Bustech Discussion / Observations

General Transport Discussion not specific to one state
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tonyp
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by tonyp »

I had a clue about this when I looked at the bloke sitting down in this early publicity photo:

Bustechelectric1.jpg

What is it about Bustech?
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Tim Williams
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Tim Williams »

That rising window line is not at all compatible with the flat floor, as you have noted, the bloke with the papers, is reasonably close to the front and he would have some difficulty seeing out, let alone if he was close to the back.

The concept drawings for their new range, does show the preferable level window line - thank goodness!! But, as I have mentioned previously, the double decker will require a third axle - so it makes me wonder how realistic these concept drawings are.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Move the windowline down I don't want to spend my trip looking at the wall
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by tonyp »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:07 pm Move the windowline down I don't want to spend my trip looking at the wall
They did end up adjusting the window line on the diesel Bustechs for Adelaide for this reason - only at the insistence of Admet. The design details for the "mark 2" ZDi electric bus are so vague at the moment we don't know what the end result will be. The window line seems from the renders to be OK but a set of stairs has reappeared in the aisle! I can just see what the next evolution will be - the window line will be OK, there'll be a flat floor again, but there'll be stairs at the back door again. Bustech is a sort of bus design-skills version of whack-a-mole.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Tim Williams »

I would still like to see a level window line as in their new concept stuff - I really do not know why they persist with this angled window line, when adverse comments seem to be the norm, regarding outside seated vision. Now if operators bought their CDI DD's in big numbers (just to satisfy tonyp's thoughts and desires) then it would not be a problem.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by tonyp »

Tim Williams wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:19 pm I would still like to see a level window line as in their new concept stuff - I really do not know why they persist with this angled window line, when adverse comments seem to be the norm, regarding outside seated vision. Now if operators bought their CDI DD's in big numbers (just to satisfy tonyp's thoughts and desires) then it would not be a problem.
A manufacturer that prioritises style over substance. The fact that they get so many sales suggests that a lot of operators and agencies don't understand the substance (functionality for its purpose as a city bus) either. And what's with the single leaf front door in their renders? You can usually only get away with that e.g. in Europe, where there's a third (double-leaf) door at the rear and most people use the second and third doors. Is that single-leaf door compliant width for a wheelchair I wonder?
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Tim Williams »

As mentioned previously, I think and would hope that drawings that we can are just concepts and that the actual buses will indeed have double width doors at the front, artics will be 17 -18mtrs in length and d/deckers will have 3 axles.

I do agree that the window line should be level, as shown on the concept drawings. The Adelaide buses have an improved, but not perfect window line.

MB Citaros are a well designed bus with a level windows as are most low floor buses - other Australian urban low floors (meaning mainly low entrance, at present), Gemilang MAN Lions City, Alexander Dennis Enviro 200 and many more others.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Off The Rails »

Well... Bustech's artic has made an appearance.

Window line is still the same.

Here's the link if the YT embed fails: https://youtu.be/2tjjNRpU28g
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Tim Williams »

Well, this is interesting! Do we know where this is going??

Obviously the bus will be a "kombo" with a low floor section only at the front, I really thought Bustech would go on to produce a full low floor artic as per the concept drawings.

As I say, this is very interesting, but surprising - but I do hope that it is coming to Adelaide, I know that it is being parochial!!
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by BusFan23 »

I think that Adelaide is a quite likely candidate for the new artic's home. However, in the background of the video, a bus was being built and it looked like it was of Sydney spec (black top at the rear). This could simplify be the bus being manufactured in NSW, but I wouldn't get your hopes up of it coming to Adelaide, as much as I would like it to.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by tonyp »

It's odd that there has been no announcement of an order for new combos from any agency or operator. This one would surely only be for Adelaide or Canberra. Nowhere else in the world that I know of orders such an anachronistic design for a citybus. I'm surprised somebody even makes a chassis for them considering the tiny number of rare Australia-only orders. From the window line, it certainly belongs to the current Bustech model generation rather than the future concept designs.

(Bustechs for NSW are manufactured in Queensland.)
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Off The Rails »

The bus that's in front of the artic at the beginning of the video looks like it has the same window line at the Admet Hybrid, and I'm fairly sure that was built in Adelaide. So it could be being built in Adelaide for Adelaide.

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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by tonyp »

Perhaps that large current Adelaide order for buses from Precision included a number of artics, but that was not picked up in the announcement? Or else it's a demonstration prototype.

Looking at that video more closely, the coupling in the bus seems to be set high, yet these combos for Adelaide and Canberra are Scania K series which is a low-entry bus chassis (low floor all the way to the last rear axle). Yet the frame of this one shows no sign of being a normal K series chassis, which leads me to the conclusion that Scania must be providing a bespoke chassis for these Adelaide and Canberra buses, the only ones of this type in the world. (The only high-floor artics still being made, as far as I know, are for specialised BRTs with high platforms like Bogota.)

Trust Australian operators to be in the anachronistic rearguard fighting off the increasing widespread adoption of low floor city public transport! Especially considering these two cities have adopted all-door boarding. The manufacturers aren't generally at fault, they can only build what is ordered from them by agencies and operators. When builders have been free to initiate the design themselves, like the Custom Element, the Volgren electric for Perth and the prototype Bustech ZDi in Adelaide, they've gone for fully low floor (except where it is a BYD chassis which is low-entry only), so they understand the current best international standard.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by BusFan23 »

I was thinking that it could be a demonstrator. I don’t think there would be a good reason for doing that as only Adelaide and Canberra would order them. Other cities/states are choosing double deck buses over artics now.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

BusFan23 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:16 am Other cities/states are choosing double deck buses over artics now.
Not Perth. 50 additional Volvo B8RLEA articulated buses to come over the next 3 years; meaning we will finally surpass the historic high of 113 articulated vehicles after the Renaults and MANs finished delivery by 1990. Since that time, the proportion of artics in the fleet has only declined and the actual numbers were in slow decline, too.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by tonyp »

BusFan23 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:16 am I was thinking that it could be a demonstrator. I don’t think there would be a good reason for doing that as only Adelaide and Canberra would order them. Other cities/states are choosing double deck buses over artics now.
It's not a typical articulated bus, so it couldn't be a demonstrator. It's a specific design used by Canberra and Adelaide only.

