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Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby On Air » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:00 pm

tonyp wrote:
Blue Ribbon wrote:The three cars photographed are no longer part of the Railcorp core collection. They have recently been given away to SETS (no money has changed hands) and the State Govenrment is now no longer responsible for them.

Well that's probably a blessing - as long as, I hope, SETS is kind to them.

If 3082 and 3104 aren't considered historically 'core' I can't guess what RailCorp considers significant. There would be barely any suburban cars in their ownership that were more significant than those two.


And what of 4279? If SETS has the wood bodied motor and 4279 remains part of the H collection, shall the two ever meet? Nothing worse than boots with no laces!
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby User xxx » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:43 pm

I am wondering what kind of blockheads they have in the new south wales government don`t they know these three electric cars are priceless they damn well or should know with half brain that the bradfield car and sister car at thirlmere are the only ones left I got onto the sets and there is bugger all about these cars so hope the hell there alright and not been sent to sims cause I reckon there be a uproar if these are scrap route660.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Dave Wilson » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:07 pm

Although T 4279 is notionally an exhibit of the RTM, in recent years it has fallen into the hands of the very Balkan minded HET. I hate to think what its fate will be. I think it will have to be rescued by commandos.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby On Air » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:14 pm

Dave Wilson wrote:Although T 4279 is notionally an exhibit of the RTM, in recent years it has fallen into the hands of the very Balkan minded HET. I hate to think what its fate will be. I think it will have to be rescued by commandos.


HET and SETS could be likened to Churchill and Stalin, notionally of the same purpose yet secretly one wishing to bury the other.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby jac » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:23 pm

AEC Decker wrote:Also the Walsh Bay (3104 and sisters) with single motors that used to wheelspin out of the station if the driver notched them up too quick.


That's the first time i've heard of single motor cars.
I always thought of motor cars as having 2 motors or 4 motors in later years.
However, i can recall that some cars in a set would wheelspin more than others out of stations.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Dave Wilson » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:43 pm

On Air wrote:HET and SETS could be likened to Churchill and Stalin, notionally of the same purpose yet secretly one wishing to bury the other.


Well put.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby TOXANA » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:51 pm

Well of course if they had all been sent to Sims metal to start with then you wouldn't have to worry about what cars are going where and 4279 would look exquisite in the fireplace of my mates home down in Kookoomajira so he could keep his feet warm on those cold Alpine nights.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby tonyp » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:38 pm

TOXANA wrote:Well of course if they had all been sent to Sims metal to start with then you wouldn't have to worry about what cars are going where and 4279 would look exquisite in the fireplace of my mates home down in Kookoomajira so he could keep his feet warm on those cold Alpine nights.

Well put from the Stalin camp! Lets hear it from the Churchills. :)

At some point (this being a photo thread) we should thank Dave for his excellent photos. :wink:
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby On Air » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:37 am

jac wrote:
AEC Decker wrote:Also the Walsh Bay (3104 and sisters) with single motors that used to wheelspin out of the station if the driver notched them up too quick.


That's the first time i've heard of single motor cars.
I always thought of motor cars as having 2 motors or 4 motors in later years.
However, i can recall that some cars in a set would wheelspin more than others out of stations.


Single motors? There was a period, due to poor maintenance when the two motor equipped standard cars would often run with one motor cut-out which often resulted in wheel spin in wet weather.

3104 is a Leeds Forge car of 1924 vintage and was part of the first batch of 50 steel bodied cars delivered and first ran as a non control motor numbered in the 36' series as part of steam hauled sets, along with the wood bodied motors. The last time I saw it 3104 was more original than 3102. It's a crying shame that 04 was a victim of internal SRA politics and the machinations of certain selfish individuals who laughingly called them selves preservationists.

I'm not sure, but 3444 could be a Clyde motor of a 1930s build or at the very least a Walsh Island car-built at the State Dockyards at Newcastle. Like the Leeds cars the Walsh Island examples had a plate affixed to the base of each entrance stating the manufacturer and the year of construction.

3082 along with 3045 are our best hopes of ever seeing two of the cars that started off electric train services in this state running together. There is one other car which went to the Rothbury Riot Railway-ex Chullora Band car 3080, but I have heard in recent times that it sits with a broken back, exposed to the elements and is all but lost to us. I believe wood bodied trailer 4186 also went to Rothbury.3059 went to Hornsby MC as a fitter's instructional car but was never used as such and was for years used as a Trimer's workshop. 3059 was substantially complete right down to an original cab with motor type voltage regulator! 3059 was broken up in 1986.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby On Air » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:49 am

tonyp wrote:
TOXANA wrote:Well of course if they had all been sent to Sims metal to start with then you wouldn't have to worry about what cars are going where and 4279 would look exquisite in the fireplace of my mates home down in Kookoomajira so he could keep his feet warm on those cold Alpine nights.

