Various electric buses at TSA.

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: TSA Electric buses built by Gemilang Australia.

Post by tonyp »

Yes that's what I recall now. So evidently there was a deliberate reasoning behind choosing the portal axle (enabling low floor) version over the standard axle (forcing high floor at the rear). I can't think of any reason for that other than they deliberately wanted a low floor. By the bye, I've often wondered, is a portal axle more costly than a standard axle (assuming no hub motors)?
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: TSA Electric buses built by Gemilang Australia.

Post by tonyp »

Looks like they might soon be joined by the Yutong:

https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-new ... Ry3XzHo6j8
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 21458
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Shire

Re: TSA Electric buses built by Gemilang Australia.

Post by Fleet Lists »

Two earlier posts about this have also been moved from private observations to here including one from tonyp - will also change title of this thread.
Living in the Shire.

User avatar
Tongans101
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:15 pm

Re: TSA Electric buses built by Gemilang Australia.

Post by Tongans101 »

tonyp wrote:Yes that's what I recall now. So evidently there was a deliberate reasoning behind choosing the portal axle (enabling low floor) version over the standard axle (forcing high floor at the rear). I can't think of any reason for that other than they deliberately wanted a low floor. By the bye, I've often wondered, is a portal axle more costly than a standard axle (assuming no hub motors)?

Yes, portal axles are more expensive and heavier too. Even without hub motors.

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Posts: 7034
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:03 am
Favourite Vehicle: Mercedes-Benz O405 / CC '510'
Location: Sutherland Shire

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by Daniel »

The Yutong has been at TSA Leichhardt since Tuesday.

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: TSA Electric buses built by Gemilang Australia.

Post by tonyp »

Tongans101 wrote:
Yes, portal axles are more expensive and heavier too. Even without hub motors.
SInce the purpose of a portal axle is to enable low floor, one could be forgiven for asking why one would fit a more expensive and heavier bit of kit if it's not going to be used for the purpose for which it's designed!
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

User avatar
Tongans101
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:15 pm

Re: TSA Electric buses built by Gemilang Australia.

Post by Tongans101 »

tonyp wrote:
Tongans101 wrote:
Yes, portal axles are more expensive and heavier too. Even without hub motors.
SInce the purpose of a portal axle is to enable low floor, one could be forgiven for asking why one would fit a more expensive and heavier bit of kit if it's not going to be used for the purpose for which it's designed!
Not sure what your point is, if indeed you are trying to make one.

1. You can't fit hub motors to a standard axle.
2. The BYD chassis has hub motors on its portal axle
3. All the batteries required to meet customer requirements cannot be all fitted to the roof and so are fitted behind the rear axle. Ergo no low floor.
This has all been explained in previous posts.

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: TSA Electric buses built by Gemilang Australia.

Post by tonyp »

Tongans101 wrote:
Not sure what your point is, if indeed you are trying to make one.

1. You can't fit hub motors to a standard axle.
2. The BYD chassis has hub motors on its portal axle
3. All the batteries required to meet customer requirements cannot be all fitted to the roof and so are fitted behind the rear axle. Ergo no low floor.
This has all been explained in previous posts.
Your points 1 and 2 answer the question in respect of the BYD thanks. This is the information I was looking for. Not all low floor electric buses have hub motors (see drawings below). What about the Yutongs?

https://www.skoda.cz/data/catalog/6/73/3814.pdf
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

User avatar
Tongans101
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:15 pm

Re: TSA Electric buses built by Gemilang Australia.

Post by Tongans101 »

tonyp wrote:
Tongans101 wrote:
Not sure what your point is, if indeed you are trying to make one.

1. You can't fit hub motors to a standard axle.
2. The BYD chassis has hub motors on its portal axle
3. All the batteries required to meet customer requirements cannot be all fitted to the roof and so are fitted behind the rear axle. Ergo no low floor.
This has all been explained in previous posts.
Your points 1 and 2 answer the question in respect of the BYD thanks. This is the information I was looking for. Not all low floor electric buses have hub motors (see drawings below). What about the Yutongs?

https://www.skoda.cz/data/catalog/6/73/3814.pdf
I don't think I said that all low floor buses had hub motors. They do all have portal axles which are still heavier than "conventional" axles. Don't know about the Yutongs. I know the model being trialled is not the latest version.

RonB1949
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:26 am

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by RonB1949 »

Are the BYDs or Yutong in service at the moment? What routes/trips are they doing please?
Thanks

moa999
Posts: 2543
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by moa999 »

See post #44 and prior.
You can track them using the Electric filter on anytrip.com.au

Haven't seen the Yutong active, presumably needs some restickering first.

On other trials, is there any timing known for the Randwick trial, which I believe was budgeted for $10m for 10 buses including charging installation costs.

Stu
Posts: 4034
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:37 am

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by Stu »

The handful of drivers who are in the electric bus roster are beginning to be rostered training for the Yutong. There will also soon be a relief line for the electric bus roster. I suspect that all five electric buses could be out at the same time as there are more than just 4 x shifts created for the current 4 x BYD's, there are other shifts that may be rotated in future.

