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Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Perth / Western Australia Transport Discussion

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby esperanceguy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:44 am

I've been catching up on all the posts in the thread, going back to the beginning.

A few years back there was talk of the PT opportunities in and around the Pinjarra area, I think before the 600 came into being; two years ago there was the trial of buses in the Shire of Murray, which unfortunately came to an end due to lack of patronage, some time last year.

Completely disregarding that last fact, and whilst still dreaming big, I present to you the following:

[b]Route 607 Boddington-Ranford-Crossman-Ranford-Boddington-Dwellingup-Pinjarra[/b] Monday-Friday
Commencing outside the Shire Offices at 9.20am, to meet Perth to Albany bus, at Crossman at 9.40am, with about five or ten mins on either side of that to make up for early runnings or delays;
Also connecting with the Perth to Esperance bus at 9.56am Mon/Wed/Fri
Depart Crossman around 10.10am, stopping at the crossroads in Ranford for pickups, arrival Shire Offices 10.30am
Depart Shire Offices 10.45am, Express Service to Dwellingup... or as much "express" as one would dare to drive along that dodgy road! :lol:
Arrival Dwellingup around 11.15am, depart around five mins later.
Arrival Pinjarra around 11.45am - my dream by the time this was implemented, is to have route 600 services running every 30-45 mins both directions Pinjarra-Mandurah.
Depart Pinjarra 12noon, connections at Mandurah, etc.

Depart Pinjarra around 11.15am, arrive Boddington about 12.30, depart 12.40, drop off passengers at Ranford crossroads, continue on to Crossman to meet the bus from Albany at 1.12pm
Bus returns to Boddington at 1.30pm.
Depart Boddington 1.45pm, arrive Pinjarra around 2.45pm

Depart Boddington 2.30pm school days

Depart Pinjarra 2.30pm, arrive Boddington 3.30pm
3.45pm Boddington to Crossman, to connect with Esperance-Perth bus at 4.15pm Mon/Wed/Fri

Depart Pinjarra 3.30pm school days


Thursdays
An extra shopper service departs Ranford at 8am & 9am
Extra shopper service departs Pinjarra at 6pm & 7pm


Weekends
Boddington to Pinjarra 9am 10am 11am Sat & Sun
Pinjarra to Boddington 10.30am 1.30pm 3pm Sat & Sun


So that's Ranford/Boddington to Pinjarra
Weekdays 9am 10.45am 1.45pm 2.30pm
Thurs 8am 9am 10.45am 1.45pm 2.30pm

Pinjarra to Boddington/Ranford
Weekdays 11.15am 2.30pm 3.30pm
Thurs 11.15am 2.30pm 3.30pm 6pm 7pm


Completely impossible to implement, almost impossible to get correct timings, 110% unlikely to ever even be thought about, and after the 60-90 mins it took me to do this up in Notepad prior to formatting here, I can see the utter fruitlessness of such an endeavour - but still fun to try out!! :shock: :roll:
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby pasha241 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:23 pm

os91 wrote:


Just another small idea. The 501 is very close the Transperth’s definition of a “High Frequency Route” (every 15 mins 7-7 weekdays, 8-7 Sat, 9-7 Sun). The only time it falls short is Saturday and Sunday evening services, where the 15 min frequency finishes around 6:30 and 5:30 respectively. In each direction, only 1 more Saturday evening and 3 more Sunday evening services are needed to qualify the 501 as a “High Frequency Route”. I don’t know how busy the 501 weekend evening services are, but if they have a decent amount of people, then the 501 converted to another 900s route would be a good addition to the High Frequency service network with only a relatively small increase in service needed.


Not Only 501. 507 already has high frequency however on sunday it has 30 minutes frequency if it increase to 15 min it can will have criteria of high frequency

However i have an weird idea of Make a new route of 9xx that Merge Route 501 + 507 (Fremantle - Marmion St - Booragoon - Bull Creek - Southlands - Lynwood - Cannington). It operats similar of how they operate 960 and 950. It operated by Transdev (Palmyra) and SWan (Canning Vale, Beckenham and some SR Bus). However it will be long as 507 not really use direct route from Bull creek to cannington as most of 9xx that merge previous route has a direct route

Another Idea is merge 522 and 512 it will Run From Murdoch to Cockburn via COOGEE beach. that make people easily to connect between cogee and cockburn/murdoch

