STA Observations 2020

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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by tonyp »

I feel sorry for the Army personnel who are being ordered(?) to carry suitcases. Too much slackness around the edges of the medical advisorys there. Suitcases are a good test of accessibility in vehicle design. Every bus designer should be ordered to spend a day travelling around a city:

1. in a wheelchair
2. with a pram with a solidly-built child in it, another one in tow, a bag of baby supplies and a shopping bag
3. with a shopping trolley
4. with a 20 kg suitcase

before they're allowed near a drawing board.

I remember Tony Bailey telling me how our local bus engineers have a knack of finding the wheelchair space a handy spot for fitting in some extra bit of equipment, rendering it difficult to park a wheelchair in it. This current crisis will be another good sieve (in addition to rail substitution services) for sorting the sheep from the goats in bus design and highlights the general absence of customer focus in the Australian bus sector. This is one big reason we're moving back to trams but unfortunately we can't use trams for this sort of job. I've never had these problems riding European buses which are designed like a tram.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by J_Busworth »

tonyp wrote:I feel sorry for the Army personnel who are being ordered(?) to carry suitcases. Too much slackness around the edges of the medical advisorys there. Suitcases are a good test of accessibility in vehicle design. Every bus designer should be ordered to spend a day travelling around a city:

1. in a wheelchair
2. with a pram with a solidly-built child in it, another one in tow, a bag of baby supplies and a shopping bag
3. with a shopping trolley
4. with a 20 kg suitcase

before they're allowed near a drawing board.

I remember Tony Bailey telling me how our local bus engineers have a knack of finding the wheelchair space a handy spot for fitting in some extra bit of equipment, rendering it difficult to park a wheelchair in it. This current crisis will be another good sieve (in addition to rail substitution services) for sorting the sheep from the goats in bus design and highlights the general absence of customer focus in the Australian bus sector. This is one big reason we're moving back to trams but unfortunately we can't use trams for this sort of job. I've never had these problems riding European buses which are designed like a tram.
As long as the bus meets the very minimum DDA standards, it is allowed on Australian roads. This leaves us with some shocking outcomes such as the VST which have been running since 2003 and should never have made it past the drawing board. Australian bus designers would have a shock if they saw the buses being produced in Europe and even Asia. Even many North American cities have buses better than us! Our buses have a shocking design.
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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by tonyp »

J_Busworth wrote:
As long as the bus meets the very minimum DDA standards, it is allowed on Australian roads. This leaves us with some shocking outcomes such as the VST which have been running since 2003 and should never have made it past the drawing board. Australian bus designers would have a shock if they saw the buses being produced in Europe and even Asia. Even many North American cities have buses better than us! Our buses have a shocking design.
I don't want to go off-topic, but as an aside, the ACT's decision to have rear door-only boarding has turned an unfavourable spotlight on their VSTs and Combo artics as complaints are coming in from passengers with mobility issues, other than being in a wheelchair, unable to board at the rear doors because of the stairs and being refused by drivers at the front door because, like many in the community, drivers don't comprehend that disabilties are often "invisible" and aren't necessarily associated with needing a wheelchair. The chickens have come home to roost for the industry's past thoughtless design and purchasing decisions.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by Merc1107 »

tonyp wrote:The chickens have come home to roost for the industry's past thoughtless design and purchasing decisions.
Good. It's time they faced the music and were held to account for irresponsible purchase decisions. For instance - isn't the M.A.N. NG313 (per Brisbane Transport & Transperth's sole unit) meant to be a fully low-floor chassis?

Only trouble is, after all this it might "prove" that allowing rear-door loading causes too many complaints and they'll revert to their old habits.

