SA Rail Consortium: Update

[Heardy_101]

Send me your email details, I'll get you in contact with the guy

[The Phonj]

Heardy_101: One thing that you hadn't mentioned (prior to my last reading of this thread) was the types of (freight) traffic you were looking at carrying. Now that you mention that positive conversations have been made with Viterra and GWA regarding grain traffic from silos on the now neglected BG lines, I realise that this may be just a little more than somebody's dream. Earlier posts brought up the 'resurrection' of the former SAR network which to my mind brought images of inefficient working, four wheel wagons and Small Parcels traffic; which in this day and age is no way to run a profitable railway.

You have mentioned starting in the Mid-North region, the lines of which are to my eyes reasonably close together (thus to an extent competing with each other); but I wonder if there would be a possibility of also getting into the South-East; Paper, wood and other bulk products from the region could produce some decent incomes; from memory $10m has been set aside to anybody standardising the line from Wolseley and if enough freight traffic went on rail it would negate the requirement of the Government to build a rather controversial road in the area. This would be seen as a win-win by the government and the community who might just get behind such a project. Mt. Gambier may just be able to justify a regular passenger rail service also considering the other towns on the route (and Keswick may be available for use at the right price). I haven't done any investigation on this; I'm just throwing ideas at you.

I still remain skeptical however continue to wish you luck in this project and promise now that I will buy a ticket for the first intrastate passenger service run by your consortium.

[Heardy_101]

Thanks Phonj

To be honest, the SE hasn't been discussed, and just for a bit of bad news neither has the Barossa (much). The latter I might start talking about again, Penrice is broke and I think the last Stonie has run- so it's a matter of time when GWA and the Govt decided to pull the tracks. Don't quote me on this but I have heard this from more than one person now during lengthy phone calls. But I will certainly mention the SE to my friend who will no doubt be interested.

You are right, compared to most other areas the Mid North lines are relatively close and most of them were interconnected or met at Break of Gauge towns. As I said, initially the first SG tracks will be from Bowmans to Balaklava. Intially the rest of the BG network will remain so but eventually will be converted.

As for that ticket, I could do a deal where anyone on here gets a discount

[Busman]

It hasn't taken much effort using the information you've supplied (and assuming you really aren't caught in a Walter Mitty fantasy) to work out the company involved is Freightlink, a British company that's taken over part of Poland's network.

In 2008, it announced an expansion of its interests using it's latest subsidiary, Freightlink Australia. Since then it's begun hauling cotton in NSW and in 2009 signed a deal here with mining giant Xtrata.

Confirm or deny please.

[Heardy_101]

I'm going to have to deny this- until further notice at least. To be honest I do not know who the investors are involved with, and if I did it would most likely be confidential anyway. The gentleman to whom I am with frequent contact with has not mentioned company names (yet). So until he does I can only assume he is with a "private" group of investors (don't quote me here).

[UQB709]

Let's be honest, this is all starting to get rather silly.

Deflection of questions.
Dogged determination that transport must be rail at all costs.
A refusal to accept not only online opinion from those with experience and knowledge, but also the simple fact that this hasnt yet stacked up for government or anyone else for years.
Investors with deep pockets who must remain unidentified, yet seemingly are happy with all this speculation being splashed around.
A lot of "of course are details, business plans, studies, feasibility studies etc, it's just that's haven't seen them and neither can you.
I assume.... But don"t quote me....
I've spoken with these people on the phone, (but presumably never met them)..

... Etc etc

If you can't get trust online here, you aren't going to get it from government!

It seems that this started with good intentions, but it has gotten far out of hand, and that's giving Heardy_101 the benefit of a huge chunk of doubt.

I'm going to call it; this sounds so unbelievable that a reasonable person would give it no credibility whatsoever.

If its real, then it's hardly the way to go about either business or influencing government policy. If its not, then someone is being taken for a ride.

[LowRider]

I can't normally be arsed commenting on these type of threads, but I'm sick of reading all this righteousness. So, let me just get a few points clear:
1. NO one on here has invested any time and or money aside from Heardy_101 on this project correct? Excellent. Well, stop carrying on like headless chooks like you are a poor sad investor. You haven't contributed to it, don't seem interested and think its a pipe dream so what do any of you care?!?!

2. Heardy_101 - You seem surprised at the amount of conjecture you have received from people, this shouldn't be a shock. You are delivering tid bits of information to a group of enthusiasts that think they can run every cities transport system better than it is. Its going to happen, however, you only have yourself to blame as you are just chucking out there random bits of information from no source. Now here in lies the issue, with the benefit of heinsight would you do it again? Doubtful. Its best to just be quiet on things until you can actually say something, particularly if its meant to be secret, or if you don't know the whole story so you don't appear foolish.