Double deckers can't do the high turnover work that most artics do in Australia. They're too slow exchanging passengers and too slow moving along. They'll always be a niche bus typically for semi-express, long distance work. No sign of WA, Victoria or Queensland changing course on artics. Sydney already has a huge fleet of them with major trunk routes dependent on them and will no doubt be replacing them with more artics when they complete their lifespan.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Tim Williams »

I really do not think that artics in Australia are that fast with loading and unloading passengers, I also think double deckers are not that slow in this area, in any event Singapore is taking delivery of 50 MAN DD's with 3 doors and 2 staircases, but the layout at the back is very poor, a high floor behind the rear axles (and an impact on the top deck floor) to cover mechanical components, which were not rearranged from the left to the right and an excessively long rear overhang. There is a full description and photos of these buses on the website "Land Transport Guru SG" - it is well worth a look. These 50 MAN's will be followed by 50 AD Enviro 500's which seem to have been re-engineered to have a flat floor right to the back.

I think that the main problem with double deckers here is not speed of loading and unloading passengers, but the requirement to clear all potential routes of overhead obstacles, particularly trees - a very expensive exercise for probably only a few deckers. But in Singapore, for example, there will be about 2,700 double deckers in service once the new 3 door buses are delivered (which is about 45% of their total route service fleets) - with that number, Island wide road profiling for DD's has occured. But even there, a very few routes cannot be operated by DD's - such as services to and from Changi Airport (Terminal One) where the underground bus station/interchange was built with insufficient headroom - a strange lack of forward planning by Singapore, most unusual for that country!
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by tonyp »

Overseas operations aren't really that relevant to how things are done here. Likewise one could cite all those four and five door central European artics and their 15-20 second dwells. The way buses are run in NSW, double deckers are very slow with the requirement that nobody can get on at any door (and only one door is allowed for entry anyway) while people are getting off and nobody can come down from upstairs until the bus is stopped so there is an eternal wait while everybody gets off. At least artics can empty quickly through three doors even though front door loading still reigns in NSW. That is changing in other states. The greatest benefit of double deckers in Sydney is long distance runs where high seating capacity is an attribute. Anyway, it's interesting to see Bustech build an artic for the first time. Establishing a factory in NSW is also a plus for NSW.
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by Tim Williams »

Rather than hijack this topic, I am happy to have a separate topic where we can discuss the relative merits of double deckers vs. artics, although we have probably been through all this before.

By the way, I do not think that "dwell time" is the only factor when considering bus types/configurations!!
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by BAMBAM »

Let’s not forget, The SA Government did order articulated buses in the last contract but they said it will be interstate, that bus might be for SA government because they only specified that it will be built interstate, but not the body builder. Watch this space
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Bustech electric bus factory in City of Newcastle's sights with union backing
NEWCASTLE HERALD
https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/stor ... rud4VbJGMw
UNIONS have backed a City of Newcastle bid to draw an electric bus manufacturer to set up shop in the Hunter.

Newcastle councillors on Tuesday night resolved to write to BusTech in a bid to convince the company to make Newcastle its new base.
ADVERTISING

THE NSW government aims to convert its 8000-bus fleet to electric vehicles by 2030. BusTech is one of five certified suppliers.

Lord mayor Nuatali Nelmes described the city as "a perfect fit" for building 120 new buses for the state government in 2021 and converting the existing fleet.


In December the company's chief executive Thinus Steyn announced the company had plans to enter NSW.

"We're looking at building an additional facility in Queensland, two potential facilities in NSW and then another in Victoria," Thinus said.

"Hopefully all the planning we've done and the engagement we've been busy with will allow us to bear fruit by the end of this year."

The Hunter Jobs Alliance says the bid could help secure manufacturing jobs in the Hunter after the company was admitted to the state government's procurement panel.

"We know the Hunter has the skills to manufacture electric buses. We know BusTech, as an Australian manufacturer, are looking for a site to supply vehicles to meet the NSW Government's move to electric buses by 2030. This is a great opportunity for the region to put its hand up and say 'this can be done here,'" Hunter Jobs Alliance spokesperson Warrick Jordan said.

BusTech presently operates in South Australia, Queensland and Tasmania.


Australian Manufacturing Workers Union NSW State Secretary Cory Wright said the region faced "significant challenges" that the manufacturer's arrival could help solve.

"Newcastle and the Hunter region are facing significant challenges. We should grab any opportunity to diversify the region's economy and create good secure jobs for workers and their families. We know that regional manufacturing contracts of this nature provide opportunities for workers to build a life and stable career in their local areas," Mr Wright said.
I understand the focus is on Bustech only here but I'm surprised they made no mention of Volgren who had their own factory here in the Hunter at Tomogo from 2010 to 2012. To see the new Bustech factory here would be amazing .
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Re: Bustech Discussion / Observations

Post by tonyp »

Volgren is probably suffering from burnt figures from being previously treated in such a cavalier fashion by the same NSW government. It's good news if Bustech is considering setting up in NSW if they are continuing as a supplier there as that will eliminate the political thorn of NSW buses being sourced from interstate. The next issue now is whether Bustech can actually produce a decent bus design. Still waiting on that.
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