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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote:
Only trouble is, after all this it might "prove" that allowing rear-door loading causes too many complaints and they'll revert to their old habits.
Canberra had introduced all-door loading without any fuss prior to this anyway. The current complaints are about the Bustechs and Combos with their stepped rear doors. No complaints about most of the fleet with stepless doorways.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by tonyp »

A Willoughby driver down with the virus according to 7 news.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

Noticed a couple today where the barrier tape was restricted to the front seat only, not across the luggage racks
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by Fleet Lists »

Region 8 timetables.
The current school holiday timetables for this region now show a finishing date 20200502 ie ending on Saturday 2nd May which is a week after school is due to resume although that could be subject to change. So is this an indication that schools will resume a week later or will there be new region 9 timetables on Sunday 3 May? See route 132 https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /132/28132
Another thing that is unusual with the region 9 timetables is that school routes such as route 611N remain active during the school holidays even though those routes are not operation but for region 9 only these holidays such routes show as Not Available when selected. https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... 1n/28611-N
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by Stu »

^ Region 8 will have the express routes renumbered.

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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by swtt »

Yes - here it is!

Image

Of particular interest is L90 - being renumbered to 190X. Goodbye "Limited Stops".

Image

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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by J_Busworth »

From May 3, Region 8 limited stops and express services are being renumbered in the 000x style. The final L90 departs from Wynyard at 00:33 on May 3, the first 190X departs from Palm Beach at 06:46 on May 3, being the last trip in the old style and the first trip in the new style respectively.

I have also seen desto files loaded for similar changes to be made in Region 7. This includes 500X Parramatta Limited Stops and 500X Circular Quay Limited Stops, which I would presume would replace the M52. I don't know when those changes are being made. It would seem as if all limited stops and express routes across Sydney will be moving to the new style.

If they all do move across, I wonder if we will see the 333X, 400X, 420X, etc. I think that would be going a bit overboard.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by swtt »

J_Busworth wrote:From May 3, Region 8 limited stops and express services are being renumbered in the 000x style. The final L90 departs from Wynyard at 00:33 on May 3, the first 190X departs from Palm Beach at 06:46 on May 3, being the last trip in the old style and the first trip in the new style respectively.

I have also seen desto files loaded for similar changes to be made in Region 7. This includes 500X Parramatta Limited Stops and 500X Circular Quay Limited Stops, which I would presume would replace the M52. I don't know when those changes are being made. It would seem as if all limited stops and express routes across Sydney will be moving to the new style.

If they all do move across, I wonder if we will see the 333X, 400X, 420X, etc. I think that would be going a bit overboard.
Let me take a punt/uneducated guess on the 500X one - it'll probably move across as it has more stops removed to make it a rapid route, a la Sydney's Bus Future, when the L2/L3 bus changes kick in? (and M50 is renumbered 508?)

My gut feeling is that there'll also be a 500N in that case, to replace 520 overnight services?

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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

Are they going to do away with Lxx series numbers and convert them to xxxX?

The original distinction between L and X has been long lost. The 333, 400, etc are stand alone LS services with no all stops equivalents. The L90 no longer has an all stops equivalent, so perhaps it could be just 190; it will still be a LS service, not a traditional express.

I find it funny that the X94 has more stops than the L94.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by swtt »

boronia wrote:Are they going to do away with Lxx series numbers and convert them to xxxX?
Looks like it. Maybe what Stu has mentioned about Region 6 changes down the track will also see L23/L28/L37/L38/L39 turn into 423X/428X/437X/438X/439X?

(A total shame that the original X25 which was axed is no longer coming back - the current 525/526 service isn't coping during the regular peaks)

The L09 has already been converted to 309X some time ago.
boronia wrote: The original distinction between L and X has been long lost. The 333, 400, etc are stand alone LS services with no all stops equivalents. The L90 no longer has an all stops equivalent, so perhaps it could be just 190; it will still be a LS service, not a traditional express.

I find it funny that the X94 has more stops than the L94.
And again the M52/L20 less stops from City to Top Ryde compared to the X series (all stops from Lyons Road Drummoyne). Drummoyne/Gladesville customers may find the X series faster, but Ryde customers will find M52 faster?

