Bus Observations 2024.

[Linto63]

The StationLink buses were and remain TfNSW assets. After the Chatswood - Epping shutdown concluded they were cascaded to CDC and Transdev's TfNSW route operations to replace older vehicles.

The new buses may be Transit Systems assets, but it is unlikely that they will have shelled out somewhere north of $30 million on buses just for one contract. There will be a plan post the shutdown, either they will then move to region 3 to replace Transit Systems owned buses with the contract value amended to reflect the increased costs, go to one of Transit Systems other operations, or be returned to the lessor in which case TfNSW will be getting its pants pulled down.

With the contract only awarded in February for a July start, delivery time would have been a major factor. Scania and Volvo may be holding a few chassis in Australia but not that number, so even if the chassis were built and ready to go in Europe, it would take three months to get them here and then they would need to be bodied. By comparison the Chinese manufacturers are punching these out by the dozen every day, so the lead time will be much shorter.

[Swift]

They'll be sorry. While they use German and American componentry from the usual makers, they supply their own ancillaries like water pumps etc which are not as good.
It will be absolute false economy.

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

I'd assume that Station Link was funded by TfNSW, however, that begs the question of why TfNSW (and the taxpayers of NSW) paid for Station Link but not for the Bankstown contract, considering both the ECRL shutdown and the T3 partial shutdown were for conversion to Metro standard.

If the lack of electric charging infrastructure was a barrier to the contract being government funded for fear of breaking an election promise, surely hybrids would have been a suitable replacement. (Technically, hybrids are still electric vehicles... hence no broken promises!)

[tonyp]

I'd assume that Station Link was funded by TfNSW, however, that begs the question of why TfNSW (and the taxpayers of NSW) paid for Station Link but not for the Bankstown contract, considering both the ECRL shutdown and the T3 partial shutdown were for conversion to Metro standard.

If the lack of electric charging infrastructure was a barrier to the contract being government funded for fear of breaking an election promise, surely hybrids would have been a suitable replacement. (Technically, hybrids are still electric vehicles... hence no broken promises!)

They don't think that way. Hybrids have diesel engines. The government doesn't want to be seen buying a single non-electric metropolitan bus, especially after the Coalition went all-electric. They don't even have the Queensland option. TS must have got something extra in the contract to buy the buses and they would want the cheapest possible buses.

[Linto63]

Hybrids are barely more environmentally friendly than diesels, given the amount of time they spend running on the latter. The last government came up with an ill thought out policy and the current one has continued with it. While all diesel buses pollute, current spec Euro VI buses are far less polluting than the Euro I spec buses that have had to be retained far longer than would usually be the case.

I suspect the narrative being that Transit Systems has purchased the buses and that TfNSW has no involvement to be spin. Transit Systems would be unlikely to have a need for a charter fleet that size, and unless the leases are virtually paid off in the first year, would never win any work against operators with fully paid or cheaply bought buses. Most likely that at some point down the track the leases will quietly be transferred to TfNSW and it hopes nobody notices.

Having Transit Systems as the lessee will add to the cost as it will have and lesser credit rating than the government's AA and will be leasing at a higher rate. As to why Transit Systems opted for Chinese buses as opposed to buses from traditional sources, we cannot be sure, but factors other than price may have been involved.

[Merc1107]

Who is to say the buses are being leased rather than purchased outright?

Transit Systems parent, Kelsian, own a number of charter operations across the country, and it isn't unreasonable to think these buses could subsequently be passed onto one of the many subsidiaries, some of which make regular use of vehicles approaching nearly 40 years of age, not to mention having sizeable numbers of Chinese buses in their fleets already.

[Swift]

That will avoid the back door diesels and replace more polluting ancient buses.
It shows that 40 year old buses today don't seem as old as 40 year old buses would 40 years ago.

[Linto63]

Buses are always leased, purchasing outright is an inefficient use of capital. The $30 million plus that would be needed to purchase these 60 buses outright is about what Kelsian pays out in dividends each year.

If Transit Systems is currently operating charters with 40 year old buses that would be fully paid for and fully depreciated, replacing them with near new buses that have large lease liabilities will push its costs through the roof and it will be undercut.

[Merc1107]

Buses are always leased, purchasing outright is an efficient use of capital. The $30 million plus that would be needed to purchase these 60 buses outright is about what Kelsian pays out in dividends each year.

