• Advertisement

Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Melbourne / Victoria Transport Discussion

Moderator: MAN 16.242

Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby MotorOmnibus8562 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:20 am

Welcome to 2019
Sydney’s imported future....

Previously known as Bus883&1022 who was VolgrenTheTrooper
User avatar
MotorOmnibus8562
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:34 am
Location: Albury/Wodonga
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 14 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dysons Bus 883 and 1022

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby jlw » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:05 am

Kicking off 2019

North East
Delete : 0755 Seymour-Shepparton (replaced by train)
Alteration : 0650 Tocumwal-Shepparton retimed to 0630

South West
Apollo Bay coaches now calling at Waurn Ponds Shopping Centre

Western
Additional Stawell-Halls Gap-Stawell service

Northern
2 additional return coaches will run each weekday between Woodend and Daylesford.
An additional return service will also run on weekends.
There will be a local bus timetable change in the Kyneton area.

Details at the V/line website

Cheers JLW
jlw
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:43 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby Large Marge » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:51 pm

901 Smart Bus usual route has been restored on Friday and Saturday nights into Roxburgh Park Station and Reservoir Drive as from 11th March 2019.
PTV Website still has old information " PLEASE NOTE: SmartBus Route 901 is being diverted away from the shopping centre and train station after 7pm on Friday and Saturday nights (due to rock throwing in the Roxburgh Park area)."
User avatar
Large Marge
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:30 am
Location: Dandenong
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby Mike M » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:23 pm

Kyneton town bus services have been upgraded from their previous 3 days (Wednesday to Friday) a week operation to 6 days (Monday to Saturday) a week from 1 April. In addition a new service has been introduced between Kyneton & Trentham.

Details & map at the following link:

https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/footer/about ... n-kyneton/

Minor changes to services in Kilmore, Seymour & Wallan have also been made from the same date to maintain train connections with the new V/Line Seymour timetable effective 31 March.
Mike M
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:35 pm
Location: Frankston Line
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby burrumbus » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:43 pm

Thanks Mike for the info re Kyneton.
Those services ,especially at peak are just not frequent enough to attract any meaningful patronage.Perhaps an on demand style operation like Gisborne is the go ,especially to attract the peak hour patronage that the trains do carry.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 1084 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby PaxInfo » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:57 am

burrumbus wrote:Thanks Mike for the info re Kyneton.
Those services ,especially at peak are just not frequent enough to attract any meaningful patronage.Perhaps an on demand style operation like Gisborne is the go ,especially to attract the peak hour patronage that the trains do carry.


Problem with demand responsive routes is that it doesn't mix with (i) high patronage and (ii) train feeders.

'Demand responsive' buses are often considered the panacea to everything but they're not.

We already have demand responsive buses in Melbourne (Telebus, Route 490) and they don't set the world on fire as regards patronage.

The more passengers a demand responsive bus gets the more it deviates near other peoples homes. This slows travel for existing passengers as the bus route taken becomes less and less direct.

Whereas a slower trip may be accepted as a minor inconvenience for local shoppers, it's fatal for commuters. This is because as it gets more popular it deviates more and gets slower. This means you can't reliably schedule connections with trains and buses arrive just as the train leaves. The solution then is to go back to a fixed route with a fixed timetable and timed connections.

About the only case where I can see demand responsive buses working is for the last service of the night where the main passenger demand is people coming off the train wanting to be dropped off near home. Travel time is less of an issue as traffic is light and there's no onward connections.
Are you being served? Service aspects of public transport in Melbourne http://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com & MelbOnTransit on Twitter.
User avatar
PaxInfo
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 75 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby burrumbus » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:33 am

Demand responsive services are not ideal for higher patronage services,but can be a great marketing tool for low patronage services.It has certaintly worked in Gisborne where the operating area is relatively compact and you have regular predictable patronage,especially in the peak.Those new Kyneton services have not got a chance of attracting any meaningful patronage with that timetable.Complete waste of resources to add to the dozens of services operating around Melbourne that carry miniscule loadings.You have to try something different to attract patronage onto low patronage services/areas.The real opportunity at Kyneton is the peak hour patronage to/from the trains.Running low frequency fixed routes that miss many trains does not work.You need flexible buses that meet each peak hour train to/from Melbourne.I think the introduction of that service will surprise with the patronage .
burrumbus
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 1084 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby burrumbus » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:51 am

