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STA Observations 2019

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Swift » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:30 pm

Geo101 wrote:I’ve lived in Perth, Darwin, Melbourne and Sydney.

One thing that has struck me, is that in Sydney at Railway square, they don’t have a fancy multi-million dollar bus interchange.

When I first started negotiating the buses there I wondered if there was some plan in place to upgrade it.

But it just seems to work, in fact if they tried to implement something like the Busport setup in Perth, or Palmerston/Casuarina at Railway square, it would likely be a disaster.

I have no doubt a good designed interchange is indisputable, but is it possibly the case that simple is best.,

You bring up good points. It seems when they upgrade a bus interchange, it is only on the proviso of benefitting a private developer as in Bondi Jcn and it ends up an inferior over complicated result as it the case at BJI. The previous one that was built with the ESR in 1979, was exposed to the elements like the ridiculously underutilised Edgecliff facility, but was simple and straightforward to find and access the desired bus stop. The enclosed one now with the over cautious class doors is a long and cramped space that is tricky to access from the street and hard to find your bus from if you don't use it every day and often results in disorderly congregation at the doors where the buses pick up. As usual in Sydney, minimal thought is put into the amenity of interchanges.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby tonyp » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:44 pm

Perth at least has its excellent airport-style departure display so that you can locate your gate quickly and easily. Generally underground bus terminals are pretty horrible unless you like being gassed by diesel fumes. They may come into their own one day when fleets are all-electric. Meanwhile I prefer to stay on the surface.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby neilrex » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:36 pm

Raiway Square bustops were re-designed quite recently, it seems to be.

Those partly useless high brown glass roofs are less than 25 years old.

Reasonable access to Devonshire street pedestrian tunnel, access to the old front part of central station requires either great patience or jaywalking.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby boronia » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:31 am

The only "re-design" seems to be replacement of the bus stop signs and information signage into the standard TfNSW/Hop format. Stands have been relettered into the Central precinct grouping, which covers George St, Lee St, Eddy Ave, Chalmers St, Elizabeth St and Foveaux St.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Swift » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:29 pm

^ limiting changes to politically motivated "look at me" signage is a blessing in this case. Leave well enough alone!
If only the govern-meddlers would adopt that mantra everywhere else. :|
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby pgt » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:29 am

Swift wrote:The enclosed one now with the over cautious class doors is a long and cramped space that is tricky to access from the street and hard to find your bus from if you don't use it every day and often results in disorderly congregation at the doors where the buses pick up. As usual in Sydney, minimal thought is put into the amenity of interchanges.
Having had to go through Bondi Junction yesterday, this still hasn't changed it seems.
Not only are there ridiculously long queues for the Bondi Road buses (333 mainly, but the same queue for the 380?), but the signage needs correcting, since I went to go find the stand for route 200 - the one nearest the station escalators indicates stand H, but you then realise when you get there it's actually stand J.

Mind you, the route arrows for route 389 through the North Bondi section of the former route (now 379) are still there, so there's a long way to go to fix up signage around there it seems.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby tonyp » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:12 am

I haven't been to BJI for a long time. Are there two glass doors per bus or only one? Do the building pillars interfere with the loading arrangements? Is there conflict between those exiting the bus and entering it?
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Frosty » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:37 am

tonyp wrote:I haven't been to BJI for a long time. Are there two glass doors per bus or only one? Do the building pillars interfere with the loading arrangements? Is there conflict between those exiting the bus and entering it?


Pretty sure it's one glass door per standard bus. There isn't any conflict between exiting and entering customers as there seperate set down only bays on the entry of BJI.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby J_Busworth » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:41 pm

I see the local Liberal MP in Coogee has caved in and announced that they will be reinstating a direct bus from Bronte to the City today. This has been one of the big issues Labor has been campaigning on so it will be interesting see how they react. They also announced an offpeak increase in 339 services from Clovelly to the City from every half hour to every 15 minutes and new X73 and X74 Coogee to City services during shoulder and off peak times. No start date but I wonder if the 339, X73 and X74 service changes have anything to do with cutting of other services along the Alison Road corridor to the city for the light rail?
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Frosty » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:05 pm

^The only reason its being done is because Coogee is a marginal electorate. Maybe the M40 could be extended to Bronte. Labor has also been campaigning in the adjcent electorate of Heffron to have the 310 reinstated and the 301, 302, 303 & 309 return to its old route but weirdly has a NIMBY noise complaint about route 304 as it runs 24 hours a day. I doubt any of the Zetland and Botany routes will change because Heffron is a safe Labor electorate.

