Parramatta light rail

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simonl
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Parramatta light rail

Post by simonl »

Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints light rail route will be built in Sydney Olympic Park

Date
November 26, 2015 - 5:40PM

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M4 East tunnel design revealed

The M4 East tunnels will connect the M4 and M5 motorways with entry and exit points at Homebush, North Strathfield and Haberfield. No sound. Supplied: NSW Govt.

Roads Minister Duncan Gay has all but confirmed his government will build a light rail line from Parramatta to Sydney Olympic Park.

Announcing the construction of a westbound off-ramp from the M4 Motorway at Hill Road as part of the redevelopment of an industrial area in Lidcombe, the minister appeared to spill the beans on the government's light rail plans.

"Increasingly this is going to be a residential area, we need to look after them," Mr Gay said when asked about congestion in the Sydney Olympic Park area.
The Carter Street industrial precinct near Sydney Olympic Park will be turned into a new community with 5,500 homes.

The Carter Street industrial precinct near Sydney Olympic Park will be turned into a new community with 5,500 homes.

"We will be having light rail, that will be coming through this sector. There are bus routes and this will be an improvement of the road infrastructure which will be linking with WestConnex which will be opening stage one in 2019.
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"We're going, in a comprehensive, coordinated way, about putting the transport in place before the residential."

The minister later issued a statement: "While a light rail route to Sydney Olympic Park is under serious consideration, no final decision has been made."

The state government has been considering which of four light rail routes to build from Parramatta for more than a year and the delay in a decision has caused frustration for some.

Sources have said the route announcement is on hold until the state government determines how to fund the construction through "value capture", a finance mechanism that seeks to regain the value uplift properties get from being located near public transport.

Two routes - Parramatta to Macquarie Park via Carlingford and Parramatta to Strathfield via Sydney Olympic Park - have emerged as front runners and there has been speculation that the government is considering building both simultaneously using value capture.

Mr Gay's comments came as he said a westbound off-ramp from the M4 at Hill Road would be built by 2019, news that will be welcomed by thousands of residents and workers in the Sydney Olympic Park area.

Residents have long argued the ramp was needed to relieve traffic congestion in the area, including at the DFO/Homebush roundabout, which has been dubbed Sydney's worst.

An east bound on-ramp to the M4 was included in plans for the WestConnex motorway, but residents were told that an west bound off-ramp would be too difficult and expensive.

The new ramp and upgrades to roads will cost about $200 million but rather than being added to the WestConnex bill, the construction will be funded as part of the redevelopment of a run down industrial area around Carter Street in Lidcombe.

The government has rezoned the precinct to allow for the construction of 5500 homes, a new park and school and space for commercial offices and light industry.
Artist impression

Wentworth Point, a nearby residential redevelopment that has seen thousands of apartments built on a peninsula with one one entry and exit road, has been labelled a planning failure.

But Planning Minister Rob Stokes said he was "supremely confident" that the the Carter Street project would be a success.

"This is a really central location. It makes good sense to build around transit oriented development and that's what this is about," Mr Stokes said.

"What we have got is some decaying former industrial land which is not being effectively utilised. We've got be more efficient in our use of space in Sydney, particularly in areas that are well connected to existing and proposed transport projects".

NSW Opposition leader Luke Foley, who is also shadow minister for western Sydney, said the ramp was a "small step" towards giving Sydney Olympic Park the transport connections it needed. The government, he said, also needed to reinstate direct rail services between the city and Olympic Park via Strathfield.

When asked to confirm Mr Gay's comments that light rail would be built to Sydney Olympic Park, Mr Stokes said the government was still considering the four options.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/roads-ministe ... z3sdftmNQh
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook
Well, we knew it wasn't going to Macquarie Park when they decided not to go via Eastwood.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by Transtopic »

simonl wrote:
Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints light rail route will be built in Sydney Olympic Park

Date
November 26, 2015 - 5:40PM

481 reading now

Melanie Kembrey
Melanie Kembrey
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M4 East tunnel design revealed

The M4 East tunnels will connect the M4 and M5 motorways with entry and exit points at Homebush, North Strathfield and Haberfield. No sound. Supplied: NSW Govt.