In a compact operating area like Kyneton you could operate demand responsive services surprisingly quickly.You do not a full size bus,just a Hiace or Rosa.The patronage for full size buses will never be there.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 1084 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby PaxInfo » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:10 am

burrumbus wrote:Demand responsive services are not ideal for higher patronage services,but can be a great marketing tool for low patronage services.It has certaintly worked in Gisborne where the operating area is relatively compact and you have regular predictable patronage,especially in the peak.Those new Kyneton services have not got a chance of attracting any meaningful patronage with that timetable.Complete waste of resources to add to the dozens of services operating around Melbourne that carry miniscule loadings.You have to try something different to attract patronage onto low patronage services/areas.The real opportunity at Kyneton is the peak hour patronage to/from the trains.Running low frequency fixed routes that miss many trains does not work.You need flexible buses that meet each peak hour train to/from Melbourne.I think the introduction of that service will surprise with the patronage .


We already have demand responsive buses in Melbourne (490, Telebus). Do any of these have more boardings per bus hour than local fixed routes?

If the demand responsive model is so good in peak periods why do some even some Telebuses (eg 672) operate a fixed route in the peaks and only do their flexible thing off-peak?

In the case of the very quiet fixed routes (eg 673, 687, 694) is the main problem their duplicative/overlapping nature or low density catchment rather than them being fixed route?

Are there examples in the world of high frequency demand responsive/flexible route bus operations? Or is it an inescapable geometrical fact that like with patronage, the more frequent a bus becomes the less practical flexible routing becomes?
Are you being served? Service aspects of public transport in Melbourne http://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com & MelbOnTransit on Twitter.
User avatar
PaxInfo
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 75 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby burrumbus » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:27 pm

Evening Paxinfo.
I do agree that high frequency/demand on demand services are very difficult to operate .I think the closest thing to a high frequency/demand on demand service in Australia is the various airport/CBD airport shuttles and airport car parking company shuttles that operate in Melbourne and Sydney mainly.Many of these carry very good loadings over the day on a purely on demand basis.Many of the car park company shuttles in Melbourne Airport carry considerably more pax per hour and per km than the conventional track bus services operating into that airport.The 3 routes into the airport operated by Tullamarine Bus Lines are just poorly used with average use per trip varying from 0-8 pax per trip.Again the problem here is those services just dump pax at a suburban shopping centre,requiring on average 2 more modes to get to pax origin/destination.Many of those shuttles can carry up to 30 pax per hour.Those TBL routes would be lucky to average 10 pax per hour.
In the cases you mentioned above of 490 and Telebus they really are not true on demand services as they operate to a fixed timetable and for the most part on a fixed route with fixed stops but with the abilty to divert off route as required .The patronage on those services is not great.The 490 especially just dumps pax at a suburban shopping centre,then requiring pax at least 2 other modes to get to their destinations.From experience most pax will only use 2 services maximum to get from origin to destination.The 490 only carries about 40 pax per day ,but its catchment is not very big.
The telebus services are similar in patronage,but at least drops pax to a rail connection.But it is not a true on demand service.
The only true on demand service in Melbourne is the Gisbus service,which although modified,has been very successful.
As a guide to what can be achieved with proper operation and marketing(Melbourne fails big time here)is the Keolis services on the far northern beaches in Sydney.With only 8 small buses in use those services carry 10,000 pax per month !!
Far more than the conventional feeder track services operated by STA in the area.The hilly geography in the area helps,but the personalised service linking homes with shopping centres and the B/Line service as well as the myriad of other purposes has been an absolute winner.
The Reynolds and Fogarty on demand service in Moree where a moribund,low patronage 3 route-3 trips per day town service operated by a full size low floor bus has been replaced by an on demand has seen patronage absolutely boom with 2 Hiaces operating most of the time 7am to 7pm 7 days per day.
Sometimes three buses are in use.
Pax do not require an expensive low floor bus.A comfortable seat belt equipped ,air conditioned Hiace with additional steps fitted is all pax require.The key is the relevancy of the service and the frequency and the abilty to get close to pax time requirements.
On demand services won't work in every area,but in many low patronage/low density areas these services can be a powerful marketing tool to stimulate pax growth.The services need attention to detail in organising and really good marketing to succeed.
I stick by my comments regarding Kyneton.That low frequency operation will not attract meaningful numbers.Kyneton is a relatively compact town with the rail and the CBD close together making an on demand service easy to operate.
Thanks for reading.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 1084 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby cal_t » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:03 pm