3. So with the above in mind, again, who cares?!?! If nothing happens, then who cares, if something happens then who cares? No one here is intrinsically linked to it, it isn't going to directly affect anyone here, so again, who cares? Get over yourselves and stop being so damn high and mighty.

Anyway, back to said ideas, I personally think that the three areas that would be worthy based on population alone are the Gawler Central-Angaston line, the Wolesley-Mount Gambier line and the Adelaide-Whyalla line. Any one can see based on population that any other line is a wasted effort because there will not and cannot be the demand. Look at interstate networks, and see the sized cities/towns they go to. But hey, thats just my idea, I'm no expert (like 99.9% of people on this board) and what would I know?

[Heardy_101]

First of all UQB709. I am not deliberately trying to deflect questions. For the record why the hell wouldn't I accept peoples opinions? Of course I bloody do. Seriously, I wouldn't bother going on here or Failpage for that matter if I didn't accept opinions. Maybe you should start accepting my word from time to time.

There are some questions which I can answer (because X Topic has been discussed thoroughly) and some I cannot (because X Topic has been discussed very little or NOT at all). Accept that. "Please".

What is wrong with someone like me creating "hype" or "speculation"? Nothing. What is wrong with someone sitting back behind the scenes quietly plotting the "Return of the SAR" (or whatever we will call ourselves), a la the "Silent Achiever"?? Nothing. You obviously take issue to this, so be it, like LowRider said who cares anyway. If it all goes ahead I have proven you all wrong and odds are I will make note of it (in the most modest way I can think of). If it doesn't then I'll admit to being the biggest fool on here and you can all happily make a note of that in a not so modest way that suits you.

For the record, I have not invested money in this due to personal reasons- although if you really must know this involves paying off my mortgage.

Also what is wrong with creating debate and discussion? These sites are full of it.

If you think I have an attitude problem, the call you just made proves to me what your attitude is on the subject and I doubt is has much to do with what I have been saying.

[Heardy_101]

To simplify it down a bit more for everyone. This is regarding the investor and what I am getting involved in.

1. When I first posted about my "Consortium" idea on both here and Railpage, I was contacted by Mr. X about it all. He told me that it is a project that he had been working on for quite some time (getting the SA Mid North lines going again). I have also come into contact with other individuals of both help and interest. Now, until he either puts a post up on here or Railpage about himself and the topic (which he has said he will when the time is right), he WILL REMAIN ANONYMOUS. You should all respect that. After all, isn't that the whole point of having usernames, avatars, etc? You are all hiding under a banner of anonymity. Some of you choose, for example, like witsend, The Mayor/Stephen Lucas and myself have chosen to reveal real names because we have chosen not to hide behind an alias. It appears that some of us think that our keyboards are weapons.

2. Any questions regarding and including, not not restricted to, Profit/Loss statements, money invested, etc, will be deflected. Why? It is none of your business. It is not my business, either. Maybe the people involved are millionaires, maybe they're not. How much they may/may not spend and how much return they may/may not get isn't my or your business either. Until the day he comes out and explains all the details in full, any questions regarding our favourite little word "money", will not be answered. Nor do they have to.

3. If you are what I would describe as "stubbornly doubtful" e.g. don't want to know about anything, kindly leave the topic and don't return. If you said you weren't going to bother then the question posed to you is why did you in the first place. People who are "genuinely skeptical" due to my unintentional patchiness are always welcome., because I understand why. To the people who are behind me because they either know a little more or understand a little more than others are of course very welcome and I thank you.

To simplify it further:

1. Financial information isn't and will not be available until either a) I recieve permission to discuss them, or b) Mr. X puts a post up regarding the issue. So I will not apologize for deflecting questions regarding this.

2. Full details of which lines will operate first I do not know either. I am merely using examples. However one that is confirmed is the 5-6 km Standard Gauge link from Bowmans - Balaklava. Another line which I think is set in stone is the BG line to Burra and possibly Kapunda. However don't quote me as those could change. Another thing which I know is that all BG lines will be gauge convertible.

[Eagle Eye]

Another line which I think is set in stone is the BG line to Burra and possibly Kapunda. However don't quote me as those could change.

Does. Not. Make. Sense. How can it be set in stone (i.e. 100% guaranteed) yet you're not prepared to back this up and it could still yet change? That statement alone and others like it before damage a whole lot of your credibility just in that one sentence alone, think about what is posted before you post it.