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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by Stu »

swtt wrote: Let me take a punt/uneducated guess on the 500X one - it'll probably move across as it has more stops removed to make it a rapid route, a la Sydney's Bus Future, when the L2/L3 bus changes kick in? (and M50 is renumbered 508?)

My gut feeling is that there'll also be a 500N in that case, to replace 520 overnight services?
The M50 will more than likely be renumbered to 508 and will be a loop service due to no layover space in the city and also being a short route it is more economical to make it into a loop route much like what occurred with routes 441 & 442.

I can see why the 520 number would be retired and replaced with 500X and possibly a 500N. The route 520 reflects a number of factors such as that it operates along the Victoria Rd corridor, operates to the City CBD and operates in Parramatta and surrounding suburbs. The 520 group of numbers between 520 - 529 operate between the areas of Parramatta & Burwood along with other surrounding suburbs. The 500X & 500N now represent the trip pattern operating between the City CBD and Parramatta, the 500 and 520 can be used again in future for use in their respective areas or for temporary replacement services.

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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by Stu »

swtt wrote:
Looks like it. Maybe what Stu has mentioned about Region 6 changes down the track will also see L23/L28/L37/L38/L39 turn into 423X/428X/437X/438X/439X?
Correct, X will replace L and some X numbers will have the X at end of the number. I think the R6 and R9 changes will occur at the same time due to the Region 6 routes M10 and M50 being directly affected by the CSELR.

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Re: STA Observations 2020

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swtt wrote: I have also seen desto files loaded for similar changes to be made in Region 7. This includes 500X Parramatta Limited Stops and 500X Circular Quay Limited Stops, which I would presume would replace the M52. I don't know when those changes are being made. It would seem as if all limited stops and express routes across Sydney will be moving to the new style.

If they all do move across, I wonder if we will see the 333X, 400X, 420X, etc. I think that would be going a bit overboard.
Let me take a punt/uneducated guess on the 500X one - it'll probably move across as it has more stops removed to make it a rapid route, a la Sydney's Bus Future, when the L2/L3 bus changes kick in? (and M50 is renumbered 508?)
equ
My gut feeling is that there'll also be a 500N in that case, to replace 520 overnight services?
I wonder whether the current 520 deviation around the Marlow Ave bridge at West Ryde, similar the current route of the 501, will be retained when or if the 520 will be renumbered to 500N?

If the new equivalent of the current M52/potential 500X will have a reduced number of stops between Rozelle and Top Ryde, will there be a restructuring of the all-stops services between Rozelle and Top Ryde (501/515/518) together with other routes e.g. 504/506/507 and whatever replaces the M50 (508)? Also would X04, X06, X15 and X18 be renumbered 504X, 506X, 515X and 518X respectively?
Stu wrote:
swtt wrote: Let me take a punt/uneducated guess on the 500X one - it'll probably move across as it has more stops removed to make it a rapid route, a la Sydney's Bus Future, when the L2/L3 bus changes kick in? (and M50 is renumbered 508?)

My gut feeling is that there'll also be a 500N in that case, to replace 520 overnight services?
The M50 will more than likely be renumbered to 508 and will be a loop service due to no layover space in the city and also being a short route it is more economical to make it into a loop route much like what occurred with routes 441 & 442.
If the new 508 (M50 equivalent) will terminate somewhere within the CBD, what will happen with the rest of the M50 route that extends from Town Hall to at least Moore Park (given Moore Park to Coogee will be made redundant by the Region 6/9 shake up and the Light Rail). Will the sections along Chalmers/Elizabeth Sts and Cleveland St be served by the 508 (or any equivalent to the M50), or will passengers be redistributed into whatever replaces the 372, 393, 395?
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by Stu »

^Any remaining parts of the M50 are service kilometres that should remain in Region 6 to be dispersed within that respective network, I would expect the 508 to not travel any further East than Town Hall so passengers can then use a tram.