Roads Minister Duncan Gay has all but confirmed his government will build a light rail line from Parramatta to Sydney Olympic Park.

Announcing the construction of a westbound off-ramp from the M4 Motorway at Hill Road as part of the redevelopment of an industrial area in Lidcombe, the minister appeared to spill the beans on the government's light rail plans.

"Increasingly this is going to be a residential area, we need to look after them," Mr Gay said when asked about congestion in the Sydney Olympic Park area.
The Carter Street industrial precinct near Sydney Olympic Park will be turned into a new community with 5,500 homes.

The Carter Street industrial precinct near Sydney Olympic Park will be turned into a new community with 5,500 homes.

"We will be having light rail, that will be coming through this sector. There are bus routes and this will be an improvement of the road infrastructure which will be linking with WestConnex which will be opening stage one in 2019.
Advertisement

"We're going, in a comprehensive, coordinated way, about putting the transport in place before the residential."

The minister later issued a statement: "While a light rail route to Sydney Olympic Park is under serious consideration, no final decision has been made."

The state government has been considering which of four light rail routes to build from Parramatta for more than a year and the delay in a decision has caused frustration for some.

Sources have said the route announcement is on hold until the state government determines how to fund the construction through "value capture", a finance mechanism that seeks to regain the value uplift properties get from being located near public transport.

Two routes - Parramatta to Macquarie Park via Carlingford and Parramatta to Strathfield via Sydney Olympic Park - have emerged as front runners and there has been speculation that the government is considering building both simultaneously using value capture.

Mr Gay's comments came as he said a westbound off-ramp from the M4 at Hill Road would be built by 2019, news that will be welcomed by thousands of residents and workers in the Sydney Olympic Park area.

Residents have long argued the ramp was needed to relieve traffic congestion in the area, including at the DFO/Homebush roundabout, which has been dubbed Sydney's worst.

An east bound on-ramp to the M4 was included in plans for the WestConnex motorway, but residents were told that an west bound off-ramp would be too difficult and expensive.

The new ramp and upgrades to roads will cost about $200 million but rather than being added to the WestConnex bill, the construction will be funded as part of the redevelopment of a run down industrial area around Carter Street in Lidcombe.

The government has rezoned the precinct to allow for the construction of 5500 homes, a new park and school and space for commercial offices and light industry.
Artist impression

Wentworth Point, a nearby residential redevelopment that has seen thousands of apartments built on a peninsula with one one entry and exit road, has been labelled a planning failure.

But Planning Minister Rob Stokes said he was "supremely confident" that the the Carter Street project would be a success.

"This is a really central location. It makes good sense to build around transit oriented development and that's what this is about," Mr Stokes said.

"What we have got is some decaying former industrial land which is not being effectively utilised. We've got be more efficient in our use of space in Sydney, particularly in areas that are well connected to existing and proposed transport projects".

NSW Opposition leader Luke Foley, who is also shadow minister for western Sydney, said the ramp was a "small step" towards giving Sydney Olympic Park the transport connections it needed. The government, he said, also needed to reinstate direct rail services between the city and Olympic Park via Strathfield.

When asked to confirm Mr Gay's comments that light rail would be built to Sydney Olympic Park, Mr Stokes said the government was still considering the four options.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/roads-ministe ... z3sdftmNQh
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook
Well, we knew it wasn't going to Macquarie Park when they decided not to go via Eastwood.
If they're still considering a Macquarie Park route, I wouldn't write the Eastwood option off just yet. As I've mentioned previously, all of the government's publicity material has referred to a route via "Carlingford", but curiously there's never been any mention of Epping, which you'd expect would be a logical destination along such a route. Others have assumed that Epping would be included, but there's been nothing to indicate that it would be. My feeling is that they have deliberately been vague in clearly defining the Macquarie Park route to keep all of their options open. The conversion and duplication of the Carlingford Line is the easy part, but extending the light rail line to Epping along existing 4-lane roads, let alone to Macquarie Park, is fraught with difficulty.