What is wrong with someone like me creating "hype" or "speculation"? Nothing.

Incorrect. That is an extremely wrong thing to do. It's like promoting a massive concert (i.e. Big Day Out) 6 months out then getting to within 6 weeks and realising you haven't signed any bands and don't look like it either. There must be proof in the pudding otherwise the pudding is hollow and will quickly collapse. Anyone that works for any company that leaks this sort of hype or speculation that you have would normally be disciplined at first, and after a repeat case sacked. This sort of thing normally needs to be released through normal company channels, not leaked by a staffer who is not at the top of the tree. This seems to be backfiring on you a lot right now.

My advice to you is to drop these posts on here for now, lay low for a while and get some real work done on this. When you have some dollar figures, interested company names who are willing to be named, definite timeframes, info on confirmed rolling stock, etc, then you or somebody else involved can start to tease us and make this sound like the best thing since sliced bread (and in today's PT world in SA, it wouldn't be that hard!). You are currently doing yourself an injustice with these 'empty promises' or speculation that shouldn't be made on a public forum. Sure, chat to your friends in person/email/PM/phone to get advice if you wish, but this has gotten out of hand on here and there shouldn't be any further posts unless something official is posted like I said a few lines above.

And should this fail, don't apply for a job as a PI or police officer, you would give away far too many secrets and would jeopardise investigations, and possibly someone's life.

[Heardy_101]

It only go out of hand because the topic has now gone way off what MY (not everyone else's) original question was.

If there is anyone GENUINELY INTERESTED in getting involved, contact me by either PM or email.
Had anyone on here actually had done that then I would have forwarded you more info as well as gotten you in contact with the people regarding it all- and you would have been pleasantly surprised. You can all still do that if you wish.

[alias]

If the plan is to still operate passenger services, it doesn't say a lot for your business plan when you haven't addressed regulatory aspects, like:

In accordance with the Passenger Transport Act 1994, to operate a Regular Passenger Service you must hold a contract to do so with the Minister for Transport.

Considering Premiers, YP Coaches, LinkSA and others already hold contracts, it's unlikely that DPTI would allow a competing rail service that could take revenue from already established contracts (that provide exclusivity to the contracted operators). Doing so would render DPTI liable to pay compensation to existing contract holders, as a competing rail service would breach that exclusivity that Premiers et al already hold.

[The Phonj]

The Indian Pacific can take passengers from Broken Hill, Port Pirie and Port Augusta to Adelaide and vice versa. Yet this competes with road coaches also operating to these locations...

In any case; could a potential new player offer an interstate service, thus meeting provisions in the Australian constitution regarding free trade?? I'm looking here at the Murrayville example as a case in point.

[Rclasstramcar]

As Alias noted, regulations must be studied before. It's better to prepare for the safety inspectors. I'm interested in your venture, Hardy_101, & wish you good luck.

Cheers,
Ben

[Busman]

I can't help myself here, and I should know better...but here it goes...

**SA PRESS RELEASE IN THREE WEEKS**

That's all I am going to say.

Looking forward to next Saturday!!

[Heardy_101]

Could even be before that...oh err, wait, did I say that? lol

[LowRider]

Could even be before that...oh err, wait, did I say that? lol

See, stuff like that is why people have been giving you stick over this whole proposal! I haven't given you any XXX over it because its interesting what you are trying to achieve, however, flippant childish comments like this don't help your cause at all mate. If you don't have a hard date to give people on something, don't say it. Obviously you know, what gets annoying is being purposely vague about it. Just don't do it, only say XXX when XXX happens.

[runawaybus]

See, stuff like that is why people have been giving you stick over this whole proposal! I haven't given you any XXX over it because its interesting what you are trying to achieve, however, flippant childish comments like this don't help your cause at all mate. If you don't have a hard date to give people on something, don't say it. Obviously you know, what gets annoying is being purposely vague about it. Just don't do it, only say XXX when XXX happens.

You are so right there because it is like on a site I am on a person said there would be a reunion for our old high school even said the date and then suddenly cancelled with only two weeks notice and some old students spent over $5,000 for flight from overseas to be here. The reunion advertisement categorically had there would be finger food but one thing was for certain that what annoyed everyone is they knew the date had to be wrong- the Sunday of the Long weekend here and they I think thought people would be excited to go to the reunion rather than looking at the date.

This is similar to Heardy's proposal he probably knows exact start up years or dates but he has now readily admitted he should not have said them in the first place- that is what governments do all the time and don't realise the ramifications.

