Trams+Double decker buses?

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mubd
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Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by mubd »

I was just wondering-were there any double decker buses in Sydney when there were trams operating? If so, how much clearance was there between the power lines and the roof of the bus?
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by OLYMPIAN »

There are open top decker in Sydney, does it count?

I think the clearance for the tram line is less than 5m
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by boronia »

There were lots of d/d buses around in the days of trams.

Normal OHW was about 5.5m high, so plenty of clearance. The only problems I can think of would have been under railway lines at Cir Quay and Hay St (d/d not allowed)
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by tonyp »

Deckers had more chance of decapitating themselves on bridges (which they did) than fouling tram wires.

Tell me about DDs being around when trams were running. That was the problem - we were expected to put up with the foul beasts while the trams were phased out - and for many years afterwards. The single deckers weren't much better either. :evil:
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by deepthought2006 »

OLYMPIAN wrote:There are open top decker in Sydney, does it count?

I think the clearance for the tram line is less than 5m
I wonder what would happen if some excited tourist carrying an opened umbrella stood up at the wrong time :shock: on the top deck of one of the red topless deckers? Zap! Oh well, another one bites the dust! :twisted: Darwin's theory at work again!

Hmmm... Topless deckers, now there's an idea! :idea: :shock: :lol:
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by Bedford-29 »

Half cab D/D's did run to the Opera house as there was a dip under the railway viaduct at the St James end at Circular Quay.And tram overhead is energized at 600-750 volts so I guess if someone touched the tram overhead they would either get one hell of a punch or be pushing up daisy`s in the local cemetery.
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by Tonymercury »

boronia wrote:
Normal OHW was about 5.5m high, so plenty of clearance. The only problems I can think of would have been under railway lines at Cir Quay and Hay St (d/d not allowed)

And, famously, Burwood Rd at Burwood Station
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by boronia »

The bridge over George St at CQ has only 4.4 m clearance, so I guess bus drivers would have been expected to "keep to the left" of the tram wires if passing under. I think the east side was a bit higher, but the same rules would have applied.
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by On Air »

mubd wrote:I was just wondering-were there any double decker buses in Sydney when there were trams operating? If so, how much clearance was there between the power lines and the roof of the bus?
Not only were there DD buses operating alongside trams but DD Trolley buses operated along a short section of George street between Market and Park streets. The Trolley buses operated the Potts Point line and were of the AEC "Q" type. I have seen pictures of the Trolleys in that section of George Street but would love to see a shot of a Trolley bus preceding or following a tram using the same section of overhead, the trolley used an extra wire being as no earth could be achieved via the wheels as was the case with the trams.
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by Dave Wilson »

Image

This goes to illustrate trams and double deckers together somewhat. East Circular Quay in the last days of the George St lines Nov 1958. R1 2001 and AEC Regent 2478
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by robert »

On Air wrote:Not only were there DD buses operating alongside trams but DD Trolley buses operated along a short section of George street between Market and Park streets. The Trolley buses operated the Potts Point line and were of the AEC "Q" type. I have seen pictures of the Trolleys in that section of George Street but would love to see a shot of a Trolley bus preceding or following a tram using the same section of overhead, the trolley used an extra wire being as no earth could be achieved via the wheels as was the case with the trams.
Correction: The trolley buses ran along George Street between Park and Bathurst Streets.

They approached Town Hall from Kings Cross via William & Park Sts and departed via Bathurst, Elizabeth, Liverpool, College & William Sts.
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by wyth »

Bridge clearance, you should be aware of the areas NOT to enter low bridge places!! I found out 1 bridge in Dublin is 14ft 4" & is a contra flow bus lane, our buses are just able to clear it, but our enviro 500's are 14ft 5 so wouldnt clear it.
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by boronia »

deepthought2006 wrote: I wonder what would happen if some excited tourist carrying an opened umbrella stood up at the wrong time :shock: on the top deck of one of the red topless deckers? Zap! Oh well, another one bites the dust! :twisted: Darwin's theory at work again!
Nothing would happen actually. For the "zap" to happen there would have to be a circuit from the overhead wire through the passenger and the bus to earth. The rubber tyres would work as insulators to effectively prevent this.

Notwithstanding this, I understand the open toppers are not permitted under the current tram wires when carrying passengers. Wonder what will happen when they put trams the length of George St.
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by robert »

boronia wrote: Wonder what will happen when they put trams the length of George St.
Good to see that you are confident that trams will again run along George St! Did Barry O'Keneally whisper in your ear?
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by On Air »

robert wrote:
boronia wrote: Wonder what will happen when they put trams the length of George St.
Good to see that you are confident that trams will again run along George St! Did Barry O'Keneally whisper in your ear?
No, we must not upset the roads lobby. :evil:
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by wyth »

In Dublin, our city open top tour drivers inform passengers not to stand up upper saloon while driving under tram cables, our buses are 14ft 3inches and I believe the overhead cables are 16 & a half foot?? In Manchester in Northern England, I believe the Police wont allow open top buses operate a tour which involves driving under the cables so open top buses in Manchester in the summer are SINGLE DECK OPEN TOPS!!
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by Newcastle Flyer »

boronia wrote:Normal OHW was about 5.5m high, so plenty of clearance. The only problems I can think of would have been under railway lines at Cir Quay and Hay St (d/d not allowed)
I wonder if a "low bridge" near Burwood (I think) comes to mind?
mubd wrote:I was just wondering-were there any double decker buses in Sydney when there were trams operating? If so, how much clearance was there between the power lines and the roof of the bus?
See the various books/videos/DVDs, etc., and search for other pictures at Libraries, etc.

Newcastle operated at one stage, the only government buses that had a fully double deck fleet. (Gee, I forget what the wording was)

And Mubd, don't forget, Sydney also had double deck trams/trailers.
Not sure, but I think one of the C class trams at the Sydney Tram Festival, may have been an ex-double deck tram carriage.

Edit: Their is a picture of C82 (motorised) that shows it as a double deck.
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by GM »

From memory the Wylde St Trolley Buses used tramway overhead for the positive and a seperate conductor for the negative from their depot in Rushcutters Bay to near Kings Cross where they took up running on their own overhead. GM
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by Newcastle Flyer »

For a minute, I thought you said that the trolley buses used both tram & trolley bus overhead!
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by GM »

Newcastle Flyer, I Did, Why not?
There is documentation about on this subject, written re the Trolley Buses leaving the old Cable Tramway Shed and proceeding to their point of starting. GM
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by boronia »

Newcastle Flyer wrote:
And Mubd, don't forget, Sydney also had double deck trams/trailers.
Not sure, but I think one of the C class trams at the Sydney Tram Festival, may have been an ex-double deck tram carriage.

Edit: Their is a picture of C82 (motorised) that shows it as a double deck.
There were a number of double deck trams early in the steam tram era (14 self propelled units and around 80 trailers), but they were structurally weak and lasted only a few years before being decapitated or scrapped.

There were two C class electric cars converted to d/d design, but it was considered that longer bogie cars were more efficient, so they only lasted a few months before being deconverted. Sydney Tram Museum has one of these cars and it is currently being rebuilt back to the original d/d design. Wasn't at this year's festival, but who knows next year??
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Re: Trams+Double decker buses?

Post by Bedford-29 »

What about the D/D electric trams that went into service 1892 in Hobart.And as for the D/D trams in Sydney which was a experiment which C 33 & 82 were used and they ran in D/D form 3/1907 to 1/1908.
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