Only yesterday I received a brochure detailing the final plan for the proposed widening of Epping Rd from Epping Bridge (Blaxland Rd) to Essex St on the eastern side of Epping. It is proposed to add an extra lane in the westbound direction and construct a raised centre median. This lane will be for left turn traffic only into Blaxland Rd. There is no plan to widen Epping Bridge. There is also a separate proposal to upgrade the Beecroft Rd/Carlingford Rd intersection, which is basically to provide an additional southbound turn lane from Beecroft Rd into Carlingford Rd. No widening of Carlingford Rd is proposed. At this late stage, if a light rail route through Epping was contemplated, then they would have made provision for it. This suggests to me that a route via Carlingford and Epping or even only as far as Epping is not on the agenda.

What could be a possibility is to construct the route via Eastwood as recommended in Parramatta Council's feasibility study and in addition a branch to Carlingford along the existing rail line. It would still utilise the whole of the Carlingford Line, at least from Camellia. The route via Eastwood is the most direct between Parramatta and Macquarie Park and is along an existing and reserved 6-lane corridor (Kissing Point Rd and Eastwood County Rd reservation). It beggars belief that it appears to have been officially ignored, despite being the preferred route.

Another advantage of the Eastwood route is that it would create incentive for redevelopment of the Eastwood Town Centre, which has so far been neglected by Ryde Council. Eastwood is a much larger retail/commercial centre than Epping with far greater redevelopment potential (a bit like Burwood v Strathfield), which the powers that be don't seem to have yet acknowledged. If they want value capture to help finance the light rail project, then this is where it should happen. Eastwood is screaming out for rejuvenation. At a recent Eastwood Chamber of Commerce meeting, it was reported that the YUHU Group, who purchased the Eastwood Centre a couple of years ago, have become so frustrated in negotiating with an intransigent Ryde Council over their proposed $300 million mixed use redevelopment, that they are now contemplating diverting their funding to other projects on the North Shore. All the more reason why the sooner the State Government takes over responsibility for redevelopment of Eastwood, the better.

simonl
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

^ I have it in writing from Tranpsort for NSW that via Brush Farm i.e. Eastwood is no longer the preferred route.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by Transtopic »

simonl wrote:^ I have it in writing from Tranpsort for NSW that via Brush Farm i.e. Eastwood is no longer the preferred route.
Then I suggest a Macquarie Park link is off the table. I can't see how it could otherwise be achieved. Sheer madness!

If they feel that the crossing of Brush Farm is an impediment, then they should abandon the Eastwood County Rd reservation altogether. It's pointless retaining it when they can see no use for it.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

^ Or change their ridiculous viewpoint.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by Aurora »

Olympic Park would be a white elephant disappointed if they go with that. They've also just lost Comm Bank offices. What will the patronage possibly be on a normal day.

They may as well run route buses if they are desperate.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by Daniel »

Aurora wrote:Olympic Park would be a white elephant disappointed if they go with that. They've also just lost Comm Bank offices. What will the patronage possibly be on a normal day.

They may as well run route buses if they are desperate.
The light rail would primarily service the vast new residential development proposed along the route itself, i.e. Carter Street precinct, Camelia, Rosehill etc.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

I haven't heard of that Daniel. Surely a Parramatta-Olympic Park LR would be a pretty unattractive service heading into the city in peak hour, with the need to double change or head backwards via Parra? While it's fine for those working in Parra, CBD workers would outnumber them significantly more than 2:1.

I think Aurora is onto something with is comment "Might as well just run route buses". Build some new roads, bus only if you like.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by grog »

"Parramatta to Olympic Park" light rail is actually Parramatta to Strathfield, so no double change.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

^ Quite correct. Note that PCC have bagged this route but it's via Epping route will just never happen.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by Transtopic »

What has really intrigued me is Parramatta Council's last minute switch to promote the light rail route to Macquarie Park via Carlingford, and by inference Epping, despite its own feasibility study recommending the route via Eastwood. The Carlingford/Epping route was eliminated in the early stages of the feasibility study for obvious reasons which I have already alluded to. They no longer even acknowledge the existence of their feasibility study and its recommendations and it's disappeared off their website. What has changed for them to adopt a different position? Have they been nobbled by the State Government?