Let me give you some good advice read the reports I posted on here for you as well as on that other site. Do some primary and secondary research and the primary research I mean get a survey form designed and talk to the locals in the communities you want to run passenger rail services but you have to realise one thing look at the timings of the Coach services there- have you noticed anything unusual about them- I will let you discover what the problem is and I will let you read between the lines of the timetables- I think most people on here know what I am talking about.

Also, getting trains back to various places which have no population or one farm house between stations is something you will have to think long and hard about- secondly the government is not a bottomless pit and you can't expect them to subsidise your loss each time they want to see hard fact that you have infact tried to get people to use your service.

And lastly, please if you are so keen to have your proposal go off the ground why is it so secret? And I think the ATDB Members deserve to have a PDF copy of your proposal as well as the research results about why you want the rail services to come back- no you can't say because you would like it to come back because you like trains and trains are a better mode than buses. You need to lots and lots of research. And yes Research is not Heresay that is just rumour or even the lazyman's way out of doing proper research.

Sorry for being negative but I am giving you constructive criticism and yes best of luck with this project which will take at least another 5 to 10 years to complete.

[Heardy_101]

Parts of the research and plans are in fact confidential....in fact they are that confidential that I and a few selection of others received edited copies because some information is extremely "sensitive" (so to speak). However, I will ask my friend if I can tell you some of the exact details, which do go beyond rebuilding the BG lines from (Gawler - Kapunda/Balaklava/Burra, as well as SG link from Bowmans to Balaklava).

[Rclasstramcar]

And lastly, I think the ATDB Members deserve to have a PDF copy of your proposal as well as the research results about why you want the rail services to come back

Amen. I'm cautiously backing the idea, but want to see more evidence (data like studies, polling etc) before I'm involved in anyway. That'll change if data's provided. Heardy_101, have you met the person funding your plans?

Cheers,
Ben

[Heardy_101]

Copied from a message I received just then from the investor (s):

"the investors realise that passenger service alone is not a viable option but have preliminary contrats in place to provide inward freight movement to an agribusiness which is planing to open two depots in the region which will require rail access. So accessing the standard gauge network at Bowmans and relaying part of the old Brinkworth corridor and regauging the exsisting network makes this project viable".

[runawaybus]

All I can say about this proposal once I see or hear or even somehow find out who the investors are and they provide a media release that this will happen or is going to happen i won't believe it.

Like they say it until I ride on the train (passenger) and see the freight being moved from origin to destination and vice versa I wont believe it- sorry!

[LowRider]

runawaybus - Typically a scam means that it is there to rip people off. There is no one here that has any vested interest in it (monetary or otherwise), so I cant really understand how Consumer Affairs have any caring at all about this. No one has invested money into it, and I don't believe people are investing money (well if they are they'd be stupid with out further information).

So again, how is it a scam is no one is being ripped off? Have you put any money into it runawaybus? I'd hazard a guess no, no you haven't. If such is the case, then what is your gripe/problem/etc?

Consumer Affairs can't do anything unless he starts asking for cash or what not from people, and they actually give it to him. A bunch of enthusiasts that are getting irritated because they want to know the ducks arse of it all doesn't really count.

[Heardy_101]

So, consumer affairs are watching me are they? Well, let them come and find me. They won't find much here in Redhill (or is that RedHELL? lol). I work at a roadhouse, babysit 7 cats while I'm at home (could almost be a farm myself), drive to Adelaide once a week to see my Girlfriend....oh and I also rip people off. That's nothing new to me. Local gossip tells me about once a week that I'm a Pedo because of my girlfriends age (she is 18 compared to me being 21). Runawaybus/train, having posted that, to me you seem just like those old grannies who have nothing better to do with their time but start crap like that. I am not a scammer. For starters, have I asked anyone on here, anyone, just one person, for financial contribution? No. Will I ever? No.

As for the consumer affairs people watching my posts, I have a message for them. If you really suspect that I am a scammer, come find me and see what you come up with!! I've already given away where I am and where I work and what I do, shouldn't be that hard. The local police know who I am and where I am, give them a bell, they'd be happy to come to the Roadhouse and have a nice hot Coffee and some of the best food on Highway 1. And I will happily give them all the information they need and want.

I will not be intimidated by anyone one here, for the record, anyone working for or associated with the Government, either.

[The Phonj]

Come to the Roadhouse and have a nice hot Coffee and some of the best food on Highway 1.

I'll put that claim to the test next time I venture North! (except the coffee bit. Can't stand the stuff!)