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New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Mr Twig » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:54 pm

matthewg wrote:
The term 'guard' has a specific meaning with very specific functions on the train. As the NIF trains are effectively DOO trains, the safe working functions of the guard are with the driver. The '2nd' person is no longer a 'guard' but a 'passenger services officer' or something. But not a 'guard'.

This has implications on the training and skills required of this person and probably more important to the RBTU - the pay this person receives.

If the 2nd person on board no longer performs any safe working function, you can sure the pay will be downgraded as well.

The Union will be fighting a losing battle here on the function and responsibility of the guards. The long-term trend has been for driver only operation worldwide (and now towards no driver at all!). Staff on board a train, if there is any at all, will be customer service only and will have no (Well normally anyway) safe working or actual train operation function.

The pay for these staff will be adjusted accordingly.


The RTBU seems to think the NIF will have guards.
https://www.rtbuexpress.com.au/rtbu-nsw ... s-wrap-up/

After years of the NSW Government planning to remove guards from the New Intercity Fleet, this year we finally got a commitment from the NSW Transport Minister that the new trains will have guards. This is a huge turnaround from the position that the NIF Committee have been battling with NSW Trains for years. While we’re yet to see the commitment in writing, it’s a win for all drivers, guards and everyone else involved in keeping our tracks safe.


Wait and see I guess.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:11 pm

Doesn't mean they're incapable of not having them though...
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:15 pm

The project page has this vid that shows off a lot of the new features, including B Set style PID's that actually show useful things.

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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Transtopic » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:25 pm

I wonder what the feed-back is on the fixed seats?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:36 pm

No disrespect, but I feel most of the people in this workshop would not be affected by sitting backwards.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Transtopic » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:58 pm

boronia wrote:No disrespect, but I feel most of the people in this workshop would not be affected by sitting backwards.

Point taken.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Linto63 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:18 pm

Transtopic wrote:I wonder what the feed-back is on the fixed seats?
It'll be an issue, but you can't have power/usb points and reversible seating.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Transtopic » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:38 pm

Linto63 wrote:
Transtopic wrote:I wonder what the feed-back is on the fixed seats?
It'll be an issue, but you can't have power/usb points and reversible seating.

The just released specification for the new Regional train fleet states that it will have reversible seating with the facility for customers to recharge their electronic devices from their seat, so it must be possible for the New Intercity Fleet. Does this suggest that the NIF may have reversible seating after all, following feed-back from the public?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:47 pm

The renderings for the regional carriages show power points and USB outlets mounted on the walls under the windows.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Linto63 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:10 pm

boronia wrote:The renderings for the regional carriages show power points and USB outlets mounted on the walls under the windows.
The TfNSW video above has them (or at least some) in between the seats. Perhaps wall mounted for the window seat, seat mounted for the aisle seat?

Apparently the guy who designed the reversible seats n the Oscars came up with a design for the NIF that met the requirements, but it was rejected by the Brits who are now running the project. Having seen what the latest god awful offerings in the UK last year, where the mandarins decided to spec the interiors and ignore the input of the operators, I am not filled with confidence.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby tonyp » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:03 pm

If they rejected seats designed by the Oscar seat designer then they've made the right decision. Things can only look up from that deepest of low points.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Linto63 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:28 pm

Don't bet, the UK transport department specced trains have bolt upright seating with cigarette paper thick padding, and guess who is speccing the NIFs. Might not be erverybody's cup of tea, but there are worse seats than the Oscars.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby matthewg » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:58 am

tonyp wrote:If they rejected seats designed by the Oscar seat designer then they've made the right decision. Things can only look up from that deepest of low points.


There is nothing wrong at all with the Oscar seats if your body shape matches that of the designer. They work fine for me. Presumably, I'm a similar shape to the designer or the 'reference body' used.

Given the utter horror expressed by your average Australian at the idea of sitting backwards to the direction of travel, I suspect Oscar style seats that don't fit a significant portion of the population would be preferred over sitting backwards.