First I've heard of leasing - the language I've seen used in press releases tends to explicitly imply ownership of the asset rather than a lessor being involved. For a large number of buses for uncertain, short-term work it makes sense, but I suspect Kelsian / Transit Systems would have longer term plans than that.

If Transit Systems is currently operating charters with 40 year old buses that would be fully paid for and fully depreciated, replacing them with near new buses that have large lease liabilities will push its costs through the roof and it will be undercut.

Yet the larger charter operators (and even the smaller outfits) often pick new or new-near vehicles to replace those fully-depreciated dinosaurs...

[Linto63]

All NSW government buses have been leased since the 1970s. Vehicles in the private sector are leased, or on hire purchase finance, because all payments are tax deductable where as purchased assets need to be capitalised and depreciated, in the case of buses over 15 years.

[Noel]

It is rather strange to think they need that many buses past the Bankstown line occupation even when they own charter operators around the country.

A fleet of 43-44 seat, two door buses aren’t ideal for large scale charter work as they’re too low capacity. Unless they somehow plan to add an extra 10 seats to them at a later date, it’s hard to see what they would do with them all.

[tonyp]

It is rather strange to think they need that many buses past the Bankstown line occupation even when they own charter operators around the country.

A fleet of 43-44 seat, two door buses aren’t ideal for large scale charter work as they’re too low capacity. Unless they somehow plan to add an extra 10 seats to them at a later date, it’s hard to see what they would do with them all.

TS may not intend to use them after the rail job. They, or the lessor, can put them on the market. Plenty of route operators around Australia probably happy to take cheap near-new diesel commuter buses through some loophole to bypass the electric mandates - like outer metro and country operators where the mandate isn't in force until a later date.

[Linto63]

In which case it would be more sensible for TfNSW to lease and then reallocate rather than the smoke and mirrors of having Transit Systems as the leasee.

[Noel]

If some of the other talk going around is true - namely that they have to recruit 130 fresh drivers and are not permitted to use any of the existing contract region drivers on the services - these buses are going to be lucky to even get worn in if the driver shortage keeps going like it is.

[boronia]

How many buses are there in R9 numbered 2108? I had 4 random rides on 396s today, and on 3 of them "2108" appeared. I feel jinxed LOL.

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

There is 1, and it is 2108 ST, a tri-axle Scania K310UB Volgren CR228L. Perhaps you just got extremely lucky - from experience trying to find 2108, it's only often out on one or two shifts a day.
To be fair, I've struggled to get around the numbering system STA used for its vehicles - I originally thought that 2108 was a Mercedes O500LE CNG model.

[Swift]

How many buses are there in R9 numbered 2108? I had 4 random rides on 396s today, and on 3 of them "2108" appeared. I feel jinxed LOL.

Probably out all day on that run.

[Glen]

How many buses are there in R9 numbered 2108? I had 4 random rides on 396s today, and on 3 of them "2108" appeared. I feel jinxed LOL.

I think it is just following you around.

[stajourneyman]

For a number of years Port Botany used this vehicle on their all nighter shift.

[Stonesourscotty]

Busways 1094 on the 770 baring in mind Mulgrave don't operate the 770 I guess it's a transfer to Penrith.

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[Stonesourscotty]

Edit

Still Carries Mulgrave Legals currently on 791

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[Campbelltown busboy]

Edit

Still Carries Mulgrave Legals currently on 791

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Why does that confuse you. Wrong "legals" on buses were common in regions 10 and 13 in the Veolia days to the stage where you would need to use the in fleet lists search bar to find out when the last depot movement was

[Bovways]

Busways 1094 on the 770 baring in mind Mulgrave don't operate the 770 I guess it's a transfer to Penrith.

I can confirm it is on Penrith shifts both morning and afternoon today, and is operating out of Penrith depot. So either it still hasn't found its way back home, or it has been transferred.

[hugh45]

Were there enough drivers today covering normal route services school bus services and services to the Royal Easter Show.

[BAMBAM]

Were there enough drivers today covering normal route services school bus services and services to the Royal Easter Show.

There probably wasn’t hence we saw Kinetic, Icharter and other Charter bus companies help filling in gaps. I’m surprised you only mentioned today when Easter show started on the 22nd of March and since then there was 5 days of school. This was a very early Easter Show because they would normally happen at the beginning of school holidays but today was last day of school holidays with school holidays haven’t started yet.