Well put from the Stalin camp! Lets hear it from the Churchills. :)

At some point (this being a photo thread) we should thank Dave for his excellent photos. :wink:


You guess which camp is Churchill and which Stalin! :?:
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Dave Wilson » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:57 am

And worst of all there are the appeasers.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby AEC Decker » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:10 pm

jac wrote:That's the first time i've heard of single motor cars.
I always thought of motor cars as having 2 motors or 4 motors in later years.

I meant one powered bogie. :roll:
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Dave Wilson » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:05 pm

Image
The good ole days - a W set at Tempe in 1991

Image

An early SETS tour with 3102 in the lead, coupled to 4527T - I think it's at Hurlstone Park C 1993 after the set had been painted in Venetian Red (an off the shelf paintshop colour) with correct buff lines.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Blue Ribbon » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:16 pm

The following list shows the status of cars after this round of disposals.
Green for Keep at RTM
Blue for Retain in Core Collection
Red for Disposal

C 3045 s/d sub power car RTM Thirlmere Retain
C 3082 s/d sub power car RailCorp De-Access
C 3102 s/d sub power car RailCorp Retain
C 3104 s/d sub power car RailCorp Being stripped De-Access
C 3218 s/d sub power car RailCorp Set F1
C 3237 s/d sub power car RailCorp For parts De-Access Strip for parts & bogies
C 3426 s/d sub power car RailCorp Set F1
C 3444 s/d sub power car RailCorp For parts De-Access
C 3650 Wash Bug RailCorp For parts De-Access Strip for parts
C 3653 Parcel Van RailCorp Retain
C 3660 Wash Bug RailCorp For parts De-Access Strip for parts
C 3702 s/d sub power car RailCorp Set W3
C 3708 s/d sub power car RailCorp Set W3

C 3804 s/d sub power car RTM Thirlmere Retain
C 7396 s/d sub power car RailCorp Set F1
C 7485 s/d sub power car RailCorp Retain

CF 5008 s/d i/u power car RailCorp Being stripped De-Access Unknown Remove bogies
CF 5015 s/d i/u power car RailCorp Retain Chullora Set U2
CF 5017 s/d i/u power car RailCorp Retain Set U2 CA
CF 5035 s/d i/u power car RailCorp Retain Repository Spare power car

CF 5036 s/d i/u power car RailCorp Being stripped De-Access Unknown Remove bogies
CF 5037 s/d i/u power car RailCorp Being stripped De-Access De-Access Unknown Remove bogies

D 4052 s/d sub power car RailCorp Retain Set F1
ETB 6029 s/d i/u trailer RailCorp Retain Chullora Set U2

ETB 6039 s/d i/u trailer car RailCorp Valley Heights De-Access RTM want for VH
T 4279 s/d sub trailer (wooden) RailCorp Retain
T 4310 RTM Thirlmere
T 4527 s/d sub trailer RailCorp Set F1
T 4554 s/d sub trailer RailCorp Set F1
T 4790 s/d sub trailer RailCorp Retain
T 4801 d/d sub RailCorp Operational Retain Chullora W3
T 4814 d/d sub RailCorp Operational Retain Chullora W3

TF 6013 s/d i/u trailer RailCorp Retain Set U2
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Dave Wilson » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:40 pm

I think it scandalous that a car as precious as 3237 could be scrapped for parts in 2008.It's not as if the preserved stock are about to blow up MV 202 motors in any hurry by doing regular public passenger runs. We'll be lucky to see them do any passenger mileage in the near future, if ever, again.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby TOXANA » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:43 am

On Air wrote:3104 is a Leeds Forge car of 1924 vintage and was part of the first batch of 50 steel bodied cars delivered and first ran as a non control motor numbered in the 36' series as part of steam hauled sets, along with the wood bodied motors.

You are half right. C3104 was a steam hauled car for a short time but its steam hauled number was 2250.
The 3600 series non driving control motor cars you are referring to came abit later N3601 - N3642 which became driving control cars C3209 - C3250 two to three years after they entered service.

On Air wrote:I'm not sure, but 3444 could be a Clyde motor of a 1930s build or at the very least a Walsh Island car-built at the State Dockyards at Newcastle.

C3444 was part of a unique batch of 12 motor cars called Modified Standards which were built in 1937 by Clyde Engineering numbered C3441 - C3452.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby On Air » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:59 am

TOXANA wrote:
On Air wrote:3104 is a Leeds Forge car of 1924 vintage and was part of the first batch of 50 steel bodied cars delivered and first ran as a non control motor numbered in the 36' series as part of steam hauled sets, along with the wood bodied motors.

You are half right. C3104 was a steam hauled car for a short time but its steam hauled number was 2250.
The 3600 series non driving control motor cars you are referring to came abit later N3601 - N3642 which became driving control cars C3209 - C3250 two to three years after they entered service.