I would presume that the electric buses for STA R-Depot may start appearing near or after the Region 9 bus network changes are implemented. The new network would most likely require less buses, this would be a good time to easily retire older buses plus an additional 10 x older Scania low entry models with the electric buses.

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by tonyp »

A random look at Anytrip right now reveals a couple of BYDs in the eastern suburbs on 440 and 389. None in the inner west, though one was there earlier in the day.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

RonB1949
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:26 am

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by RonB1949 »

Looks like you can only filter to bus type on the website, not the app. When will the trial end?
Thanks

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by tonyp »

The app is pretty poor compared to the website.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 21458
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Shire

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by Fleet Lists »

What website are we talking about?
Living in the Shire.

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by tonyp »

Any Trip
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

User avatar
BanksfielderIdiot823
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:11 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Volgrens and Ford Falcons
Location: Edensor Park, NSW or Dandenong, VIC

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by BanksfielderIdiot823 »

Fleet Lists wrote:What website are we talking about?
anytrip.com.au, which to be absolutely honest, I agree with TonyP; it is better than the app.
Just forever waiting for a Volgren Optimus, let alone a Volgren Optimus Volvo B9TL, to cruise by Edensor Park...
Formerly of Bankstown City until that council amalgamation...

User avatar
Tongans101
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:15 pm

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by Tongans101 »

RonB1949 wrote:Looks like you can only filter to bus type on the website, not the app. When will the trial end?
Thanks
The trial is for 2 years but likely the buses will be kept as TfNSW has a proposed 10% replacement to alternate (to diesel) powered buses

Jurassic_Joke
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:08 am

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

moa999 wrote: Haven't seen the Yutong active, presumably needs some restickering first.
They’d need to install Opal readers on the bus too? As down in Nowra I don’t think the services down there are Opal enabled.

But definitely a repaint in TfNSW livery I can see happening

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by tonyp »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: They’d need to install Opal readers on the bus too? As down in Nowra I don’t think the services down there are Opal enabled.

But definitely a repaint in TfNSW livery I can see happening
Yes, would need Opal readers and isn't a "repaint" just wrap nowadays?
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

Tim Williams
Posts: 995
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:26 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by Tim Williams »

When it comes to discussion about electric buses and probably other technical matters you blokes really get bogged down in the minutiae of the chosen subject, but perhaps it is of more interest and more beneficial looking at the bigger picture of current technical developments etc.

For example the BYD /ADL are making good progress with the sales of their Enviro 400EV, which have now reached 100, maybe more with, solid orders from London, Birmingham and Manchester - there is a very good technical article by Alan Millar in July's Buses Magazine, which details all the technical stuff without resorting to pure "rivet counting". ADL also provides photos and sales information on their website about these electric buses. The degree of industry confidence is shown by their order book and that the Enviro 400EV will be entering into full (squadron) service in the places mentioned above, nut just small experimental batches as happened to date.

Buses magazine does also state that the full order book for BYD/Alexander Dennis electric buses (both single and double deck) is now up to 276 - a pretty impressive number and this does include quite a number for New Zealand.

User avatar
Rad
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:53 am
Location: Gerringong NSW
Contact:

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by Rad »

They’d need to install Opal readers on the bus too? As down in Nowra I don’t think the services down there are Opal enabled.
Buses in Nowra and Kiama on town services have Opal readers
http://www.guideposttours.com.au & www.guidepost-travel.com
Rail and Coach Tours Worldwide
Railway Adventures

User avatar
Swift
Posts: 10899
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:23 am
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by Swift »

Stu wrote: The new network would most likely require less buses, this would be a good time to easily retire older buses plus an additional 10 x older Scania low entry models with the electric buses.
I sure hope they don't retire the wheelchair compatible ones first!
I think it's time to bite the bullet and cease ordering toxic diesel buses for good. Electric gives a better ride for starters and I have heard that Volvo trucks in Europe are going electric.
Unapologetically hate attention seeking bus pax.

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9363
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: Various electric buses at TSA.

Post by tonyp »

Thank you for the information on the ADL buses Tim - plenty of minutiae to bog myself down in there! ;)

I guess I look at it as a BYD bus with a body by yet another bodybuilder. I couldn't find any inside views of the double decker but it was a good ceverage of the single decker. Once again I am impressed by the centre door being as far back as possible but once again puzzled why they don't have a fully low floor (stepless gangway) as the diagram doesn't indicate that there is anything under the rear aisle (no batteries for example). The Yutong E12s in the UK have fully low floor, so perhaps it's a BYD thing. Also the description doesn't mention approximate range which I think is a fairly critical bit of information that should be available.

I think in Australia we are still cautiously trying out the technology before jumping in at the deep end with big orders. Much smaller market than the UK too. However, NSW is being quite progressive trialling electrics when other states so far have only dipped into diesel hybrids. The Bustech/Precision electric trial in Adelaide seems to have quietly died (?).
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”