impact on existing retail businesses because of the lack of office workers supporting the day-time economy.

I have never agreed with the strategy of building new rail lines, whether as metro or part of the existing network, with redevelopment potential being the sole criteria for determining the route. It should certainly be taken into account, but existing low density residential areas without a rail service should also be given equal consideration. I also disagree with bypassing existing established centres just because they may not have any redevelopment potential. After all, there is no guarantee that redevelopment will actually take place and it's subject to the whims of the property market.

On the matter of station spacing, it is a bit ridiculous though that there is a 6km gap between Cherrybrook and Epping for what is supposed to be a frequent high capacity "metro". This was necessitated by the need to tunnel on a much steeper alignment under Devlin's Creek. The original North West Rail Link proposal as part of the existing network provided for quadruplication of the Northern Line from Epping to a tunnel portal just south of Beecroft station, continuing towards the North West. It would have allowed for a shorter and shallower tunnel towards Cherrybrook with the potential to include another station at Thompsons Corner West Pennant Hills, where there is an existing Neighbourhood Shopping Centre, as well as providing a greatly enhanced catchment area. It's not convenient for all commuters from West Pennant Hills to go to Cherrybrook station as they're back-tracking anyway. They're more likely to go to Beecroft or Pennant Hills as they do currently.

This was another failing of the previous Labor Government in caving in to the vociferous Cheltenham/Beecroft NIMBYs, just as they did with the crossing of the Lane Cove River for the Epping to Chatswood Rail Link. In neither instance would the local constituency have voted for them regardless of which decision they made, so they had nothing to loose in sticking with their original plans, which would have been a better outcome. I'm still flummoxed to this day why they were so easily influenced by a vociferous minority who weren't going to vote for them anyway.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Post by Swift »

The "Wolli Creeking" of Epping must be down to Parramatta taking over Hornsby Shire's control of the eastern side of the line. I was somewhat saddened to see the former Australian Guarantee Corporation (AGC), later Westpac office building gone the other day. I can recall it being built around 1981 as a child and being able to see the giant AGC sign from various vantage points in Eastwood. It had become a local institution and a source of office ladies getting lunch at the various eateries in and around Langston Place. All these personal memories of Epping life wiped out. Too much change too quickly going on there. What the hell happened to preserving the character of an area that councils are traditionally supposed to safeguard?
As for this hyped up clout of the Cheltenham and Beecroft bleaters, I can only put it down to connections they have in high(ish) places that transcends results at the polls.
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