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by rogf24 »

There is a large amount of new housing being developed in Carlingford and Epping so I guess to the government it makes more sense to provide access to these areas rather than a new Eastwood alone. There is also some, but not on a very large scale, urban consolidation along the rest of the Carlingford line. Maybe the Carlingford line has potential more people than the Kissing Point Road corridor. The government's public transport and housing strategy seems to be mostly squeezing all they can out of existing infrastructure rather than investing in brand new lines and a Carlingford line conversion seems to able to suit that ticket better than an Eastwood alignment but I'm not exactly sure.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by Frosty »

Well the thing with the Carlingford Line is something got to be done its simply unviable to have a double deck 4 car shuttle hourly shuttle go back and forth, I bet the costs are massive and probably near zero fare box recovery. I'm surprised the Carlingford Line has lasted till now and hasn't been shut down for good like the Ropes Creek branch.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

^ interesting theory. Could just go to a peak only service, would that be any better? A Doo Tram might be an alternative too, but I guess you'd want to keep the ability to run trains to Rosehill on race days. I don't think there is any freight any more and probably not much chance of it coming back.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by tonyp »

I would imagine conversion of the Carlingford line to light rail would be in conjunction with a Parramatta-Strathfield light rail. Carlingford services would turn east to Parramatta at Camellia.

It would theoretically work to Clyde except for the need to bring heavy rail services to the racecourse for special events. However it would be much more useful for Carlingford services to head to Parramatta. It wouldn't be too hard to do it even now. The alignment of the old Parramatta-Silverwater tramway is still basically there on the ground in the street system. There's even still a street called Tramway Avenue - now why would that be I wonder?
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

tram/train service is possible and happens overseas, but if you actually connect the Carlingford line to Parramatta I would have thought you'd remove the Carlingford-Clyde service and close Clyde which would make it not an issue.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by tonyp »

They still run special trains to Rosehill so you'd need to keep that stub from Clyde open.

Tram-train operation won't happen in Australia because of the regulatory climate.

In any case it's better to connect the Carlingford corridor to a signifcant centre like Parramatta rather than Clyde which is a nowhere and nothing locality.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

You can keep the stub open but close the station.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by Daniel »

tonyp wrote:They still run special trains to Rosehill so you'd need to keep that stub from Clyde open.
There's no point keeping it open just for that. Remove it and augment the shuttle buses on race days. Also remove the Parramatta Road level crossing while you're at it.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

It's still slightly useful and the LX is only a problem when it closes. Why lift it?

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by simonl »

Might have an answer to the conundrum here:
In October, Liberal MP for Parramatta Geoff Lee said his favoured option was a line passing through Carlingford to Macquarie Park.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by boronia »

Aurora wrote:Olympic Park would be a white elephant disappointed if they go with that. They've also just lost Comm Bank offices. What will the patronage possibly be on a normal day.

They may as well run route buses if they are desperate.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by tonyp »

Daniel wrote: remove the Parramatta Road level crossing while you're at it.
Am I the Minister for Transport now? :shock:

It'd be interesting to see some figures. At a recent pop culture event there that some of my kids attended, they were running special trains from Central iirc about every 20 minutes. That's an awful lot of capacity and would be an even more awful lot of buses struggling out along Parramatta Rd to provide the same capacity.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by boronia »

tonyp wrote:I would imagine conversion of the Carlingford line to light rail would be in conjunction with a Parramatta-Strathfield light rail. Carlingford services would turn east to Parramatta at Camellia.

It would theoretically work to Clyde except for the need to bring heavy rail services to the racecourse for special events. However it would be much more useful for Carlingford services to head to Parramatta. It wouldn't be too hard to do it even now. The alignment of the old Parramatta-Silverwater tramway is still basically there on the ground in the street system. There's even still a street called Tramway Avenue - now why would that be I wonder?
Is there really a need for heavy rail to the racecourse?

Randwick copes OK without one. Customers would soon get used to catching a train to Parra, and connecting with a tram service the rest of the way.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Post by Daniel »

I guess I'm thinking more longer term. How much longer will the Racecourse and associated facilities be around for until they too form a redevelopment site?

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