The X numbers in the 500# will be renumbered, is nature if this will be grouped with other impending changes or if it will be stand alone.

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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by swtt »

Stu wrote:^Any remaining parts of the M50 are service kilometres that should remain in Region 6 to be dispersed within that respective network, I would expect the 508 to not travel any further East than Town Hall so passengers can then use a tram.

The X numbers in the 500# will be renumbered, is nature if this will be grouped with other impending changes or if it will be stand alone.
That'll be a crap lot of remaining kilometres left over after the eastern leg of M50 is gone! That's a brand new full time route that Region 6 can operate! :)

Having said that, Stu has already mentioned that Route 504 needs a boost, as will the impending "Parramatta Road B-line" (See: http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewt ... =3&t=86305)

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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by Fleet Lists »

It is now up on Transport Info for region 8 https://transportnsw.info/news/2020/bus ... y#homepage Except for the renumbering nothing else.

Timetables are also available for the renumbered routes.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by pgt »

Noticed a couple of the Northern Beaches buses prematurely showing the new "X" suffixed route numbers this morning (I think I saw 183x at least - it was definitely a lowercase "x").
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by J_Busworth »

pgt wrote:Noticed a couple of the Northern Beaches buses prematurely showing the new "X" suffixed route numbers this morning (I think I saw 183x at least - it was definitely a lowercase "x").
Most drivers I've spoken to recently suggest the new files have been in there for at least a week or so now. Doesn't surprise me if a few drivers are change happy.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by marcnut1996 »

I came across this today: https://www.westconnex.com.au/news-medi ... w-complete
It says that the no right turn has been introduced from Euston Road onto Sydney Park Road. No wonder the 370 was permanently diverted via Mitchell Road last year.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by boronia »

From Sun Herald today:
Buses added to strained road network
TRANSPORT STRETCHED

EXCLUSIVE
Tom Rabe
Transport reporter

Commuters keep their distance on a bus in Newtown yesterday. Photo: Dean Sewell

Dozens of extra buses are being added to the busiest sections of Sydney’s straining public transport system as hundreds of thousands of students return to school amid strict social distancing measures on services.

Close to 800,000 students are expected to return to classrooms from tomorrow, prompting Transport Minister Andrew Constance to urge parents to drop their children at school to help ease the burden on Sydney buses and trains.

The government last week implemented physical distancing measures on public transport, limiting 12 people per bus and 32 per train carriage in a bid to prevent the spread of coronavirus as the city begins to reopen.

Transport experts have predicted Sydney’s roads could become clogged or public transport could exceed safe limits if people don’t stay home, given the current restrictions.

A Transport for NSW spokeswoman said the government was adding 50 buses, carrying out an extra 110 trips each week, to the network during peak periods.

The extra services will be rolled out on the 202, 285, B-line, 246, 247, 309, 309X, 324, and 372 routes.

As the government braces itself for its biggest public transport test of the pandemic, private bus operators say they are out of work and willing to help bolster the network.

Bus NSW director Matt Threlkeld said scores of private operators were sitting idle and could help the government transport more people across Sydney under current restrictions.

‘‘There are a substantial number of buses used for tourist and charter services that have been impacted by COVID-19 and are currently sitting idle,’’ he said.

Opposition transport spokesman Chris Minns said the government should do more to increase peak-hour capacity and stimulate the economy.
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Re: STA Observations 2020

Post by J_Busworth »

Good to see that extra services will be added. Those North Shore and Eastern Suburbs routes that they have included are the ones I've noticed the most crowding on of late, so its excellent to see they are targeting the routes that genuinely need it the most.I've been on 324s and 372s this week, each time with a substantial loading (close to 30 people per bus). I have also heard about the crowding issues the past week with the B1, so these services are a welcome addition.

Will there be an offical services changes release from TfNSW and new timetables released, or will these simply be extra non-timetabled services?
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