burrumbus wrote:Demand responsive services are not ideal for higher patronage services,but can be a great marketing tool for low patronage services.It has certaintly worked in Gisborne where the operating area is relatively compact and you have regular predictable patronage,especially in the peak.Those new Kyneton services have not got a chance of attracting any meaningful patronage with that timetable.Complete waste of resources to add to the dozens of services operating around Melbourne that carry miniscule loadings.You have to try something different to attract patronage onto low patronage services/areas.The real opportunity at Kyneton is the peak hour patronage to/from the trains.Running low frequency fixed routes that miss many trains does not work.You need flexible buses that meet each peak hour train to/from Melbourne.I think the introduction of that service will surprise with the patronage .


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_light_bus

What we need is something like this-
myki fares
set routes
pick up drop off wherever along set route
high frequency

Heaps of ma and pa businesses could run local services like this to the train stations
——
Any views expressed are do not represent those of any companies and are personal only. Other user ‘CAL’ & 'cal-creativist’ are not my pseudonyms; I am not associated with their posts.
User avatar
cal_t
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:35 pm
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 24 times
Favourite Vehicle: Deckers; LRVs

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby In Transit » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:18 pm

burrumbus wrote:....
The only true on demand service in Melbourne is the Gisbus service,which although modified,has been very successful.
As a guide to what can be achieved with proper operation and marketing(Melbourne fails big time here)is the Keolis services on the far northern beaches in Sydney.With only 8 small buses in use those services carry 10,000 pax per month !!
Far more than the conventional feeder track services operated by STA in the area.The hilly geography in the area helps,but the personalised service linking homes with shopping centres and the B/Line service as well as the myriad of other purposes has been an absolute winner.


10,000 pax per month works out to 42 passengers per day per vehicle (based on 30 days per month). Given the majority of opex is the driver, if the vehicle only does 8 revenue hours a day (and they likely do more), that works out to 5 passengers per hour. Suddenly an impressive number becomes a very unimpressive number. Given the span of hours varies between 14 and 17.5 hours per day, the likely hourly passenger rate is well below 5.
In Transit
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:13 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 135 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby Gusbus » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:02 am

The problem with the new Kyneton town network, is that the person who designed the routes has gone completely crazy!! A town or more like a suburb the size of Kyneton does not need 4 seperate bus routes, that's just ridiculously confusing! The best solution would've been just a oneway loop route that goes from the station to the shops, then does a loop of the town back to the shops, than down to the station. I reckon that loop could be done in 20-25 or so minutes, providing a healthy 30min frequency that could connect with most trains to/from Melbourne in the peak direction. The same route could provide clockwise and anti-clockwise service during the off peak at a lower frequency to provide more one seat trips to the medical centre on the edge of town, plus other local points of interest, without having to round the full loop.

An on demand service in this instance would just be unnecessary. Plus as you see when looking at the current network's timetables, a gap around school time. So they must use the bus to operate a school trip. A mini on demand bus would just require the purchase of a new bus large size bus for the school trip, or just add another vehicle to maintain to the fleet. Again unnecessary cost.