Also I like to change 532 and 160 Route

532
from Freo: Queen St, High St, Hampton Rd, South St, Fifth Ave, Lefroy St, York St, Clontarf RdParnell Rd, Continues to normal R
to Freo: normal route untul parnell Rd,Clontarf St, York St, Lefroy St, Fifth Ave, South St, Hampton Rd, Stirling St, High St, Queen St

160
from Freo: Market St, South Tce, Duoro Rd, Hampton Rd, Clontarf Rd, Carrington St, Winterford Rd, Instone St, Oldham Cr, Continuto normal route
to Freo: normal route until Oldham Cr, Instone St, Winterford Rd,Carrington St, Clontarf Rd, Hampton Rd, Duoro Rd, SoTce, Market St

also I like to remove 150 and replace 150 with 160 that terminate at Willagee also in the after 3pm all 150 from booragoon will replace by full 160 route
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Merc1107 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:55 pm

pasha241 wrote:However i have an weird idea of Make a new route of 9xx that Merge Route 501 + 507
Not a bad idea, really. Although a train connection at Bull Creek would or could slow things down dramatically (a good example is the 558 at Warnbro Stn., and how long that can wait there due to connections it makes).

pasha241 wrote:Another Idea is merge 522 and 512 it will Run From Murdoch to Cockburn via COOGEE beach. that make people easily to connect between cogee and cockburn/murdoch
The 512 could easily be extended to Port Coogee in the future, giving a fast and fairly direct connection to Murdoch. I don't think extending via most of the 522 route would accomplish much, as the service was cut to its current frequency several years ago due to very poor patronage (the 512 was introduced at the same time). This isn't surprising given the area the 522 serves.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby pasha241 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:21 pm

Merc1107 wrote:
pasha241 wrote:However i have an weird idea of Make a new route of 9xx that Merge Route 501 + 507
Not a bad idea, really. Although a train connection at Bull Creek would or could slow things down dramatically (a good example is the 558 at Warnbro Stn., and how long that can wait there due to connections it makes).
\


maybe they can use the same way as circle route how they connect at Murdoch Stn and Stirling Stn
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Squiddy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:08 pm

Merc1107 wrote:Not a bad idea, really. Although a train connection at Bull Creek would or could slow things down dramatically (a good example is the 558 at Warnbro Stn., and how long that can wait there due to connections it makes).


I still don't really understand why the 558 goes from Rockingham to Warnbro at all... That route is mirrored exactly by the 559 (which I'll admit is little more than a glorified school service as reflected by its timetable) and 561, with the 562 and 557 running Warnbro-Rockingham as well. Not to mention the train...
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Shoudy Chen » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:22 pm

If i were you I would
Reroute Route 48 so that it goes via Bulwer St, and Lord St. Continue on normal route to Morley.
Get rid of Route 66 and replace it with additional Route 950 peak hour services.
Re-route the Route 160 via Hampton Rd, Lefroy Rd, Carrington St, Winterfold Rd, Collick St, left onto South St cont normal route.
Add extra services of Route 210 on Sundays/Public Holidays from Thornlie to Gosnells.
An extra service of Route 220 on Sundays/Public Holidays.
Rerouting Route 447 from Dugdale St, right onto Ellersdale Av, left onto Erindale Rd. Continue on normal route to Whitfords.
Extend Route 72 to Cannington on Sundays/Public Holidays. Rerouting Route 72 from Curtin Uni, Adie Ct, Jarrah Rd, Riverview Rd, Devenish St, Basinghall St, Berwick St. Continue on normal route to EQBS.
Axe Route 956 (Bassendean Station -Ellenbrook and make it an all-Route 955 service from Morley/Bassendean to Ellenbrook.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby pasha241 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:42 pm