(And there will certainly be a portion of the population that ignoring the fixed direction, will find the NIF seats uncomfortable too.)
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby tonyp » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:42 am

The reference body for the Oscar would have a military-straight spine and a big, fat, cushiony bottom and thighs. That doesn't sound one bit like you Matthew! ;)
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby rogf24 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:10 am

I've got used to the Oscar seats and they're ok now. Not great but doesn't work too bad for a 2-3 hour trip. The later Oscars are still better than the earlier Oscars (H31 and onwards I think). The Hunter cars used to have the earlier harder Oscar seats but have been updated to the later seats with more padding, I wonder if the earlier Oscars will ever get the Hunter seating update? Nothing beats the G-sets in 2x3 seating though.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby quaidy » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:28 pm

Most people these days have their head down and hands on a gadget and probably couldn’t care less which way they are facing
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby MotorOmnibus8562 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:27 am

Andrew Constance MP Facebook wrote: Great news for commuters in the Illawarra & South Coast... New train carriages & thousands of extra seats are on their way, in order to meet skyrocketing demand for services.
We're delivering:

An additional 42 new Intercity Fleet carriages, which will see 8 car trains increased to 10 car trains for peak hour services, providing an extra 13,000 seats for South Coast commuters during the busiest times of the week.

Expanded weekend services, which will see most 4 car trains increased to 8 car trains - adding 20,000 extra seats for services between Kiama, Wollongong & Sydney.

This can only happen because of the economic management of the NSW Liberals & Nationals Government.


Looks like 42 More NIFs are on the way......
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Linto63 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:40 pm

The last line, pass me a bucket please. Queensland and Western Australia have been running deficit budgets for a decade, yet they have managed to finance new trains. The greatest real estate boom we are ever likely to see, how could the NSW government not be rolling in cash.

What it didn't mention was that the NIFs were going to see a 5-10% drop off in South Coast seat numbers courtesy of the NIFs being 2+2 instead of 2+3, so this is partially reversing that. We are getting to the stage where much like happened on the Sydney network, 8 cars need to be the norm in the off-peaks and on Sundays, perhaps splitting / joining at Gosford, Katoomba and Wollongong.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:00 pm

MotorOmnibus8562 wrote:
Andrew Constance MP Facebook wrote: Great news for commuters in the Illawarra & South Coast... New train carriages & thousands of extra seats are on their way, in order to meet skyrocketing demand for services.
We're delivering:

An additional 42 new Intercity Fleet carriages, which will see 8 car trains increased to 10 car trains for peak hour services, providing an extra 13,000 seats for South Coast commuters during the busiest times of the week.

Expanded weekend services, which will see most 4 car trains increased to 8 car trains - adding 20,000 extra seats for services between Kiama, Wollongong & Sydney.

This can only happen because of the economic management of the NSW Liberals & Nationals Government.


Looks like 42 More NIFs are on the way......

Is that 42 extra cars for the previously announced order, or just a comparison with the existing fleet? The 10-car concept has been around for quite a while.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby swtt » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:25 pm

I'll take a frequency increase anyday over just a one for one seat replacement. So whilst there has been a decrease in the number of seats per 8 car train, this would actually increase capacity overall.

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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:49 pm

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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby rogf24 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:00 pm

^An extra 42 carriages NIF ordered, brings total to 554 cars now.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Aurora » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:48 pm

The Government seems concerned it might lose in March. Extensions to the NIF and B Set orders and other cash being splashed elsewhere.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:59 pm

Best to get the ball rolling now, before Labor has a chance to do nothing
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Frosty » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:13 pm

We all know the Labor strategy to transport is oppose everything and say silly things like bring back (insert bus route or train line). I'll be interested to see if OSCARs will still operate on the South Coast on local services or peak hour extension of Sydney suburban trains.
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