This new network for Kyneton really just reflects the rest of Melbourne outer suburbs - a bunch of short or meaningless overlapping routes, operating at a low frequency!
Good riddens to Westbus...
User avatar
Gusbus
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:14 am
Location: Eastern Suburbs
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 49 times
Favourite Vehicle: MAN SL202 ZF

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby burrumbus » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:35 am

Thanks for your post Gusbus.
Your ideas have much merit,and would be a vast improvement on what is proposed for Kyneton.That proposed network,as I said earlier ,has not got a chance of attracting any meaningful pax numbers.
Your last paragraph is completely accurate.
I believe that the service will use an existing low floor full size school bus from Dysons Kyneton fleet-hence the large gaps at school time.
To give the service the best chance of attracting pax you need to offer a full service over the day.
Perhaps a 30 minute frequency service all day as you suggested with a low floor mini bus would do the trick.Hino Poncho or similar.You will never ever need a full size bus capacity for this service.Those gaps in service just add yet another level to the unattractiveness of the proposed service.The biggest issue is to connect with as many peak direction trains as possible.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 1084 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby timmy1966 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:04 am

Why not just run the route services with Optare Solos which would be adequate.You also need to make easily accessible for the elderly that go to the shops every week,if you do that you would probably increase the patronage as alot of them may choose the bus instead of driving and trying to find a park.Kyenton is a fairly big place especially with all of the new estates around the fringes and i think if you get it right at the start there could be big scope for growth maybe into neighbouring areas...just a thought.
timmy1966
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:25 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby PaxInfo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:24 pm

Tonight's Ch 9 news reports on extra trips for routes 167, 495 & 498.

Routes 191, 441 and 497 will be extended into growth areas.

Starting July 28.

The report didn't mention the ones starting sooner than that - ie 627 & 760.
Are you being served? Service aspects of public transport in Melbourne http://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com & MelbOnTransit on Twitter.
User avatar
PaxInfo
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 75 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby PaxInfo » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:10 pm

Tenders called for three more routes https://www.tenders.vic.gov.au/tenders/ ... ew-tenders

Public Transport Victoria (Organisation) is seeking responses to this
Request for Tender (RFT) for the provision of New Bus Service Routes that
will provide coverage to unserviced growth areas in Melton and between
Donnybrook and Craigieburn (services). The new services are designed to give
passengers access to railway stations to improve accessibility and
connectivity to the transport system.

Respondents are invited to submit an Offer for one or more New Service
Routes as follows:

Offer for Route 444 (Rockbank Station to Aintree);
Offer for Route 454 (Cobblebank Station to Melton Station);
Offer for Route 525 (Donnybrook Station to Craigieburn via Mickleham);

All recycled numbers!

(thanks J for the alert)
Are you being served? Service aspects of public transport in Melbourne http://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com & MelbOnTransit on Twitter.
User avatar
PaxInfo
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 75 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby burrumbus » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:08 am

Thanks PaxInfo.
Be interesting to see whether a different operator other than Sita(TSA) or Kastoria(Broadmeadows) pops up with the winning tender(s).
burrumbus
 
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 1084 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby Mike M » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:58 am

PaxInfo wrote:Tonight's Ch 9 news reports on extra trips for routes 167, 495 & 498.

Routes 191, 441 and 497 will be extended into growth areas.

Starting July 28.


Full information for the 28 July changes is now online at the following link:

https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/footer/about ... rnes-west/
Mike M
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:35 pm
Location: Frankston Line
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby timmy1966 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:30 am

Hey all,
Reading about these extra services makes me laugh.As a very very frequent user of these roads around the area for the last 9 years there is no point putting extra services on without fixing up the road infrastructure first.The traffic volumes in this area are atrocious at any time of the day and night,and these services and extensions are just going to ad to the gridlock.
timmy1966
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:25 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Victorian Route and Timetable changes 2019

Postby PaxInfo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:06 am

timmy1966 wrote:Hey all,
Reading about these extra services makes me laugh.As a very very frequent user of these roads around the area for the last 9 years there is no point putting extra services on without fixing up the road infrastructure first.The traffic volumes in this area are atrocious at any time of the day and night,and these services and extensions are just going to ad to the gridlock.


Additions like the 498 short trips boost frequency from roughly 40 min to 20 min.

In other words adding one extra trip every 40 min to your existing hundreds of cars per hour.

Negligible in the whole scheme of things.

Even if it takes just a few cars off the road (which it will) these upgrades will be worthwhile.
Are you being served? Service aspects of public transport in Melbourne http://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com & MelbOnTransit on Twitter.
User avatar
PaxInfo
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 75 times



  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Melbourne / VIC

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests