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Battery trams

General Transport Discussion not specific to one state

Battery trams

Postby Myrtone » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:42 pm

Here are the different types of electric rail vehicle:

*Traditional straight electric, which always runs where there is an overhead wire or a third rail. Although trolleybuses that are like this are no longer produced, many new trams are still like this, while newer trams, including Melbourne's Zs, As, Bs and all low floor trams, all have batteries to power accessories, apparently they aren't powerful enough to power traction motors, and I don't fully understand why. Batteries don't need much capacity to briefly power motors under neutral sections in the wires.

*Dual straight electric and battery electric which can use external electricity where there is an overhead wire or third rail but with batteries to power it on unelectrified track, and maybe even under neutral sections in the wires. While auxiliary power units and standard on new trolleybuses and at least one new trolleybus system (somewhere in Sweden) has an unwired depot, most new trams still don't have this, even if built for new systems, the depots on them still being wired.
Auxiliary batteries would also allow for gaps in overhead wires, such as under low bridges where the wires would otherwise have to be lower than elsewhere.
Or if a network is mostly off-street and street running sections are short, auxiliary batteries would allow third-rail electrification only on off-street instead of overhead power throughout

*There are also a few electric trams which run entirely on battery power just like other battery electric vehicles, and analogous to any that runs on a liquid or gaseous fuel. These all have a range limitation, just that the range of those running on a gas and especially on oil, have a much longer range between refuelling than battery electric vehicles have between recharging.
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Re: Battery trams

Postby rogf24 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:41 pm

The Newcastle tram will be battery powered. Ok, not battery as in li-ion but supercapacitor with flash recharges at stops. They're like a battery but can hold much more charge but doesn't hold its charge for very long, hence the need to flash recharge frequently.
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Re: Battery trams

Postby tonyp » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:30 am

rogf24 wrote:The Newcastle tram will be battery powered. Ok, not battery as in li-ion but supercapacitor with flash recharges at stops. They're like a battery but can hold much more charge but doesn't hold its charge for very long, hence the need to flash recharge frequently.

Here are trams in Konya, Turkey running on batteries over a similar length to the Newcastle line but with in-motion charging, so doesn't need recharges at stops:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJL3c01Y59g
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Re: Battery trams

Postby moa999 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:10 pm

Konya has a 1.8km wire free section - but over 20km with wires so you have plenty of time to charge it elsewhere.

Totally different to Newcastle where the entire line is wire free (and indeed Sydney where you have a longer wire free loop). With improving battery technology you could probably convert Sydney to this style if APS proves unreliable.
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Re: Battery trams

Postby tonyp » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:47 pm

moa999 wrote:Konya has a 1.8km wire free section - but over 20km with wires so you have plenty of time to charge it elsewhere.

Totally different to Newcastle where the entire line is wire free (and indeed Sydney where you have a longer wire free loop). With improving battery technology you could probably convert Sydney to this style if APS proves unreliable.

Konya line 2 is 4.4 km of which 1.8 km is wire-free. The trams are exclusive to this route and don't recharge on other parts of the system. The trams have a wire-free range of 3 km. Sure, you would need wired extension of the Newcastle line to at least Broadmeadow for in-motion charging. The wire-free section in the CBD of CSELR would be easy meat for this tram, with a possible back-up of a stationary charge while waiting at Circular Quay.
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Re: Battery trams

Postby moa999 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:10 pm

Suspect it all depends on the batteries. Wouldn't be surprised if Newcastle has much lower battery capacity than Konya (saves $s and weight) so requires at-stop charging.
Changing it probably needs new fleet.

Agree the technology would probably make this possible in Sydney, possibly with CQ charging which shouldn't be an issue given the 3 platforms but the extra weight probably hurts you on all the hills to Randwick.
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Re: Battery trams

Postby tonyp » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:57 pm

The Newcastle CAFs are using supercapacitors I understand.

There's not much battery weight on an in-motion charging tram.
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