Shoudy Chen wrote:If i were you I would
Reroute Route 48 so that it goes via Bulwer St, and Lord St. Continue on normal route to Morley.
Get rid of Route 66 and replace it with additional Route 950 peak hour services.
Re-route the Route 160 via Hampton Rd, Lefroy Rd, Carrington St, Winterfold Rd, Collick St, left onto South St cont normal route.
Add extra services of Route 210 on Sundays/Public Holidays from Thornlie to Gosnells.
An extra service of Route 220 on Sundays/Public Holidays.
Rerouting Route 447 from Dugdale St, right onto Ellersdale Av, left onto Erindale Rd. Continue on normal route to Whitfords.
Extend Route 72 to Cannington on Sundays/Public Holidays. Rerouting Route 72 from Curtin Uni, Adie Ct, Jarrah Rd, Riverview Rd, Devenish St, Basinghall St, Berwick St. Continue on normal route to EQBS.
Axe Route 956 (Bassendean Station -Ellenbrook and make it an all-Route 955 service from Morley/Bassendean to Ellenbrook.


for 160 i like ur idea however i prever to use 532 from clontarf rd to fremantle stn

while 532 use 160 route via south st, right caesar st, left lefroy st, right york st, right clontarf rd left parmell rd

220 should be 1 hour on sunday or at least 90 min. also it should be 30 min afternoon peak to city
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Off The Rails » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:19 pm

220 shouldn't have any changes. Saturday services barely get anyone on between Armadale and Cannington, and they're every hour.

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Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby TP1462 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:47 pm

The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby busdriver12 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:26 pm

TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


The main selling point for the 220/249 is access to Armadale Hospital. I think you'd have a hard time convincing someone using a zimmer frame they're better off walking from Sherwood station up the hill to the hospital.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby 1whoknows » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:50 am

If I were in charge I would direct the production of an actual printed route map for the Perth system. This is the great missing element in how to get around as journey planners give no real concept of options, particularly for cross country journeys.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Off The Rails » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:23 pm

The closest we have to that is the network maps, which are 10 maps showing every route service on that map. There isn't one which has every route on it, from memory.

https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Journe ... twork-Maps

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Leyland B21 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:40 pm

busdriver12 wrote:
TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


The main selling point for the 220/249 is access to Armadale Hospital. I think you'd have a hard time convincing someone using a zimmer frame they're better off walking from Sherwood station up the hill to the hospital.
Having lived on Albany Hwy a couple of houses down from Galliers Ave for the first 20yrs of my life, agreed the hill is a bit of a climb. I lived opposite Carawatha Avenue so if you lived on that stretch of road, walking from Sherwood Station was a task. I'm curious though. Former route 219 had great loadings between Armadale and Kelmscott let alone the bulk of the route and more frequent services. Last bus would leave Perth at 11.30pm. Sad to hear that it's not performing now as route 220 but my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.

Also take into account the loadings were good without the hospital back then as the hospital was nothing more than an emergency ward and a clinic whilst I lived there

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Merc1107 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:59 pm

Leyland B21 wrote:I'm curious though. Former route 219 had great loadings between Armadale and Kelmscott let alone the bulk of the route and more frequent services. Last bus would leave Perth at 11.30pm. Sad to hear that it's not performing now as route 220 but my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.
At the risk of sending the thread off-topic, if patronage is falling, I have to wonder if it is due to changing demographics and transport options in the area? Perhaps more people in the area can now afford to run a car (as the outer suburbs are rapidly becoming what is most affordable for middle-income earners), or have better access to transport in some other way.
I'm not sure how the frequency of the Armadale line has evolved over time, but that might play a part in the bus slowly loosing favour.

Leyland B21 wrote:my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.
Agreed. Moving back towards the topic, in relation to bus routes, if I were in charge, I'd engage in a massive advertisement campaign to highlight to specific suburbs the travel options available to them, particularly feeders or mainline routes and the various connectivity options they provide. The average Perthite who chooses to use their car and not the bus probably hasn't the slightest clue about service in their area, and would likely make use of public transport with some gentle persuasion... Many suburbs (particularly around Bull Creek, Murdoch & Cockburn) have between 2-5 services with peak frequencies of at least 15mins.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Squiddy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:32 am

Completely agree. I think this is more important now than ever, with the high-frequency services like 950, 960 and 970 offering fairly competitive travel times compared to driving and offering a route and frequency more like a train service than a bus. But I'd wager the average person who drives everywhere wouldn't have a clue that these services exist and would likely still assume buses took long winding routes around the suburbs, taking 30min to cover what a car can do in 10. I'd also like to see them bring back the 'high frequency' livery that adorned some of the earlier Merc O405NHs, I reckon decorating a few buses like that (especially the six new artics 3096-99, 3100-02, which were primarily delivered to run 950s) could work wonders.
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