STA Port Botany depot is doing the Premiers Concert shuttles from Central to ICC weirdly only using the new Volgren Optimus buses must be a special directive.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby swtt » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:05 pm

J_Busworth wrote:I see the local Liberal MP in Coogee has caved in and announced that they will be reinstating a direct bus from Bronte to the City today. This has been one of the big issues Labor has been campaigning on so it will be interesting see how they react. They also announced an offpeak increase in 339 services from Clovelly to the City from every half hour to every 15 minutes and new X73 and X74 Coogee to City services during shoulder and off peak times. No start date but I wonder if the 339, X73 and X74 service changes have anything to do with cutting of other services along the Alison Road corridor to the city for the light rail?


Wow the 339 used to run every 20 min off peak from memory. When was it cut to 30? :(

All day X73/X74 is interesting. Sounds like 373/374 would just simply be running express from Randwick Jn - which the light rail sort of bypasses.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby citaro393 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:22 pm

Will the Bronte to City service be different to the old 378? With the frequent 333 services along Oxford St between Bondi Jn and the City as well as M40 servicing stops not served by the 333 it seems pointless for the 378 to be reinstated as it was. Extending the 339 from Clovelly to Bronte via the 360 route or direct via Keith & St Thomas Sts is an idea, especially with the increased off-peak frequency on the 339. Also any idea on when there will be an official announcement?
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby burrumbus » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:32 pm

This all reinforces my view that the politicians should stay out of bus transport.It just gets so warped and twisted that it ends up miles away from what the passengers actually need-as opposed to want.The eastern suburbs service provision on paper is very,very good.The problem,as some of us has observed ,is how STA deliver the services, which leaves much to be desired.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby boronia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:00 pm

A lot of eastern routes have been terminating at BJI with passengers interchanging to other services, for 40 years without problems. What makes the residents of Bronte so special they can't cope with it?
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby ay7744 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:34 pm

The State Pittwater MP has announced that Transport for NSW is preparing for the introduction of a new bus service from Mona Vale to Northern Beaches Hospital that will use Wakehurst Parkway as a public transport route for the first time. The hourly service will operate 7 days a week from Mona Vale to Narrabeen before continuing via Wakehurst Parkway to Northern Beaches Hospital at Frenchs Forest. The introduction of the new Wakehurst Parkway bus service will come into effect in the new financial year.

"There may also be opportunities in the future to create new bus stops along Wakehurst Parkway – including near Oxford Falls Grammar School. The new route will also open up a range of transport opportunities for Pittwater residents – including improved access to Chatswood. From Northern Beaches Hospital passengers can transfer to the high-frequency 136 bus service which operates between Chatswood every 15 minutes."

https://www.robstokes.com.au/media/medi ... rn-beaches
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Frosty » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:37 pm

swtt wrote:All day X73/X74 is interesting. Sounds like 373/374 would just simply be running express from Randwick Jn - which the light rail sort of bypasses.


X73 & X74 run via ED inbound and have the first set down at Chifley Tower off-peak customers are more likely wanting destinations south such as Oxford St, Museum & St James. I don't see the benefit also there wouldn't be much time advantage. More 374 services would be more beneficial instead of an off-peak X74 currently only a 30 min off-peak frequency.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Cazza » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:39 pm

Admin: No need to start another thread with this subject - already amply covered in viewtopic.php?f=71&t=86561
New STA Network: https://bit.ly/2F386Ui
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Swift » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:28 pm

boronia wrote:A lot of eastern routes have been terminating at BJI with passengers interchanging to other services, for 40 years without problems. What makes the residents of Bronte so special they can't cope with it?
They are special their own minds, entitled snobs in everyone else's.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby swtt » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:31 pm

Frosty wrote:
swtt wrote:All day X73/X74 is interesting. Sounds like 373/374 would just simply be running express from Randwick Jn - which the light rail sort of bypasses.