On Air wrote:I'm not sure, but 3444 could be a Clyde motor of a 1930s build or at the very least a Walsh Island car-built at the State Dockyards at Newcastle.

C3444 was part of a unique batch of 12 motor cars called Modified Standards which were built in 1937 by Clyde Engineering numbered C3441 - C3452.


Thanks Toxana, I wasn't sure about the numbers, I should have checked my books first. Wasn't a Bradfield motor fitted with GE elec gear identical to Melbourne's Taits or swing doors and numbered in the 21 or 22 series??

I have the builders plate from 3449,he,he!
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby TOXANA » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:02 am

On Air wrote:Wasn't a Bradfield motor fitted with GE elec gear identical to Melbourne's Taits or swing doors and numbered in the 21 or 22 series??

Yeah, sometime between Melbourne and Sydney being electrified, the NSW Govt borrowed electric operating gear for testing in what was to later become C3091. The Bradfield cars were numbered in the 2100 and 2200 series before they got their electric numbers.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby TOXANA » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:47 am

An interior shot of the late C3104 which was in immaculate condition when it was retired from service almost 17 years ago.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby tonyp » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:50 am

^^
Absolute scandal.

What does "C 3104 s/d sub power car RailCorp Being stripped De-Access" mean? Being stripped of what? It looks externaly intact in Dave's photo. Has it been stripped or is something else happening before it gets to SETS?
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Blue Ribbon » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:45 pm

I understand that this once complete and operable car (C3104) is now missing some parts.
The scandal continues. Powerhosue Museum owned steam crane 1082 was removed from the LES yesterday and the Governor General car to go soon, to make way for electric cars from Carriage Works. Railcorp is prepared to evict the Powerhouse Museum to make way for the electric cars. I'm tipping 3801 Ltd will be the next to be removed.
This Government is a joke!


tonyp wrote:^^
Absolute scandal.

What does "C 3104 s/d sub power car RailCorp Being stripped De-Access" mean? Being stripped of what? It looks externaly intact in Dave's photo. Has it been stripped or is something else happening before it gets to SETS?
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby On Air » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:21 pm

Hey Guys, whilst on the albeit more unpleasant area of the electric train scene may I mention a brighter note? Has anyone here availed themselves of a copy of Stephen Halgren's book "Sydney's Electric Trains"?It covers a great deal of the saga of our suburban trains and has been compiled in a way that will keep the newcomer interested from cover-to-cover. Some of the pics are fabulous, with my favorites, the Wooden cars featured in some outstandingly crisp shots in the richest of colours.

Get a copy to ease the pain caused by the heinous rotters and bounders that are determined to get rid of OUR items of cultural and heritage significance whilst HET and SETS race to self destruction in an implosion of self righteousness that has probably reached critical mass.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Dave Wilson » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:46 pm

Blue Ribbon wrote:Powerhosue Museum owned steam crane 1082 was removed from the LES yesterday and the Governor General car to go soon, to make way for electric cars from Carriage Works. Railcorp is prepared to evict the Powerhouse Museum to make way for the electric cars. I'm tipping 3801 Ltd will be the next to be removed.


I wouldn't be too worried about Powerhouse exhibits - to offend the Powerhouse is to offend the Premier, Minister for the Arts, whose portfolio the Powerhouse Museum falls under. Its just a pity that the entire LES complex and its contents (present and future), could not be put under the control of the Powerhouse Museum so that the collections can be removed from the influence of private organisations whose heritage intentions and practices are highly questionable.
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby tonyp » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:16 pm

^^
LOL there was a time when the Powerhouse Museum's heritage intentions and practices were highly questionable. Remember the change from the wonderfful old MAAS to the trendy shopwindow front style that came with the new powerhouse - and all the good stuff went off into storage at Castle Hill? However now they're opening Castle Hill and I suspect there is a maturing of attitude and less attempts at being super-trendy. But yes certainly better in their care than tender mercies of someone else. Perhaps the Powerhouse might like to take 3082 and 3104?
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Re: Red Ratters and Artics today inc a Fuji.

Postby Blue Ribbon » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:02 am

David
If you want to start up the whole RTM Vs 3801 Ltd this again, go right ahead. Cheap shots at 3801 Ltd are not what the preservation movement needs right now. As for the Powerhouse collection, they have well and truly rejected any relocation to Thirlmere. No doubt we can expect a pro RTM response from you.

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I wouldn't be too worried about Powerhouse exhibits - to offend the Powerhouse is to offend the Premier, Minister for the Arts, whose portfolio the Powerhouse Museum falls under. Its just a pity that the entire LES complex and its contents (present and future), could not be put under the control of the Powerhouse Museum so that the collections can be removed from the influence of private organisations whose heritage intentions and practices are highly questionable.[/quote]
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