X73 & X74 run via ED inbound and have the first set down at Chifley Tower off-peak customers are more likely wanting destinations south such as Oxford St, Museum & St James. I don't see the benefit also there wouldn't be much time advantage. More 374 services would be more beneficial instead of an off-peak X74 currently only a 30 min off-peak frequency.


In fact there was a plan almost 17 years ago now (2002 Better Buses Eastern Suburbs), where in its original form had 392/4/6/9 and 373/7 services all day run as an express pattern as described above.

It got sunk in no time.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby boronia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:56 pm

BBE had some services missing Taylor Square, so all the "elderly" people wouldn't be able to get to St Vinnies.

But BBE wanted to run the 339 via Taylors Square instead of Foveaux St, and all those locals definitely didn't want that. [THey must have been very healthy there?]
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby robert » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:45 pm

ay7744 wrote:The State Pittwater MP has announced that Transport for NSW is preparing for the introduction of a new bus service from Mona Vale to Northern Beaches Hospital that will use Wakehurst Parkway as a public transport route for the first time.

Interestingly, Wakehurst Parkway between Narrabeen and Frenchs Forest was used as a bus route between 30 March 1952 and 5 October 1952 during the period of the Manly Co-ordination Scheme. During that period, peak hour and some Saturday buses between Wynyard and Palm Beach, Church Point and Taylors Point used the entire length of Wakehurst Pkwy. At other times, buses to and from those destinations ran between Seaforth and Dee Why via Wakehurst Pkwy and Roseville [now Warringah] Rd. It would have been quite a sight to see double deckers running through the bush along Wakehurst Pkwy.
For information about private & Government bus routes in Sydney, look at http://www.sydneybusroutes.com
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:17 pm

Lol, I'm waiting for the NIMBY's to come out and refuse to use the new bus service over Wakehurst Parkway because Kelly the ghost will come out and haunt the road late at night time. No but seriously, this road isn't any normal road. It's presided over countless fatal car accidents and is narrow as / almost completely pitch black when the sun sets.

As for Bronte, yeah well, Constance. You knew people didn't want a truncated bus but reared your bullhorns anyway and went ahead with it. It should not take a State Election that is looking tighter than ever to get you to listen to the people and reverse your position.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Qantas94Heavy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:33 pm

Interesting enough, the 'press release' on Facebook doesn't say X73/X74 is getting all day service:

DIRECT BUS SERVICE BETWEEN BRONTE AND THE CBD

A direct bus service between Bronte and the city will be introduced in changes to the Eastern Suburbs network under a NSW Liberals & Nationals Government.

Transport and Infrastructure Minister Andrew Constance revealed bus customers around Coogee will benefit from better transport options to and from the CBD.

“Our Government will provide a direct bus service between Bronte and the city, with planning work already underway to deliver it,” Mr Constance said.

“Labor axed 1500 weekly bus services during their 16 years of neglect; they can’t be trusted when it comes to delivering basic public transport services.”

“The NSW Liberals & Nationals have introduced 32,000 weekly bus services across NSW since coming to Government, including thousands around Coogee.”

In addition to the direct bus, customers in Coogee will also see a boost to existing services, including:

  • Route 339 from Clovelly to the City will operate more frequently with off-peak services to run every 15 minutes, an increase from the current half-hour service.
  • Routes X73 and X74 from Coogee to the City (Museum via Eastern Distributor) will see an increase to services on either side of the peak periods.
Member for Coogee Bruce Notley-Smith said the introduction of the direct bus service was a big win for his community.

“I’m pleased to have secured this result for my community,” Mr Notley-Smith said.

“I listened to the concerns of locals, I pushed my Government for a solution and this result is a great one with a new direct bus between Bronte and the CBD.”

The additional services in Coogee comes only months after the NSW Government introduced thousands more to the area, headlined by the 24/7 turn up and go 333.

The revamped 333 rapid service provides capacity for 29,000 extra passengers a week, including 10,000 on weekends.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby swtt » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:54 pm

The press release says nothing about when these will happen.

Or were these already budgeted for in the 2018-9 budget papers?

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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby citaro393 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:44 pm

If the main concern is travel to the City then catching the 379 and interchanging at BJI is quicker anyway. Especially in the peaks when there is heavy traffic along Oxford St. To compare, the T4 from BJI to Martin Place is an 8 min trip while the 333 in the peaks is timetabled 20-30 minutes. Even with the interchange the train is quicker.
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